Wow! Intense feelings on illegal immigr ation

“Are you trying to make some kind of point salebored? If so I am not getting it. Who are the 5% you speak of? Hollywood producers?”

“The guys who rent these slaves to employers.”

“Legal immigration sits at a number of roughly 1 million per year. I am just an average citizen but I know of two families who had relatives enter the country legally, and have no plans to leave now that they are here.

Here's another pdf which purports to show numbers of legal immigrants from 1999 until 2003.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/Factsheet_102904.pdf

"Temporary non-immigrant admissions totaled 27.8 million in 2003". Supposedly most of these admissions are for tourism and business purposes, but who knows how many overstay their temporary status? As I said, I am just an average citizen and I know of at least four individuals with this status.”

“Salebored, "slaves"? Please provide specifics, not just rhetoric.”

“Is there a ceremony to become a Noahide?”

“bearmagnet, talk to DeadNBloated, the most recent TT incarnation of Nigal...I'm sure he could enlighten you in that area.”

“Here are some thoughts from the people on the front lines of this mess, the Border Patrol It's got to be tough for them to keep moral high.
last edited: 4/30/06 2:34:51 PM”

“This country was born of 'slaves' and will not survive with out them. The illegals can be dumped over the side at any time they are no longer needed. Go look at the 'flop houses' they live in , the wages and the underground lifestyles, the fact they are afraid to #&%!$ about anything and for sure won't sue anyone .Is that not a 'SLAVE'?”

“salebored, who FORCED them to come here? I know all about the conditions they live in, they are literally my next-door neighbors. I don't think I have advocated that in any of my posts, if you will carefully re-read you will see that I believe that the creation of an underclass is a bad thing, for their sake as well as ours.”

“"the most recent TT incarnation of Nigal"

Pardon me? Do we know each other? I've only went by Nigal for years now. This is my first fun handle in years.”

“D-N-B I don't know what to say. You have left me speechless, in awe of your necrotic inanity. But you are a dead-n-bloated Noahide, yes?”

“Nigal,
Please tell us about your experiences with ceremonial scrotal sheering....

Is that an ole dirt bagging trick or what?”

“"Is that an ole dirt bagging trick or what?”

No! Ceremonial scrotal sheering was a gift to all man kind and is to be freely and liberally indulged in!

Free the scrotum!!!”

“The 5% issue started this. California has 30%
illegal population in its' southern half. I have been very close to it as I have built spec. houses for the last 20 years. I'm 63 and gave it up ,because the fun is totally gone when every subs crews are all(ALL) illegals. The risk and cost of gringoes that I had worked with for years just got too high.”

“thanks for the clarification.......”

“Interesting web site RichB. You can almost see those guys fuming.”

“"These are the times that try men's soles. The scrotal shearer and the Spirit Coyote will, in this crisis, shrink from the removal of his/her own toenail/scrotal hair; but he/she that stands it now deserves the love and thanks of Trail Talk contributors everywhere."”

“The illegals can be dumped over the side at any time they are no longer needed... Is that not a 'SLAVE'?”
salebored
3:41:39 PM
4/30/06

While I agree that illegal immigrants are being exploited, they are definitely not slaves. In fact, one defining factor in slavery is ownership. When something is owned, it cannot be simply thrown away. One argument for slavery in the US was that having a financial stake in the well being of slaves, the owner would be more constrained in their treatment of slaves than the Northern Industrialists who, having no ownership, would work slaves to death. The economic relationship is indeed closer to the relationship between Northern Industrialists and the newly freed slaves, than it is to slaves and slave owners.

I don't have an ideological point here. It's just that the use of the term "slave" has primarily emotive value here - and does not capture the reality of the situation well at all.”

“While the illegal workers are undoubtedly being exploited, they are here voluntarily, sometimes at great personal risk, and have no desire to leave - despite living conditions that Americans would find substandard. Apparently the illegals believe that they are better off in their "slavery" here, than in their "freedom" at home in Mexico, or wherever they came from.”

“Someone is owned when he or she can be deported with a phone call. Sorry I used slave ,but mistakes sometimes are the best teachers.”

“I will ask you one more time, before I ignore you forever...WHO FORCED THEM TO COME HERE??? Isn't their voluntary entrance into the American workforce, despite their admittedly poor working/living conditions, sort of a refutation of your silly slavery argument?”

“American natives were enslaved and didn't have to cross a river. Besides, the use of 'slave', as I said ,'is to spike the punch of conversation'.”

“you still have not answered my very simple question. Your leftist/anarchist rhetoric only serves to make you look naive.”

“Leftist--no wonder you don't understand slavery.”

“slavery - involuntary captivity and enforced work.

illegal immigrant workers - desperate endeavor to gain a better life for one's family than what is possible in one's home country.

Do you see any difference there at all? Is it America's fault that conditions and wages are so horrible in Mexico?”

“Thanks Mr. Bush!

”

“Of course, I see that. Mexico is part of america( one mans slavery is another mans' continent) but yes the US is in part at fault for allowing Mex. to get in the shape it's in. But , our powers felt it more important to drag billions half way accross the globe rather than do something about it.
It was done in part to avoid a confrontation with this oncomming issue. Yes , reading the PNAC gives a clue that this present power has very complicated reasons for all that they do.”

“After reading that article about the Border Patrol, you can't blame them for being angry and frustrated. They put their lives on the line each day in what amounts to a war zone, but without the true support to win. It makes it seem like a thankless job, but after 911 securing the border shouldn't be this way. I'm sure they see every illegal alien as possibly the one that threw a rock, bottle or even shot at them at some point to break into the country.”

“We have to learn again and again. The war on drugs, terror, immigration, corporate crime or any other'war on'is uphill when you don't really want to win. Too many americans would be really hurt by winning any of the above. Dumping all the prisons would destroy thousands of cushy jobs. Unemployed judges and court people standing in the park waiting to be picked up for the day. the military building instead of destroying out of boredom. CEO's of companies without healthcare insurance. Drug dealers selling vacuum cleaners.
The only good that would come of it is a single trip to the park and you could get a nurse,accountant,prison guard,CIA spy and Ken Lay to do your chores, if you had a really big SUV and some 38 cent a gallon gasoline.”

“It's sad that these men are out there risking life and limb for what amounts to a farce. Not many people mention or think about the job they are trying to do under difficult circumstances.”

“FAIR TAX! even if it raises the price of goods 40% it means MORE money stays here and less goes to Beanerville. And since you have to be a CITIZEN to get the refund check from Uncle Sam....Less incentive when you know it will cost MUCH more and you get no major breaks.”

“The stock market is seeing dollar signs. The labor dilution has the stock market rawkin. Interest rates can fall back with a new conception of lower inflation. Maybe, this is the long awaited news that the minimium wage can be lowered. And finally ,it was announced that Mexico will finally get 2 senators and 12 representatives.”

“Rich - I can't blame their frustration. It reminds me of years ago when I was a Mental Health Worker at a State Psychiatric Hospital. Little details like the guy who came back from duty in Iraq to find he'd been written up for being 10 minutes late 1 1/2 years earlier - reminded me of the crap we had to deal with from administration.

For a while I was the MHW in charge of an on-grounds half way house (we had no professionals on staff at the half way house). The administrators never gave us enough staff, the professionals never accepted our input into treatment plans for the patients, they never consulted us on when we got new patients, they insisted we follow strict guidelines (written by people who only had to meet with patients in their offices) on how to deal with them or restrain them if they got violent. One day, when I was off - one of the people who worked with me was on alone. They transfered a new patient into the house without warning. My supervisee followed procedures as best she could, but the patient (predictably) freaked out, punched out a mirror, locked herself in the bathroom and set her clothes on fire. My superivisee got a severe reprimand. I was po'd, I tried to tell the people in charge that they messed up and should write themselves a reprimand. It didn't fly. That was OK in the end, because it was the kick in the butt I needed to go back to school and finish my B.A.

Anyhow, years later I can still feel the frustration of being on the front lines, implimenting a half a$$ed policy, getting lots of criticism (you'd hear shistuff about staff abusing patients all the time), and working hard in the face of an administration that wants to scape-goat you. Our union leaders were lazy incompetent jerks - more concerned with protecting the jobs of dead weight stafff, than improving working conditions - and determined to let the 1/2 way house fail - because the local would lose members when patients went back to the community).”

“Ped, working with people like that is definitely "on the front lines." I wouldn't think you would want to be alone with a patient even just for legal reasons.”

“Cut-N-Paste Spam:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTBlOTVlNDFkNTYwOTg4YWYxMThkZmE2MWZhMmVjMWM=

A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
An imaginary exercise.

By Tom Tancredo

What would a day without illegal aliens really be like? Let’s try to imagine it.

On May 1, millions of illegal aliens working in meat-processing plants, construction, restaurants, hotels, and other “jobs Americans won’t do” are supposed to stay home from work to show the importance of their labor to our nation’s economy. Doubtless, there will be some inconvenience if that happens, but there is another side to the story that is not being reported.

We are talking about illegal aliens, not mere “immigrants.” If legal immigrants stopped working for a day, we would miss the services of physicians, nurses, computer programmers, writers, actors, musicians, entrepreneurs of all stripes, and some airline pilots…as well as the CEO of Google. That would be more than an inconvenience, but it won’t happen because legal immigrants are not out marching angrily for rights that are already protected by our courts.

But if illegal aliens all took the day off and were truly invisible for one day, there would be some plusses along with the mild inconveniences.

Hospital emergency rooms across the southwest would have about 20-percent fewer patients, and there would be 183,000 fewer people in Colorado without health insurance.

OBGYN wards in Denver would have 24-percent fewer deliveries and Los Angeles’s maternity-ward deliveries would drop by 40 percent and maternity billings to Medi-Cal would drop by 66 percent.

Youth gangs would see their membership drop by 50 percent in many states, and in Phoenix, child-molestation cases would drop by 34 percent and auto theft by 40 percent.

In Durango, Colorado, and the Four Corners area and the surrounding Indian reservations, the methamphetamine epidemic would slow for one day, as the 90 percent of that drug now being brought in from Mexico was held in Albuquerque and Farmington a few hours longer. According to the sheriff of La Plata County, Colorado, meth is now being brought in by ordinary illegal aliens as well as professional drug dealers.

If the “Day-Without-an-Immigrant Boycott” had been held a year earlier on May 8, 2005, and illegal alien Raul Garcia-Gomez had stayed home and did not work or go to a party that day, Denver police officer Donnie Young would still be alive and Garcia-Gomez would not be sitting in a Denver jail awaiting trial.

If the boycott had been held on July 1, 2004, Justin Goodman of Thornton, Colorado, would still be riding his motorcycle and Roberto Martinez-Ruiz would not be in prison for killing him and then fleeing the scene while driving on a suspended license.

If illegal aliens stayed home—in Mexico, Guatemala, Brazil, and 100 other countries—the Border Patrol would have 3,500 fewer apprehensions (of the 12,000 who try each day).

Colorado taxpayers would save almost $3,000,000 in one day if illegals do not access any public services, because illegal aliens cost the state over $1 billion annually according to the best estimates.

Colorado’s K-12 school classrooms would have 131,000 fewer students if illegal aliens and the children of illegals were to stay home, and Denver high schools’ dropout rate would once again approach the national norm.

Colorado’s jails and prisons would have 10-percent fewer inmates, and Denver and many other towns would not need to build so many new jails to accommodate the overcrowding.

Our highway patrol and county sheriffs would have about far fewer DUI arrests and there would be a dramatic decline in rollovers of vanloads of illegal aliens on I-70 and other highways.

On a Day Without an Illegal Immigrant, thousands of workers and small contractors in the construction industry across Colorado would have their jobs back, the jobs given to illegal workers because they work for lower wages and no benefits. (On the other hand, if labor unions continue signing up illegal workers, no one will be worrying about Joe Six-Pack’s loss. Sorry, Joe, but you forgot to tell your union business agent that your job is as important as his is.)

If it fell on a Sunday, Catholic Churches in the southwestern states might have 20-percent fewer parishioners at Mass if all illegals stayed home, but they would be back next Sunday, so the bishop’s job is not in danger. The religious leaders who send people to the marches and rallies will never fear for their jobs, because illegal aliens need their special “human-rights” advocacy and some priests and nuns seem especially devoted to that cause. The fact that most Catholics disagree with the bishops’ radicalism doesn’t seem to affect their dedication to undermining the rule of law.

All of this might be a passing colorful episode in the heated national debate over immigration policy if it weren’t for an odd coincidence: The immigration-enforcement agency responsible for locating and deporting illegal aliens is also taking the day off today. Of course, they didn’t call it a boycott. It is just (non)business as usual.”

“the professionals never accepted our input into treatment plans for the patients - pedxing

yeah, when I worked in a mental health hospital, psychologists were definitely nowhere near the status of psychiatrists, for a very good reasons (that being that the field of psychology is a dippy pseudo-science for those who couldn't get into med school). The physicians at my hospital (the psychiatrists) appreciated the psychologists to the extent they provided data and took work off their hands (i.e. lapdogs). As far as any creative/professional input into Dx's or ITPs, for example, let's just say "lololololololol".”

“Not very careful reading Mutt or careful research.

First of all, I was a mental health worker. We were the front line folks who spent the day with the patients. Secondly psychologists and social workers are professionals. If you'll note, I didn't even have a B.A. at the time.

Yeah, I did go on to grad school in Clinical Psychology - but Ph.D. programs in Clinical Psychology were much harder to get into than Medical School. Sorry to spoil your gratuitous swipe.”

“Secondly psychologists and social workers are professionals. - PedXing

I hate the dumbing down of the term "profession." The two you reference are more accurately "vocations".

I was a mental health worker. - pedxing

So you were a security agent. SAs' main responsibility is to not upset the clients. That's hardly "mental health work".

but Ph.D. programs in Clinical Psychology were much harder to get into than Medical School. - pedxing

Depends on which programs you're comparing. But really, artificially conflated exclusivism is nothing to brag about (unless you're a psychologist with self-esteem issues, apparently).

Sorry to spoil your gratuitous swipe. - pedxing

Not at all. I'm a childish jerk on this subject, and I got my rush just from posting it. Here's some more: psychology is largely driven by professorial need to publish rather than any real impetus to solve social-psychological problems. Basically they're doing all the low-intellect grunt work that psychiatrists don't have the time or desire to do!

Ah, I may be childish, but I'm also right! :-)”

“here is a letter to the editor from todays local paper in Nashville. I am leaving out the link since it gives the persons name and zipcode. His reasoning is one of the reasons why giving amnesty to the illegals is wrong. IMO by allowing illegals amnesty the govt is totally disrespecting those who went about it legally

Letters to the Editor: Many immigrants work hard for legal status

To the Editor:

My wife and I started the process for her legal immigration in December, 2003.

After applications, visas, stamps, background checks, shots, birth certificates, passports, documentation, proofs, photos, lost paperwork, references, embassy visits, physical checkups, hundreds of dollars, responsibility statements and waiting, waiting, waiting... she finally arrived legally here in Nashville in December 2004. My wife, a professional medical worker, applied for and received permanent resident status, a precursor for earning U.S. citizenship, as soon as she arrived.

More applications, documentation, loads of cash, etc., and we still have to wait the four-year minimum before she can legally raise her right hand and swear the allegiance she has felt for the United States of America since before we started this journey.

My wife works for a very famous and respected American organization that responds to natural and man-made disasters worldwide, saving lives and rebuilding shattered communities. My wife is going to be a great American. She is already an American patriot, and I am very proud of her.

My question is this: Is there any way we can take back all the money, time and effort we've spent so she can become an illegal immigrant and get a fast track to citizenship via the plans Congress is now considering?”

“amen”

“The best plan I have heard is "We will develop a fast track for Immigrants with the specific visa...the only place they can get the visa is from The US Consulate in their own country.
Any Illegals will be deported. Any business will be fined heavily.

I want to see a fining system that starts at the cost for investigation, estimated enforcement...etc etc. Say you hit them with $1 MILLION dollars an event. (Ten Aliens...$10 Million).

Even better offer a bounty for illegals, $1000.00 per Illegal arrested. No dead or alive stuff, you turn them in, the government pays you.”

“oops. need to edit this a bit.

I don't believe you can marry a non-citizen
last edited: 5/25/06 4:04:34 PM”

“Any Illegals will be deported. Any business will be fined heavily.

I want to see a fining system that starts at the cost for investigation, estimated enforcement...etc etc. Say you hit them with $1 MILLION dollars an event. (Ten Aliens...$10 Million).

Even better offer a bounty for illegals, $1000.00 per Illegal arrested. No dead or alive stuff, you turn them in, the government pays you

Meanwhile, what do those of us that live in reality do?”

“Big fines and jail time for those that hire them. Problem solved.”

“Meanwhile, what do those of us that live in reality do?

Pay for their healthcare.”

“Pay for their healthcare

Indeed. I just got ANOTHER illegal immigrant hospital bill in the mail yesterday. WHEN WILL IT END??

I can't wait until we deport them and start using tax money like it was meant to be used.

Hookers, "news stories" about Iraq, and bridges to nowhere!”

“I just got ANOTHER illegal immigrant hospital bill in the mail yesterday. WHEN WILL IT END??

I suppose if you DID actually get a bill, that would be more real for you.

Out of sight ... out of mind ...”

“Tell me, oh real one, how you are suffering from illegal immigration.

For the record, I'm not denying that there is a problem, I just LOL when people act like THEY are directly paying for it.”

“Anyone who thinks illegal immigrants don’t cost us all are just fooling themselves. Healthcare costs and educational costs for two. Then there is the rise in crime costs. I have a problem with me working my ass off so I can provide for myself and my wife with a good life and someone swims a river and is given a gold plated freeby card.”

“Tell me, oh real one, how you are suffering from illegal immigration.

For the record, I'm not denying that there is a problem, I just LOL when people act like THEY are directly paying for it.

Well, so il hiker. Tell me if this fits your definition of my "acting" like I'm paying for it.

My wife is not a citizen. So far it's cost us countless days off (many more to come), countless hours driving (many more to come), and thousands of dollars just to get her green card ... legally I might add. We still have to go through the citizenship process in three years, which will cost us more money, more time, and more aggrevation.

Meanwhile, these illegal pieces of crap are living off the system, coasting by, until they get a free ride.

How's your LOL now, bub?
last edited: 5/25/06 7:29:57 PM”