Wow! Intense feelings on illegal immigr ation

“According to the conservative pollster Rasmussen, a third party candidate running on a platform to enforce immigration laws and promising to build a barrier on the Mexican border would poll a close second in an election campaign at this point:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/April%20Dailies/Election%202008.htm



I have mixed feelings about the illegal immigration debate. I think we need to enforce our immigration laws and any non-citizens who work should do so legally and have the same rights and responsibilities as any citizen. Some of the passions on the issue carry intensely bigoted overtones - other equally passionate voices do not.
last edited: 4/28/06 10:56:41 AM”

“Addenda: I think people who would come on any guest worker program should have employer guaranteed health insurance. That way tax payers and health care providers don't get stuck with the costs (either way they would get passed on to us).

Most impoverished immigrants don't take jobs no one else want, they accept pay and conditions no one else wants - and when they get very ill, hospitals have to treat them tax payers and health care consumers end up subsidizing their employers who don't want to pay prevailing wages.”

“It's the Aztlaners & irredentists that are the real problem here.”

“...
last edited: 4/28/06 11:26:18 AM”

“... (stupid intrawebs)
last edited: 4/28/06 11:26:38 AM”

“Well Done!

I'll see your Atzlaners and and Irredentists, and raise you a handul of Xenophobes and Ehtno-paranoiacs!

http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Aztlaner”

“Oh?

By Investigative Reporter
John Taft

April 25, 2006

NewsWithViews.com

“You (gringos) have spilled enough of our blood, now it’s your turn to bleed, you [expletive] sub-human beasts.” So said an editorial in the University of California Irvine’s Hispanic LaVoz Mestiza. Professor Gutierrez, employed by the University of Texas, founder of La Raza said, “We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him." Now that isn’t very neighborly.

A Chicano organization called MEChA wants to take over much of the US Southwest, an area they call Aztlan said, "For the race everything. For those outside the race, nothing." Another “D” for a bad attitude. Other similar groups include: The La Raza Unida Party, Brown Berets de Aztlan, OLA (Organization for the Liberation of Aztlan), and the Nation of Aztlan. These are radical organizations that can be found in many American high schools and most colleges.”

“Only idiots and trolls take one incident and generalize to the entire population.”

“Like on the "responsible NRA member" thread, right? So which are you?”

“It's becoming a bigger issue as more people continue to pour across the border with no end in sight. What we have going on here is a broken system resulting in chaos.”

“Like on the "responsible NRA member" thread, right? So which are you?”


Exactly. Both.
last edited: 4/28/06 11:46:59 AM”

“Hey Violin - didn't you say you had a wife from a TWSH south of the border? Are you an Aztlaner? That could explain your consistent anti-Americanism.”

“Seal the Border...whatever it takes...No MORE people to deal with...

issue SSN's to the ones already here...with an "M" in them.

legal to stay, work, live if you're here already.....PAY TAXES...enforce Minimum Wage...(if they are not afraid of being deported the hispanics will scream if the wage ISN'T....hold on, think about it...now those people who have been paying them less will pay more....and they SHOULD, not to mention Taxes...Unemployment taxes, state and National Tax, Social security ALL of them.....

Oh, did I mention if there is an "M" in the number, you pay into the tax system, but NO refunds, NO deductions, NO Social Security, NO ENTITLEMENTS except Unemployment, and then not until you've worked the required number of quarters to qualify....

Once you have the number you are subject to deportation only IF:

1. you are arrested for ANY reason...(Note: ARRESTED not CONVICTED).

2. You fail to register for work in the state that issued the number.

3. You fail to meet the required standards for citizenship within 5 years. (Yes, that includes English Language comprehension).


We have to be reasonable, we will NOT deport 20 million people...but we can prevent an ADDITIONAL 20 million. We CAN tax them to pay for schooling and medical expenses, and once they are law abiding tax payers, we will extend all the rights and benifits that entitles.

P.S. Forfiture of the entire business for anyone caught employing an unregistered alien employee.....regardless of which company employee might have done so....Got an illegal working in a Tyson Plant in Alabama? The plant becomes US Property upon discovery of an illegal working in the plant....”

“Mutt, thanks for a good laugh. At first I thought you were joking. For every gringo hating kook you show me, I can show plenty of white nationalist nut cases. It's incredibly silly to take marginal cases and treat them like they are hugely powerful and in charge of masses.

RichB is right. The system is broken. But the source of the problems lies with economics and economic interests, not La Raza ideologues trying to take back territory won by the US in the 19th century.”

“There is a lot of construction going on around my neighboorhood. Well, there used to be. The construction sites are nearly empty now.

I agree with Supertroll that we cannot reasonably expect to deport that many people. But if we make them legal, they should have the same rights and responsibilities as any other legal immigrant. The system is broken and needs to be fixed.”

“It’s called equal protection under the law. Why does SuperTroll hate the Constitution?”

“what part of illegal do you people not understand...they have no rights, send them packing..problem is they can't even account for where they are at so you would never be able to send them all home.”

“There's no need to send them home and or even talk about deporting millions of people if they just enforce the laws on the books now. The jobs will dry up for them and they will leave on their own and it will deter millions more from thinking about coming here. Problem is that won't happen because business interests that make the politians tick won't allow it.”

“Close the borders ,get after employers, turn the screws slowly and control will create a different sucking sound toward the south.”

“I like Mexicans as much as anyone, but the rental house next door to mine seems to have become a flophouse for illegal aliens. There are about twelve of them living there with a couple of women who apparently do the cooking. They are pretty quiet most of the time but they have about five cars parked in the yard and driveway, and two or three more on the street. I don't think the landlord knows about this. They are no worse than the pot dealer and his friends who lived there before. Like the pot dealer, they seem eager to not draw attention to themselves. How these guys act will affect my opinion of illegal immigrants. If my house or car ever get burglarized I'll be reporting them. If not, live & let live. Maybe they'll do my yard work if I promise not to call Immigration.”

“With more and more illegals pouring over the border, I'm sure more flophouses and boarding houses will be springing up in neighborhoods. People that have the money to do so will just move out. Last month, neighbors here were tipped off of vanloads of people living in a few homes like sardines with them loading and unloading people everyday. They called authorities and they raided them and arrested a contractor bringing in illegals to work in a food processing plant. The contractor got house arrest and it was a joke. My friend worked in that plant for years and earned a living wage with health benefits, vacation etc. Now illegals have taken over for a fraction of what he made and most likely no benefits. Hey, if they cut their hand off just dump them on the doorstep of the hospital ER, you know the one that lost millions last year.
last edited: 4/28/06 10:10:55 PM”

“The current situation with illegals causes several problems. First, the overburdening of social services, especially in small towns where there is a high concentration of illegals. These small localities are simply unable to cope with educating large numbers of non-English-speaking children, and providing free medical care for them and their parents. There are a couple of towns like that in Nebraska, and I blame the packing plants who employ the illegals, seemingly without fear of criminal repercussions. The employers must be penalized somehow.

It doesn't seem like it's in anyone's best interest to have a shadowy underclass of people living in cramped, unsanitary conditions, working for low wages without any provision for health care. Yet those living this way don't want to leave, what does that say about the environment they came from? The downward pressure on wages hurts the most vulnerable segment of American workers, the unskilled & uneducated who now earn even less as a result, if they can find a job at all.

Seems to me that we do need better controls, to at least keep criminals from entering the country, and to make sure that those coming in have legitimate jobs. Who knows how many "good" illegals are victimized by the bad ones, I'll bet most of that crime goes unreported. Most hardworking illegals live very cheaply, have large amounts of cash, and are afraid to call the police, making them perfect targets for robbery.

Deporting all illegals seems unrealistic, but how do you provide amnesty for all without encouraging a huge new influx of immigrants, trying to beat the amnesty deadline?

I should add that my earlier comment about yard work was inappropriate, and I am sorry I posted that.”

“omah - are you sure they're illegal? Many immigrants to that in the DC area. They live with extended families, and help out recent legal arrivals.”

“bearmagnet, how would I know if they're illegal or not? It's not like I can ask them for their green cards, none of them speak English anyway. It seems to be a bunch of single men in their 20's & 30's. It would be somewhat intimidating for a female (me) to approach such a large group of men, I'm just thankful that they aren't bothering us so far.”

“Right. you live in a rough neighborhood? In my neighborhhod, the Latin Americans are the most friendly, followed by African Americans, Gay Men*, Ex-suburbanite Gentrifying #&%!$s.

In "Little Havana" They like to look and make comments, mostly towards my SO, who speaks Spanish.



*Gay Men - are the vangaurd of the DC Gentrifying Movement and needed to be seperated. They are, for the most part from the City. Ex-suburbanite Whites come next and won't look you in the eye unless they know you, much less say hello. We generally hate them and try to make 'em uncomfortable whenever we can. Until we have to leave.

:D”

“I think the emotions on the issue on both sides are a little too high. I don't think racism is a key to this issue, though it complicates things. The equation of racism with anti-immigration sentiment f--s up everything and it happens on both sides. There is racism or xenophobia adding energy to the anti-immigration side and xenophobia-phobia or racism-phobia on the other.

As Mutt demonstrates, there are xenophobes who worry about brown people taking over and there are those on the other side who think any attempt to control immigration is racist. Sure there are bigots in the Minutemen, but there are also a lot of Hispanics.

This can be handled in a clear, strong consistent way.”

“I have nothing against gay men. The ones who live three doors down have a beautiful yard, and let my mentally handicapped son practice shooting hoops in their driveway. My neighborhood defies generalization. Three blocks in one direction you have basically a ghetto. Three blocks in the other direction you have mansions, in various states of elegance and disrepair. It's an interesting area and fairly representative of the entire racial and social spectrum of the US. On my street we have young families, an older woman with a handicapped daughter, college students, and the immigrant flophouse. All living in harmony so far.”

“Most of us have ancestry that came from somewhere else, so we all know immigration is fine, but then again, that was all LEGAL immigration, with rules to follow, paperwork kept, and if you mibehaved, it was back to where you came from before. I work with many LEGAL immigrants from Portugal, Colombia, Dominican Republic, and Honduras. I think some folks would like to hear their opinion of the "issue" although liberals won't,, they say enforce the laws, because they all had to go through the hurdles to get here, all pay taxes, most already have learned our ways and obtained citizenship( If folks born here had to do what they have to to get citizenship, I think about 3/4 would fail).Their opinion is that allowing criminals to be given a pass is about as wrong as it gets. I think it's about as sensible to allow legitimacy to the illegals as it would be to pardon child molesters, after all, I'm sure there are more than a few felons who come here to escape the laws of their native countries, and starting off with no record here is a way to start all over again.”

“I agree that instant amnesty would be very unfair to those who have tried to navigate all of the legal obstacles to citizenship. I also worked with legal immigrants, if I recall correctly, some of them had to travel to their home countries periodically, at great personal expense, to continue working legally. Foreigners here legally should be put at the front of the line.”

““I think the emotions on the issue on both sides are a little too high. I don't think racism is a key to this issue, though it complicates things. The equation of racism with anti-immigration sentiment f--s up everything and it happens on both sides. There is racism or xenophobia adding energy to the anti-immigration side and xenophobia-phobia or racism-phobia on the other.

As Mutt demonstrates, there are xenophobes who worry about brown people taking over and there are those on the other side who think any attempt to control immigration is racist. Sure there are bigots in the Minutemen, but there are also a lot of Hispanics.

This can be handled in a clear, strong consistent way.”

Shut it Heb! You're next to go home!












Heehee! Shabbat shalom!”

“On the other hand, Gay men can be a disturbing factor in gentrifying. They see something they don't like and they, as a group, activate to have it removed. I'm not talking about a drug alley, but legitimate businesses. One was a bar that catered strongly to Ethiopean/cab drivers. It didn't look "right" next to the two foo foo White bars that just opened up. A few of my friends went to the community meetings to fight for it.

They loss. Sometimes Gay Men, as a collective force, can really piss me off as well.

Who wants diversity in a city anyway?”

“No foo foo bars around here, our neighborhood bar has cheap beer, cheap shots, and cheap women. Gay men are afraid to go there. Don't patronize the place myself unless I am outta beer & too drunk to drive to the store.”

“I love dives. I have to walk further and further these days to find them. the best thing about them is the bartendars can distinguish between someone who has lived here for a while and a gentrifyer.

;)”

“DeadNBloated, get lost! We don't want your kind round these here parts!”

“BIRTH CONTROL and PLANNING sooner than later.”

“Most of us have ancestry that came from somewhere else, so we all know immigration is fine, but then again, that was all LEGAL immigration, with rules to follow, paperwork kept
swamp yankee
10:27:27 AM
4/29/06

Uhhhhhh, no it wasn't. Not that there were many rules early on but illegal immigration has always been with us.”

“bearmagnet, you are uninformed. In the past, people could be sent back to their native countries for something as trivial as an eye infection.”

“Go to Ellis Island and take the tour, persons denied entance were sent back on the same boat they came on, that was part of the deal the shipping agents had to go by, and often this denial was based on a health check of 7 seconds or less”

“Omaha - you missed Bears point. You weren't contradicting him - he was pointing out that illegal immigration has been with us as long as there have been laws about immigration. Illegal settlements were a factor in developing our land.”

“pedx, can you find any historical numbers showing trends of legal vs. illegal? That would be interesting, and might shed some light on the present situation.

It still seems unfair that we would grant automatic amnesty to those illegals who are here, simply because they are here, while overlooking the plight of people who have gone to great effort to maintain their legal status. I have no cite, but I am guessing that the illegals outnumber the legals, and that the illegals are much less prosperous and self-sufficient than those who are here legally.”

“That's because, unlike that neat saying on The Statue, we don't really accept the poor and what not. Or should I say the barriers are just more difficult, at least on their end, maybe here also. Not sure.”

“we still accept many who are persecuted for political and religious reasons, basically no questions asked - for example, there are hundreds of immigrants from the Sudan living in Omaha. I don't know that we should accept all who are economically oppressed, that would be pretty much the whole third world.”

““DeadNBloated, get lost! We don't want your kind round these here parts!”

Shut it Husker! You're next to get sent home! LOL!”

“Many Latin American countries have tests for drivers ID that require a bit of schooling. many of the poor do not have the schooling. Many, therefore, have no ID. many can never leave their countries at all, much less get on a plane.”

“that's HuskerBabe to you loooooser!!!!
last edited: 4/29/06 2:37:14 PM”

“Hey DNB - drop dead! I mean.... oh, err... GO decompose quietly somewhere else.”

“Omaha - I don't know where to find stats on that. I'm sure its usually guess work. I did see something that showed that after illegal immigration spiked after WWII, peaked in 1954 and then creashed after mass deportations mostly from Texas and then slowly built up again. I've seen nothing on pre-war statistics.”

““Hey DNB - drop dead! I mean.... oh, err... GO decompose quietly somewhere else.”

This would all be a bit funnier if you guys had looked at my profile. I'm completely within my naugahyde rights to call you Heb.






Heb...”

“Here is a link to some current numbers, if they can be trusted. It's hard to say how accurate these statistics would be, considering that illegals by definition are under the radar. Don't click if you hate Adobe!!

http://www.pewtrusts.org/pdf/PHC_Immigration_0306.pdf

It's hard to find reliable statistics on historical numbers of illegal immigrants, but Pew says that they now comprise approximately 5% of the American workforce. Quite a significant number. This reflects an increase of almost one-third since 2000.

Illegals hold a very large proportion of jobs in certain industries, such as construction (especially drywall, roofing, insulation), "leisure & entertainment" - presumably food service & hotel/motel grunt work, cleaning, and agricultural.
last edited: 4/30/06 12:25:12 PM”

“In California, 5% would be those who have made at a million dollars off of the others sweat.”