Separation of Church and State

“I hear the refrain that the separation of church and state is not in the Bill of Rights and I see it repeated here. The words are not in the Bill of Rights, but the principle is. It's definitely part of the Jeffersonian understanding of the first amendment.”

“I thought that's what made Plymouth rock.”

“You can't talk sense into historical revisionists. Kinda like certain southern scumbags and their take on the civil war.”

“Er, you mean the war of Northern Aggression.”

“Why does their have to be a separation of church and stake? If they served T-bones maybe I'd go to church more often.”

“Separation of Church and Stake! Never! We can leave our church growers unprotected against vampires! (especially the one's that don't do holy water).”

“Zac: I think you have a great idea for a church fund raiser. The sign might read:

T-bone dinner!
No more spaghetti plates!
Fight the separation of church and steak!
last edited: 3/24/06 3:34:28 PM”

“My only beef about 'the separation of church and stake' is my church (local bar) has to pay taxes.”

“It's definitely part of the Jeffersonian understanding of the first amendment.

That's not at all true. I assume you are referring to Jefferson's mention of the phrase "separation of church and state". If so, perhaps you should read in context what he said pedxing.

The Danbury letter response addresses matters for the state forcing religion on the people, not the other way around.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=9”

“Most folks do not really understand the phrase "separation between church and state". They automatically take it to mean there can be no religion in government. That's not true at all and that's not what it meant. It merely meant/means that the state cannot "legally force" any particular religion on the populace, such as if you don't believe the state-endorsed then you could be prosecuted and thrown in jail. But it wasn't meant to take references to religion OUT of government, but to only make it to where one isn't legally bound by a state religion. This was to avoid what they just came from in Europe, where the church and state were essentially "one", which is wrong, icky, and bad. It was NOT meant to take religious symbols or sayings or whatever, no matter what the religion, out of government. Yet over and over and over people continue to mis-use the phrase.”

“Buck, read the wallbuilders link above. It details the history a bit of what you just said.”

“Yet over and over and over people continue to mis-use the phrase.”

Kind of like "The right to bear arms", eh?”

“The right to bear arms means the government cannot keep ordinary citizens from owning guns. It was put in place so that they would overthrow the government should the need arise. How is that misused?”

“Long sleeves should be mandatory?”

“So Sarge - if I understand you, you've changed your story from "there is no separation of church and state in the constitution" to "the separation of church and state in the constitution doesn't mean what the Supreme Court said it meant in 1947."

It's no longer Constitution 101, to an understanding of the Constitution superior to the understand of the Supreme Court Justices in 1947.”

“pedxing - It is a well known fact that the 1947 ruling was a change in logic of the intent of the Constitution. In 2 years of chatting with you, I hope I never gave you the impression that the standard for me was something other than what the founders originally intended.

In reference to "you've changed your story from "there is no separation of church and state in the constitution" to "the separation of chur..." - Read again in context - as I was speaking to somebody's statement on here about a specific (theirs) interpretation of that phrase as it relates to the Constitution. I didn't change any of my views. The context of the conversation changed.
last edited: 3/24/06 5:00:42 PM”

“My gut instinct tells me that the separation of church and state increases the level of belief and religious participation.

And my gut tells me that this has something to do with the differences in belief between the United States and Europe. European countries traditionally were somewhat monolithic nationally in terms of their state or accepted religions.

The United States took a hands off approach. Basic human nature would turn people off to beliefs that they were forced into, resulting in decreased belief in Europe and increased belief in the U.S.

This, of course, is highly simplistic and doesn't explain away beliefs in places like the Middle East. Perhaps Middle Eastern nations rally around religion as opposition to dominant outside forces. So it is more cultural and political than belief-driven.

So, as a believer, I strongly support the separation of church and state because it CAN create a climate in which religion can be more successful.

I also believe that any state religion in America is not likely to be my own - Catholic - and I would rather not have to follow the Southern Baptist rules of proper conduct.

And even if we made Roman Catholicism the offical state religion of the United States, it would be a God-awful day when the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops had a chance to translate their less-than-efficient and less-than-moral management style to the U.S. government.”

“rl has the idea:

I also believe that any state religion in America is not likely to be my own - Catholic - and I would rather not have to follow the Southern Baptist rules of proper conduct.

And even if we made Roman Catholicism the offical state religion of the United States, it would be a God-awful day when the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops had a chance to translate their less-than-efficient and less-than-moral management style to the U.S. government.

See folks, this is easy. "Separation of church and state" in the constitution refers to 1 thing and 1 thing only - the inability of the Federal government to establish a national religion.

It is NOT the inability of the states to establish a state religion.

It is NOT the inability of Wal-Mart greeters to say "Merry Christmas" when you enter the story.

It is NOT the inability of the President to say "I love Jesus Christ and He directs my decisions."

It is NOT the inablity of Senators to have a prayer breakfast.

It is NOT the inability of tax money to be paid to people of religion to help the needy.”

“"It is NOT the inability of the states to establish a state religion"

well, i hope no one tries to establish one”

“The 14th amendment talks to that.”

“You're right Violin. I was still in "original intent of the founding father's" mode - as we were discussing the Bill of Rights.
last edited: 3/25/06 6:25:36 PM”

“Sarge ,the cathoholics are worse than uncle sam abramoff?”

“This country was founded on the one principle

For individuals to keep more money in the pursuit of Happiness There were no poor founding fathers

The separation of Church and State was to break up that monopoly that could squeeze the maximum amount of money from the individual

It didnt work-or we al be tithing 30% PLUS”

“Sorry ,I can't chat,I'm doing taxes. One for me and one for themand themand them....I wonder if we have more tax laws than we have 'Themands'?”

“salebored - Fess up. What kind of meds are you on?”

“Too many numbers not enough drugs.”

“crazy people don't try to act crazy - if they're really crazy, they try to act normal - that way they have the element of surprise - that is, unless they're not smart enough to know they're crazy - then they act crazy”

“thats just crazy talk”

“The day we have a "state" religion, is the day I use my right to bear arms.”

“me too Buddha Bear”

“Sarge , was that a projection of self or another attack on the truth? BB, one can move to another state and maybe some silly fences like the southern border nonsense will separate you from the faithful and their state that is ; of, for and by the illogical.”

“I never attack truth salebored, I embrace it. Once again, I was being honest. Why would you think it might not be honest? Perhaps you have a poor judge of character?

Running away when the Constitution is broken is cowardice and a slap in the face to the millions of people who fought for you freedoms.
last edited: 3/26/06 3:21:48 PM”

“http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/07/obama-gop-doesnt-own-faith-and-values/

I'm sure the "separation of church and staters" will be going after this church. Here comes the ACLU!

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! LOL”

“Not found.”

“Don't have to find it...Libbies have always been given a pass at holding POLITICAL EVENTS at religious events.

Just like the Moslems (who still hold the monopoly on a religion killing Americans) they get a pass on government supported religion. Hey with the footbaths (or as I call them urinals) to other perks, libbies and terrorists get a break from the American Criminal Leadership Union”

“Piles.”

“Firey little bastard this morning, eh?”

“Sarges' link is under one of the piles. Shovels Libbylox.”

“Thanks, the moral high ground's always good for a LMAO.”

“Piling it high does not really create high ground.”

“I've had some smelly piles that got a convent high.”

“Were those conventional piles?

Can we separate church and state with a crowbar or will we need a shovel?”

“Obama invokes religion more than any of his Democratic competitors.

This guy is scary. I'd almost rather Hillary be president than this guy.”

“You're gona have the church and big bizz all over you no matter where your vote goes.”

“When does Walmart open BIG BOX churches in their BIG BOX stores?

Got any insider trading tips, O'Wise Guy?”

“Easy, when a religion tax replaces the exemption and goes directly to guarding the holy land from the Islamic bad guys.”

“Brilliant!!

Tax believers!”

“They built a HUGE   (WASP denomination withheld to protect your tender ears)     just as the Ethiopian Famine was getting cranked up some years ago.”

“Where are the Separation of Church and Stater's on the Obama thing? Their silence is their message.”