Carbon fiber trekking poles

“For those of you out there that have them, how do they hold up against scrapes, nics and dings from rock etc? Do you like them better than aluminum poles? How do you like the grip material, Cork vs. Foam?
last edited: 3/24/06 10:57:03 AM”

“. .interested in the answers here as well.


I have had an entry level pair of EMS poles for several years. They see a huge amount of granite. I have used them to jam in crack while ascending/descending I have used the butt end (top of hands grips) to stablize a fall, whack rocks etc.


There is almost no green paint left on them.

The "twist" closure on the telescope has failed a couple of times.

Once under heavy load in severe circumstances. I planted it hard when going down on ice with a full winter pack. It collapsed and I broke my hand.



So . .. .


Do carbons withstand this kind of abuse??”

“My (aluminum) poles have collapsed at inopportune times, too. I also don't find any use for the "spring/shock absorber" setting. I'm thinking about getting a pair that physically lock open, not with a friction lock.

However, I probably won't go to fiber-type poles. Heard from people in person and on here that once they fray a little from rock abrasions you easily get very painful and invisible splinters. I believe it, I've had the same happen to me from frayed fiberglass (damaged mini-golf putter).”

“Jimmy San needs to answer here. I believe his are carbon fiber poles and I know he made them himself.”

“Oh yeah, I remember he posted about them. If I remember right, they ended up costing about the same as store-bought poles, LOL. But not knocking the effort, its always cool to build your own stuff even if it does cost more.”

“The "twist" closure on the telescope has failed a couple of times.

I switched over to Black Diamond poles for that reason. They don't use a twist locking system. So far so good, but I haven't had the poles long enough to know if the flip lock system is any better.”

“I think they cost a bit more, but I could be wrong.”

“no carbon here, but i have both the twisty kind and the pin-lock kind.

both have failed me once or twice.”

“With me, they'd be carbon flabber after couple hundred miles. BD has the best locks.”

“both mine are lekki BTW”

“Thanx everyone!.......Yeah techntrech, my concern was mostly not the strenght but having them "fray" from abrasion.”

“Ok, one more question....What grip material is your favorite?”

“I had a pair of MSR carbon fiber poles for a while. One snapped like a twig when it got caught between two rocks as I was running down the trail. I just use aluminum ones now.”

“I made a set of these about 6 months ago. Look at the thread I created to discuss the project:

http://thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/40886,-1.php

... perhaps it wasn't 6 months ago. I forget.

Anyway, these poles have been on "trial" mode for a while now. I do have some observations.

First, it took some getting used to the fact that they were fixed length. I was used to a pole that I could adjust to use for pitching tarps, etc. My poles are too long for this, however so far I have not found this to be the disadvantage I thought.

I thought the poles would not be as strong at aluminum poles but I think I was wrong. I have avoided some nasty falls and the poles flex nicely and have never showed signs of breaking (almost 2-3" of bend at times and they easily held).

I love, love, love the feel of them and they are easily the best trekking poles I have ever used. A lot of people hike while carrying trekking poles as opposed to hiking using trekking poles if you get my meaning. Used properly trekking poles take a lot of weight off my knees, put more miles in my day, and give me more control especially on descents in rocky areas. I feel like I have 4 legs when I hike with them, although it did take some practice to get the use of them down to where I now don't even think about them... they just go where they need to go.

Anyway, here is a link to a photo of me using these poles in the Grand Canyon this last month:

http://www.stiglu.com/gallery/0603grandcanyon/0603_GrandCanyon_019_640

OK...

So the poles did get scuffed up a bit. I had the baskets on them because I have used them snowshoeing (where they worked well). They performed wonderfully. The greatest challenge was getting them on the airplane. I taped them together and the airline people put them in a plastic bag. They went through the baggage machine without a hitch.

I also have a set of CF poles that I bought. They are collapsable, however there is no significant weight advantage over the aluminum poles that I have.

My new home-made CF poles are keepers. I am still thinking of lowering them 1" or so, but probably won't. They are the perfect height for me, I think, and while I might want to take that extra 1" off for uphill I sure would wish it was there going down...

I think there are two reasons the design has been a success for me. First, the poles are very light because they are very simple. I would make them lighter if I could but this brings me to my second point. I think that having all the weight in the handles (versus the shaft of the poles) is key. Each swing of the pole takes up energy and the more weight the further down the pole you go the more energy you will use. It's like the reason why racing cycle tires are so light on the rims. These poles flit almost effortlessly as I hike and I never get tired of them.

They are keepers, for me anyway.”

“Oh, there wasn't a significant cost savings over the store-bought versions I have seen. That said, I have never used these store-bought poles I copied so I don't know how I would feel about them if I owned a pair. They are lighter in the spec sheet than mine. I think my CF poles are thicker than theirs, but that would make them stronger. I guess I am never happy with weight of my gear but I couldn't find better CF stock that was thinner and had the specs I wanted.

I think from a cost perspective it was break-even but I don't make my own gear because of cost (even though it is generally a lot less expensive). These poles are MINE. There are many like them but these poles are MINE. You know what I mean... :)

I do love the cork handles, btw. They don't get "greasy". I am not a fan of EVA handles for this reason, although I admit that they are a LOT lighter.

The straps are OK. I might replace them. Some ppl use spectra cord for this and I think they are nuts (sorry to those that read this that use spectra cord for this purpose). If you fall and have to put that much weight on the strap I want more than a cheese-slicer worth of cord around the top of my wrist thank you.

One thing I wish. I wanted to use tapered shafts but I could only find them in the form of fishing rod blanks. These were too expensive and hard to find. So I used straight shafts. If I used tapered shafts I think I could have used a thinner wall of CF and had more strength. I don't think there would be as much flex in the pole, however. I am not convinced the flex in the poles is a "bad" thing.

...and last month someone smarter than I pointed out that what I basically made was a set of ski poles. So be it! It was a fun project :)
last edited: 3/24/06 1:16:17 PM”

“"A lot of people hike while carrying trekking poles as opposed to hiking using trekking poles if you get my meaning. Used properly trekking poles take a lot of weight off my knees, put more miles in my day, and give me more control especially on descents in rocky areas."

YES! It amazes me the number or people that hold hiking poles like ski poles - with a death grip. Yes you need the death grip when you are on skis, but hiking pole use is completely different. Put the weight on the strap, strap in the palm of your hand and around the back of your hand, not around your wrist.”

“Just started using trekking poles last year. Was trying to keep the weight down on the rest of my rig so it made no sense to me to go aluminum. They're holding up pretty good w/no abrasions. Mt biggest fear has been getting one caught between 2 rocks and breaking it. Done it a few times to a degree and they're rather springy. The same force on aluminum would probably have hopelessly bent it. As far as dings, etc. I just try to avoid waking rocks and trees with them. Now if one of my partners gets out of hand, that's a different story.”

“my shiny cf poles are scuffed up something awful from hiking in the grand canyon. adds character. new looking gear isn't nearly as cool. The surface of the shafts I bought is coated with a scrim of glass for gloss effect. It has no significant weight implication but does scuff easily.”

“You got to beat your gear up for a year before it even starts looking good.”

“IMO carbon fiber treking poles would be great on some trails. Just like with ski poles the weight you need to be concerned with is swing weight. that translates into the amount of effort that it takes to get the pole out and into position. That said I think the perfect trail for carbon poles would be a nice open trail without obstructions that you could really get into a rythm on. The same type of trail that I think a ultralight backpack belongs on. If you are hiking on rugger trails with blow down, rock scrambles, loos talus etc they probably wouldn't last long.
Carbon Fiber poles do not take side load impacts very well especially a sharp pointed one. This would lead to fiber breakage and eventual failure.

Of course this is just my opinion it ain't worth much.”

“I know that when they first came out, there was a lot of concern about "notching". It had to do with your ski edge's putting a small cut across the lower part of the pole and the pole then breaking at that point. Most manufactures put a couple wraps of fiberglass I think, around the lower part of the pole.

I suspect it may be a toss up between carbon and aluminum. I love the swing weight of carbon, but I really use the adjustable feature with my aluminum poles a bunch.

I have broken two lower shafts. One break would have happened with a carbon pole too, the other I doubt.

Now that I think about it, didn't someone make a adjustable pole that had a aluminum upper and carbon lower?

Great job on the custom poles Pitts! Classy!
last edited: 3/25/06 9:43:39 AM”

“http://www.life-link.com/llpoles_main.htm

To lazy for HTML this morning.

Ooooooo, I hear new gear calling...the Guide Ultra Light looks sweet!
last edited: 3/25/06 9:51:45 AM”

“Talk about snapping poles....I snapped off the tip of a Leki pole while inline skating with them 3 years ago. Just finished a 30 km course and was returning home (another 7 kms)...and was so tired that I didn't see the grilled sewer cover. Yep, one of the poles got caught in the grill and it's tip snapped off. :o( My best set of poles too (Tour Vario)...they have twist locking with cock handles.”

“Call Leki and they will repair or replace them.”

“Not just the tip....about 1" above the tip...right below the basket. I just glued on a rubber tip attachment and use it for hiking....can't use it for skiing or x-country skiing anymore.”

“they have twist locking with cock handles.”
stanlee

I could say something but I'll be nice.”

“"swing weight"???

When you are using poles the right way you don't swing them much at all, they either stay behind you (going up or flat) or stay in front of you (going down). Very little swing. They shouldn't go past your feet. Catching falls and irregular terrain change that of course, but I'm talking about normal terrain where you get a rhythm going.”

“Stanlee, I fell thru the ice walking across a river and snapped my Leki pole right below the bottom adjuster. I called them to buy a replacement part and they said "No problem they have a lifetime warranty."

Swing weight refers to the amount of energy that it takes to get the pole back out in position out front. Even if they do not go back past your feet when you are rolling down a trail you have to flick them back out ahead of you.”

“I very much notice the weight difference in the shafts... "swing weight" which is a very accurate description of what I was trying to say. Having most of the weight in your hands just has a different feel downhill, uphill, and on flat terrain. I can't say for sure that's the reason why but I'll say that that is MY reasoning...”

“Thanks LtHiker....I didn't know Leki had life-time warranty. I still have their infomation cards (the ones manufactures hang on their products) somewhere in my room.

Treebait...very nice catch. :o)”

“Looks like an interesting project, nice pics of the Grand Canyon too.”

“I'm thinking about getting a pair of these..
[url]
http://www.leki.com/html/trek_ultralite_2141.asp
last edited: 3/28/06 1:18:41 AM”

“"Swing weight refers to the amount of energy that it takes to get the pole back out in position out front. Even if they do not go back past your feet when you are rolling down a trail you have to flick them back out ahead of you."

That sounds just like the mis-use of hiking poles I've been talking about. You shouldn't be swinging them out in front of you with each step. They should stay behind you during level and uphill use. The only time they go past your feet is when you are changing from level/uphill to a downhill position, and vice versa. Is that what you are talking about?”

“Damn, am I gonna get another ticket?

That is the most unnatural movement I have tried in years. Perhaps I have been doing it wrong the last 12 years, but it works for me.

I'm a swinger and proud of it.

Do you x-c ski techntrek?
last edited: 3/28/06 8:16:55 PM”

“Hehe. I put in a lot of time when I first starting using trekking poles studying how to use them and like mtnsteve I have my own way but the way I use them is mostly like TT I think. It has become so instinctive that I don't even think about it so it's hard to build a mental picture of how I use them now that I am trying.

He is how I use them (get ready to give me a ticket):

Pole length is fixed to a few inches below my armpits. My poles are not adjustable, as I said earlier. I have never changed the length of the poles (even when I had adjustable poles) for uphill or downhill.

I put my hand into the bottom of the strap so my hands "hang" in the straps with the strap over the top of my hand. I lightly pinch the handles between my thumb and index finger and only use my hands for control/positioning and pulling the pole forward for the next step. I let the weight hang on the straps and not on my grip on the handle.

When walking on level ground the poles "drag" behind me (not literally) at about a 45 degree angle... that is why the length is about 3" below my armpit... to give this approximate angle. Each arm pushes counter to the movement of the foot. That is the pole comes forward to the position where there is no foot ... not as far as where the foot would be... the poles are basically behind me the entire time... it's just the pole that advances moves in counter-stride to the foot it supports.

Man, I am doing a crappy job typing this up.

Uphill is basically the same motion except I put more weight onto the straps. I'll also tend to grab the handles more and "dig" my way up hills. I'll use the poles to pull some of the weight onto my upper body. I love the feeling of "digging" my way uphill. I don't know if this is the right way to use the poles but it's damn fun for me.

Downhill is where the poles give me the most value. The poles ride in front of me and again move counter to the motion of the foot they support. At least in my mind I think they do. It's so instinctive now that I can't really picture it. Anyway, the motion is like having four legs. Again, I let the pole support a fair amount of weight. I feel totally confident with my trekking poles going downhill. Once I found a way that worked for me I was "hooked".

Oh well.

I don't x-c ski...but would really like to learn. I mostly snowshoe. I am told that the way I size the poles is how one that x-c skis would do it. I picked up the way I use the poles from a web site somewhere ages ago on using trekking poles and it works for me.”

“That sounds about right.

I find that how you hold the poles can make a huge difference.

The way I was taught to hold a pole is like this.....

Your hand goes up through the strap and down, so it lays across the top of your wrist and comes out between your thumb and index finger

When you are holding the poles correctly, the weight is placed on your wrist(the strap is across the top of your wrist) The pole can almost dangle between your fingers.

Man thats hard to describe...did it make sense?”

“yep! perfectly!”

“Jimmy san - no ticket for you. That's how its described in all the "how-to" sites I've read about poles. For straps and poles. Little "swinging" involved, all the weight on the straps, all your fingers do really is to guide the pole between each step.

With all the talk about swing weight I assumed ya'll were swinging them out ahead, walking past them, and then swinging them again. Like you have to do with a hiking staff. Now there is some swing weight.”

“My two cents, with the straps, Mtn Steve is describing the safest way to hold your poles. Held this way they fall away from your hand allowing you to catch yourself in a fall. If you just stick your hand thru the strap and grab the handle the pole stays in your hand even if you let go. This was the biggest cause of broken thumbs in downhill skiing.”