Scientific proof that pray doesn't work

“'pray' doesn't work?
Try praying.”

“yeah, i kliked befor I profread it”

“troll”

“LMAO”

“A similar study was posted last year on trailtalk, to which I posted that a similar study to this comes out about every year. It's like clockwork.

Too bad the premise of "does prayer work" is incorrect.”

“Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural

But isn't the supernatural "designed" to explain Science?”

“To save yourself time, scroll down to my first post on this thread from last year:

http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/37851,-1,1.php”

““I find it ammusing when, every couple of years, there is a "scientific" study which measures the affect of prayers on healing. There is usually no correlation between prayer and healing rates.

What the scientists fail to understand is that prayer is not meant to cause God to do something. We are not going to change God's mind or our destiny by praying. What prayer does do is allow us to have a relationship with God. I look at it like this: God has a plan for us, and us wanting a relationship with Him is hopefully part of that plan. By praying, we are fulfilling that plan by demonstrating our want to be with Him.

The Bible says that if you pray in His name, He will answer your prayers. That isn't to presume that He will answer it the way you want. The point of it is that God has a perfect way for us, and if we pray following that "plan", our prayer will be answered. If we pray discounting that plan, that is, we pray only for our own wants, things will always turn out for His plan regardless.

Therefore, Geo's hidden agenda here with an ironic thread title really just demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the purpose of prayer.

We are to come to God with our "petitions". When Jesus asked God to "take this cup from me", He meant if it is God's will.

Thy will be done.”
Sarge
1:05:36 PM
4/25/05
^^ Note the date. "Yes", I'm amazing.
last edited: 3/30/06 2:02:44 PM”

“I will neither confirm nor deny that fact.”

“What I want to know is what did these researchers use as a control? Probably a lawyer or a rat or something like that.”

“or a public school teacher”

“every couple of years, there is a "scientific" study which measures the affect of prayers on healing.

I have yet to see such a study.

What the scientists fail to understand is that prayer is not meant to cause God to do something.

What Sarge fails to understand is that the Christian Taliban do indeed insist that prayer "works", and they should be slapped down like the mangy dogs they are, just like with the ID=science issue.”

“Sarge, what about some poor little kid who has been abused since she/he was a year old? Then, winds up in a box by the time she's all of seven. What "divine" plan was cast for that kid?”

“Bow Wow!!”

“Mutt

I have yet to see such a study.

Study: Prayer doesn't affect heart patients (from pitts' link)

What Sarge fails to understand is that the Christian Taliban do indeed insist that prayer "works", and they should be slapped down like the mangy dogs they are, just like with the ID=science issue.

What you fail to understand is that prayer does "work", but not from the self-centered view that non-Christians such as yourself view it. Prayer isn't designed to glorify humans, it's designed to glorify God. Sure, there are many people who call themself Christian who make up their own rules, but Christians who keep the Bible in context don't believe that God will change His mind and make things better for you than they would have been otherwise just because you ask Him too. It's nowhere in the Bible. What the Bible does say is that is you believe (accept Jesus as your savior) and have a pure heart (one that lives for God) you will receive what you ask for (because what you ask for by definition will be good - which God already pre-ordained to happen anyways).
last edited: 3/30/06 3:00:17 PM”

“What I am hearing is that when you pray for something that God isn't necessarily going to give you what you want the way you wanted it. I don't see that as being in disagreement with this study. In fact the study sort of proves that if you pray to God that statistically you won't get the thing you asked for. The two views seem consistent to me.
last edited: 3/30/06 2:57:09 PM”

““Sarge, what about some poor little kid who has been abused since she/he was a year old? Then, winds up in a box by the time she's all of seven. What "divine" plan was cast for that kid?” - Treebeard

I don't know, but I can guess - Perhaps her divine plan was that somebody like you would question why she was there and somebody like me would tell you to read my previous post because the answer lies in there and you would have an open mind for once and actually read what is there and understand and come to know God and become saved and end up in Heaven which would make God very happy. Just a guess, but perhaps not.”

“pitts' - You suck at trolling.”

“If one chooses to believe that prayer does not work, then so be it. That is ones loss. I know for a fact that prayer does work, I have seen it work many times. There is not one human being on this entire planet that can prove or convince me otherwise.”

“Hehe, I know you didn't just figure that out.”

“TrailKicker67 - Weeks before I was saved, I prayed to God (whom I didn't really believe in at the time). I asked for a miracle - something that was absolutely statistically impossible. God answered that prayer. It was a prayer of healing for my dog. But, God used that prayer for His glory. It was partially because of that that I became saved. I don't believe that God just "answers" healing prayers on a whim - but everything He does He does for a reason. So, in a sense, all prayer is answered - just not always the way we want it to --- Thank God!”

“Was that before or after you came back from the dead?”

“...oh and was that the same dog that mountainspeak had? they looked the same to me...”

“Like I said ... trolling not your thing. Nice try though. Its too bad how no topic like this can be discussed seriously on here. It's like talking to giggly 4th graders explaining the birds and the bees.”

“So, your answer as to why this kid was dealt such a sh_tty hand lies with me not accepting God (as you see God). First off, I don't believe in Jesus Christ as anything more than a man in YOUR bible. Sorry.

I don't believe in heaven or hell. Sorry.
And, if this is the answer as to why this kid's life is nothing short of horrible, then YOUR God has a lot to answer for!”

“ha!”

“every couple of years, there is a "scientific" study which measures the affect of prayers on healing.

Again, I have yet to see such a study measuring the "affect" of prayer.

but Christians who keep the Bible in context don't believe that God will change His mind and make things better for you than they would have been otherwise just because you ask Him too.

Dodge. "Prayer works" has been shouted out from the rooftops for quite some time by those who wouldn't consider you (perhaps rightly) a true christian. Just because you say they ain't xtian, don't mean they ain't.”

“I don't believe in heaven or hell. Sorry.

Wow Treebeard, you.......nevermind, forget it.
last edited: 3/30/06 3:40:41 PM”

“Mutt - You're right. It's people who make up their own religion who are the "true" Christians. I stand corrected.”

“Does this mean Chavez won't be assasinated?”

“Exactly, Sarge - Christianity can mean just about whatever you want it to. There's no "correct" version. (That's what you get when you believe in a fairy tale.)”

“"What the scientists fail to understand is that prayer is not meant to cause God to do something. "

many christians fail to understand the same thing. so many times in the church i used to go to, it seemed all i ever heard was how god gave them this that and the other or cured this that and the other, all in the context of answering prayer.

on a similiar note, ya ever notice how the average church-goer is somewhat more affluent than the average person of the general population at large? i wonder if anyones ever done a study on that”

“many christians fail to understand the same thing. so many times in the church i used to go to, it seemed all i ever heard was how god gave them this that and the other or cured this that and the other, all in the context of answering prayer.

Crash - Like I said above - God answers all prayers - just not necessarily how we want. That doesn't mean He answers them because you prayed. They were going to get answered anyways. Prayer is something God asks us to do to maintain a relationship with us, but He will only answer them "our" way if we ask for what is already deemed "best", that is, something God already determined to be for His glory. So they are right when they say "God answered their prayer". That doesn't mean that God changed history to suit their needs. Prayer is for our relationship with God, not so that God can be our "Genie in a bottle".”

“im not arguing against that.

except for this "they are right when they say "God answered their prayer".

im sure that many of them believe that god "changed history". but thats the cynic in me.

you and i may be able to carry on a philosophical discussion about these things, but i think this would be beyond alot of the people who are religious.”

“except for this "they are right when they say "God answered their prayer".

im sure that many of them believe that god "changed history". but thats the cynic in me.

I'm confused, are you saying that you don't believe God "changes history" because of their prayer? If so, we agree. Their prayers are answered, but they were answered before they prayed, therefore no history was changed b/c of it. (if you read Lewis already, that'll make perfect sense)”

“yes, i agree with you about this.”

“Bridges 4 sale!!!”

“When I was back there in seminary school, there was a person there
Who put forth the proposition, that you can petition the lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer, petition the lord with prayer
You cannot petition the lord with prayer!”

“This study was done in New York. You ought to know that praying doesn't work there. After all, Hillary Clinton got elected Senator.”

“I met an Irish Nun on Halloween while in college. The whole time I was buying her drinks I was praying:

God I wanna #&%!$ her! God I wanna #&%!$ her!

And my prayers were answered!

God sometimes works in mysterious ways. And sometimes he works through Minderasers.”

“Wow Treebeard, you.......nevermind, forget it.
last edited: 3/30/06 4:40:41 PM”
TrailKicker67
4:38:21 PM

Feel free to speak your mind. You shouldn't bother printing ambiguous crap like this...”

“Sorry Treebeard. I don't care to get into a war of words with anyone.”

“tk, is it really that hard to believe that someone doesnt believe in heaven or hell?”

“Jimmy san... Is the many worlds theory still in vogue?

IE...If one is "aware" of collapsing the wave function, wouldn't one end up in a reality where what you want/expect to happen, happens?

Wouldn't that be considered a prayer being answered.
last edited: 3/30/06 5:56:35 PM”

“thats why it seems religious people are from a different planet!”

““This study was done in New York. You ought to know that praying doesn't work there. After all, Hillary Clinton got elected Senator.” Prosecutor

Could also mean there is a God, and she's a Democrat...LOL
last edited: 3/30/06 6:11:17 PM”

“I think prayer if is a form of positive thinking and I heard there was a study that proved there was a small percentage of people that became better when they were ill from either prayer or positive thinking.

It's said that depressed people die younger than non depressed people, so maybe that also proves being positive and praying with the thought you will survive or get better does work to an extent.

Hey, if you are really ill, you pray, you think positive thoughts, you do whatever you can no matter how slim the chances are that it will work.”

“"It seems, Lord", says Fats, "it's always the same, old men or bright-eyed youth, It's always easier to sell them some #&%!$ than it is to give them the truth." -shel silverstein

i predict 200 replies to this thread.”

“Mutt - I've been trying to figure out why you keep emphasizing the word "affect". It's the correct word, in case you were thinking it was supposed to be "effect". Not sure what the big thing was you had with that word. Maybe you could explain to us.”