NSA building database of all US phone re cords

““Hyway - I think you're right on a number of fronts. So in your view as long as you don't, for example, pay income tax, then it's fine for government and private companies to spy on you?”

Y2
4:58:23 PM
5/11/06

I feel fairly certain that you are intentionally playing dense, but I'll respond anyway. You are only concerned with the loss of liberty when its your ox being delibertied. As long as you are getting what you want you could give a damn if the constitution is being trampled, unless of course, you aren't getting what you want. Then you wrap yourself in patriotic quotes and drink deeply from the cup of liberty.

I, as a rational person, know that our founding fathers didn't go to war with England so that you can have phone sex with your pastors wife without fear of the government listening in.”

“THE SALEBORED-TO-RUSSIAN-TO-ENGLISH TRANSLATION MACHINE
you decide which makes more sense ...

SALEBORED:
Sarge thanks, now I know that english should be a second language. And , I've discovered that the true meaning of the thousands of words that passed by my eyes here have done so without the magic touch of the master.A whole new view of the world through the swirles of lava lamp literacy was all needed.

RUSSIAN:
Сержант благодарит, теперь я знаю, что английский язык должен быть вторым языком. И, я обнаружил, что истинное значение тысяч слов, которые переданный моими глазами здесь сделали так без волшебного контакта владельца. Целое новое представление мира через swirles грамотности лампы лавы было все необходимо.

ENGLISH:
Sergeant thanks, now I know, that English language should be the second language. And, I have found out, that true value of thousand words which transferred here have made my eyes so without magic contact of the owner. The whole new representation of the world through swirles all was necessary for literacy of a lamp of a lava.”

“While away, I had a polish with kraut and two pints and I polled eleven point 2 million illies about which new language they would like to have the government record by wire tap. Results; english sounds to much like a nail gun nailing plywood to studs and missing the studs, russian sounds like a NG nailing my hand to the plywood, salebored understands all of us too easy and thank you for the beer.”

“I am reminded of the Nam quote of yore, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it." Seriously, I have been working for the government, reading all of these subversive post and yall are in big trouble!”

“telephone companies began turning over records of tens of millions of their customers' phone calls to the National Security Agency program shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001,


Moooohahahahahahahahaha

I have worked for a couple of telephone companies and the number of calls per day exceedes 300 million. More on Mothers day and Christmas.
Also as Jimmy San said these are billing records, who called who and for how long.

Unless you are making calls to libya, Iran, or some specific numbers associated with locations on a suspect list your calls will be filtered out and no one will ever see them.

If you have been calling or receiving calls from the same list as Moussaoui, yep, you will be added to the watch list.
Actually I do not have a problem with that.

But where this does get out of control is when someone does start monitoring Jenifer Aniston or Angelina Jolie's calls because they think she is hot. So in the script from "Enemy of the State" who monitors the people doing the monitoring ?”

“My concern is who monitors the people monitoring the people doing the monitoring. That's the issue.”

“Yeah, but thats no different than who monitors the people processing our tax forms. Who monitors the people running the food stamp program, welfare and other programs for the poor. Or like in a previous thread who monitors the people processing gun permits.”

“I have a friend in State department who's Iranian. I guess all her calls are monitored, eh?”

“why the heck would we monitor any calls to Iran? I can't think of a single reason.”

“The real threat are public school teachers. Who monitors them? They brainwash our kids, which are the future of this country.”

“I would think it was pretty hysterical . . .watching all you right wingers shoving each other out of the way for the right to be the first to bend over, spread wide and take it up the butt from big brother . . .if it weren't so pathetic.


Look. We all have political, religous, moral belief systems . . .but you should every once in a while take a long hard look in the mirror, or do a gut check.

Don't throw yourself over George Bush's cliff just because its the party line.

It seems as though the technology dependent western countries are moving inexhorably in the direction of big brother like states. The more we rely on instantaneous information, and the more we put our medical, personal, financial and other informational into techological packages , the more vulenerable we are to the likes of Geo Bush.

All it takes is for this information to be available (which it is). . .and for there to be a "crisis point", a seemingly obvious reason for the state to justify the collection, sorting and evaluation of the data that already exists in raw form anyway (as someone pointed out above).

So we have had our crisis point (9/11), and people are just willing to roll bottom up and receive the state colonic. It is somewhat ironic (hysterical I said earlier) that the those who are outraged about the idea of any sort of gun registry, are those who are most likely to drop trou first.

So what is the thinking of these second amendment morons?? that it is okay for the state to invade their privacy, monitor their phone traffic, and otherwse have the ability to chronoical every aspect of their lives, as long as they don't know how many guns they have??? to what end? So that when they "come for you in their black helicopters" they won't know what kind of firepower you can muster from the window your trailer???

I fully understand the threat posed by the rising tide of terror perpetrated by radical islamic and other fundementalist religious organizations. Anyone with the patience can pull up my post 9/11 rants and raves about eh need to fight a sustained never ending war against terror. Abotu the need to develop teams that that can take out threats in other countries etc.

I firmly believe that we cannot leave Iraq now. Nor anytime within the next 25 years. How do you like them apples? I don't like how and why we got into Iraq. I don't believe it was the right mission or at the right time. I believe Geo Bush and Don Rumsfeld should be tried and imprisoned for treason for their lies to the country. But now that we're there we have to stay. We can't leave the mess. 25 years . .probably at a minimu. I am thinking along the lines of our presence in Germany and Japan post WWII. That's what we need over there now. In fact, I would argue that we should wholesale move whatever current presence remains in Western Europe to Iraq.

I reference this only to indicate that I am not (contrary to opinion on this board) a bleeding hearted antiwar liberal. Quite the contrary, I don't give a damn if the death count in US troops goes to 75,000. We need to stay there for the long haul. I don't think the poliltical system or the American public has the guts, the sense or the will to actual do the job right.

Instead . . .you all run around making stupid "i'm a true patriot" type gestures about the need to invade citizens privacy and that your okay with it.

You're not true patriots. You didn't learn a damn thing from 9/11. You are a bunch of braindead, mindless sheep. Line up buttwipes. Line up to be sheered.”

“Somebody count how many personal/non-issue related jabs were taken in that post. Says a lot.”

“In my brief discussion of the techology laden west's inexorhable slide toward state monitoring of personal information . ..the (I think) reasonable conclusion is that true freedom, true liberty (not the Geo Bush variety) will be enjoyed only in un(der)developed regions of the world where family units still practice subsistance forms of living and aren't wired.

An interesting trade off. Wealth. Gadgets. better medicine and perhaps health, education (to what end?) . . .living in a big brother state, or freedom, farming simply.

I am being to sound like I should move to northern vermont or maine, live off the grid and spend my days hiking, hunting and farming.

And it doesn't sound so bad.”

“In my brief discussion of the techology laden west's inexorhable slide toward state monitoring of personal information . ..

Right off the bat you're off the mark. This is nothing new. Nothing has changed.

true freedom, true liberty (not the Geo Bush variety) will be enjoyed only in un(der)developed regions of the world where family units still practice subsistance forms of living and aren't wired

You are beginning to sound like you should move to an underdeveloped country. Bye!!!”

“WOW..this is fun! Sarge, I didn't notice but did anyone happen to mention the actions of the Savior of Liberal Democrats and Freedom Franklin Roosevelt during World War II?????”

“You can take (or not) anything (or nothing) from my post.

if you want to conclude that it was just a vehicle to call YOU PERSONALLY a "moron" A Sheep" or "braindead", you certainly are welcome to. That would fit into YOUR world view of "the persecuted righteous one". The one everyone here is talking about and out to get, that is certainly your perogative.

I would argue that if you identified with those adjectives, then they probably fit you well.

If you didn't identify yourself in them, then maybe they don't.

My point. I don't care now, haven't cared in the past, and likely will not care in the future what you, or virtually anyone else thinks about me, my posts, my opinionsor anything else(with the exceptions outline in a post i made on your last temper tantrum I'm dead again" thread).
'
As Nigal is wont to point out. This ain't reality. Its the internet.

And what does my use of insults exactly say??? Does it make me wrong?


Pedxing might argue that while I may have valid points, my expression of them lacks maturity. Is that what you are saying?


Or are you saying that because I called people chowderheads that I am wrong. that's pretty interesting logic.”

“Lee, you need the ,'russian translator and muffin machine' treatment.
The medical staff here will help you with your meds if needed. Man , if the US gov. could supply a service like what is available here we could all fit down in those little recesses of the muffin pan and rise to a perfectly baked little striped arm muffin dudes.
last edited: 5/12/06 8:55:35 AM”

“My point. I don't care now, haven't cared in the past, and likely will not care in the future what you, or virtually anyone else thinks about me, my posts, my opinionsor anything else

Obviously. That's what you just typed all that and asked me all those questions about what I meant when I commented on your post.”

“"But what is it used for. Is it used to then take the records before a judge to then gain permission for a legal wiretap. Otherwise in and of itself how useful is it."
Y2
2:27:52 PM
5/11/06


Actually Y2, with all the publically (and not public) info available to the gov't they can take those simple phone numbers and match them up with all the people at the listed addresses (at both ends of the conversation), then all their known friends/relatives, and then pull full dossiers on every one of those people that might have been talking during that conversation.

Just saving the phone numbers in their database can be very enlightening when combined with other databases.”

“Note the Libs quail in terror at the thought of Rooseveltian History...want to talk Controls, Want to talk infringement of freedoms? Let talk World War II....Lets talk Truman....(LOL)....”

“Sorry not to be clear with my questions.

I was using them to point out that your only pithy observations about my post seeemed to be my name calling. Not the more substantive content.

I was not in any meaningful way, shape or form trying to express actual concern for your opinion of that content.

I don't particulary regard threads of this nature as a "dialogue" or intellectual engaged exchange of ideas. That would be vesting them with WAY too much credibility.

I view them as you talking AT me (or the larger TT audience). And then me talking AT you (and/or the larger TT audience).

For example. Right now it may seem we are engaged in a dialogue. To me we are not. We are each merely trying to assert our opinion of situation. We aren't talking. I don't care, nor am I engaged in what you are saying. I am merely talking my point at you.


This thread had stretched on to the point where the irony of the right wingers bending over for invasion of privacy became too rich for me to ignore, plus its a rainy quiet day here.

So I merely posted my my version of talking back at the posts that had already gone by.


One last thought on this line.


As thing seem to go with you . . .we have strayed way off the subject at hand. So let me say that I am through discussing the nature of the discussion with you.

I will sum by saying what I said before.

I find sad pathetic irony in the right winger Bushies arguing that there is great valor and patriotism in allowing our constutional rights to be undermined, than in protesting the invasion.

That, in the name of 9/11, the great patriotic Trojan horse, we sliding toward a big brother state. And that our dependence on technology to warehouse personal information, and the governments illegal access to that information, facilitates the slide.

That is my message.
last edited: 5/12/06 9:17:36 AM”

“Just so you know, I didn't read that last post lee.”

“Just so you know. I don't care (hahahhaah, now that's funny).”

“Obviously.”

“I just thought of this standing at the urinal

You wouldn't have known that the response "I did't read it" was the appropriate response unless you HAD read it.

Therefore you DID read it. Therefore you are a liar.




Okay. Now I'm really done. As much fun as its been.”

“I will stop trying to interfere with you having incorrect thoughts. Live in your bubble.”

“I wonder how we managed to maintain our liberty when Lilly Tomlin connected our calls and people had party lines.”

“Tech - there should aslo be decent privacy laws covering information gathered and stored on you by private companies - how many identity theft cases do there need to be before something is done. Of course by contributing political funds the companies holding this data know nothing will be done.”

““I just thought of this standing at the urinal"

Do you often stand around with your dick in your hand thinking of Sarge? LOL!”

“I am more pissed about having to pay $2 to use an ATM not owned by my bank. Thats the crap that needs to be fixed.”

“change your bank Hyway, I get that for free.”

“Just hung up a long 900# call. Ask the girls about the advise Sarge was giving that doesn't come around on TT.”

““I wonder how we managed to maintain our liberty when Lilly Tomlin connected our calls and people had party lines.” - Hyway

LOL!

"Do you often stand around with your dick in your hand thinking of Sarge? LOL!” - DnB

LOL!

“change your bank Hyway, I get that for free.” - Y2

waht-waaaaaaa ....”

“y2, my bank doesn't charge me to use an ATM not owned by them, but that doesn't stop the other bank from charging me to use that ATM. I know I don't have to use it, and most times I don't, but in an industry as regulated as the banking industry is that kind of gouging should be stopped.

What I am saying though is I am more worried about wallet than I am about the government knowing I buy sex toys over the phone, ummm, I mean what I buy over the phone.”

“My concern is who monitors the people monitoring the people doing the monitoring. That's the issue.”

Ya. And hey, who's monitoring Matt?”

“why the heck would we monitor any calls to Iran? I can't think of a single reason.”
Hyway
7:15:51 AM
5/12/06

So her calls should be monitored?”

“I have no problem with the NSA having a record of what numbers I call. If I am called by or I call a number of a known or suspected terrorist then they should monitor my or her calls.”

“I should have e-mailed that order for more liquor store clerks.”

“Do they have a terrorist yellow pages?”

“Hyway, my credit union refunds me other bank's fees (up to a limit). Check out credit unions in your area, you may be eligible for one of them.

Y2- "there should aslo be decent privacy laws covering information gathered and stored on you by private companies - how many identity theft cases... "


Funny you should mention that. Congress started working on that this week.”

“My 'bank' is a credit union. I'll check to see if they do that. thanks”

“Oh my God! Next thing you know someone will find a way to track all our web activity!!!!”
Nonconformist
9:12:21 AM
5/11/06


The DoD has already done this. I have direct evidence that they crashed 2 of my computers after I posted and emailed my comparison to the current republican party and facsist parties of the past (using mainly primary sources, i might add). After both computers were hacked (with excellant firewall and anti-virus software), I couldn't even bring up DOS after the second crash. After the first computer crashed, I was able to bring up the computer (after 2 days of trying), and was able to view my firewall history. I pinged 4 "direct attacks" within 1/2 hour to the Department of Defense. Called the number, and got an answer that stupid people like sarge would believe. My reg comp crashed the next day, forever. 1 week later, the same thing happened to my laptop (i was using it to go online at that point). 2 weeks later, and 1 month prior to 2004 election, I was visited by 2 FBI agents. My boss (former Vietnam Protestor and current Iraq protestor) was visited by the SAME two FBI agents a week later.

Big Brother IS here people. Some of you may take comfort in that. Most of you don't. The fact is, it's been going on for some time now. I don't know about you nonconformist, but I don't like that fact that I have reprecussions from this government for my freedom of speech.

I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is that while you are jesting about government observation, I don't see the joke because of my experiences. This is no laughing matter.........

sticking my tongue on an aluminum sven saw in below zero weather... now that's a laughing matter!”

“delusions of granduer...

look at me, i am so important the DoD crashes my computer.”

“Speaking of manipulating US citizens, check this story out:

"As expected, the premiere for new electronic voting machines made Tuesday's primary more confusing than trying to introduce Xbox to an old-folks home.

There were problems printing the ballots, memory cards were lost, and some polling places were offline for hours as workers struggled to get the Diebold* machines up and running.

So 61-year-old Marc Fenster discovered a unique and productive way to relieve his frustration. He stormed into a polling station on Jennings Road in Cleveland and started whaling on one machine like a guy from Detroit celebrating a Pistons championship.

Patrick Wallenhorst, who was trying to vote at the time, says Fenster was "just smashing away at it with both arms."

But while Diebold's machines suck at actually collecting votes, they're apparently manufactured to take quite a beating. Fenster's repeated blows hardly dented the machine. So he picked it up and smashed it on the ground. "That's when it just went into pieces," says Wallenhorst, who grabbed Fenster and escorted him outside as volunteer workers called the cops.

Yet Fenster would not be deterred. He pushed his way back in and picked up another machine, trashing it on the ground.

Wallenhorst says that Fenster, who was eventually arrested, described the assault as his "civic duty."

In that case, carry on, good sir.

* Deibold CEO Walden O'Dell in 2003:
"I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president."

Now there is a CEO that earned his $400 million compenastion package.”

“Conspiracy nut.

Hey Buddha Bear, I'm still waiting for your lawyer to contact me. You said he would. What gives? Did you lie? Are you lying now too?”

“delusions of granduer...

look at me, i am so important the DoD crashes my computer.”
hyway
8:45:45 PM
5/12/06

spoken like a true head buried in the sand moron. Congrats!”

“Yeah now we are gunna find out how much of Buddha bears company phone time is spent on him wackin off to the 900 lines.....”

“Conspiracy nut.

Hey Buddha Bear, I'm still waiting for your lawyer to contact me. You said he would. What gives? Did you lie? Are you lying now too?”
Sarge
8:50:29 PM
5/12/06

Here's a guy that thought WMD's were in Iraq, calling me a conspiracy nut. Hey sarge, mr. patriot, why are you not in Iraq right now? We need good men like you checking out suspicious packages from all the people greeting us a liberators over there. As a matter of fact, you'd be the perfect "Liberator Packages of Thanks" inspector.”

“Hey, that was an accident! I meant to dial 1-800-USbeaver. The "9" instead of the "8" was an accident.

PEEEEEEEEETE, in da house.”

“Uh, Buddha Bear. WMDs were in Iraq bud. Keep saying they weren't.”