Nancy Pelosi, Dem Hero

“You libbies must be so proud of her.”

“Perhaps Pelosi is sending the message the american people want delivered (?)”

“It seems that Pelosi is doing the job she was hired to do.......represent the 'merkin people.

Democracy ain't always pretty, but Nancy is at least better lookin' than that lardass Hastert.”

“Nancy Pelosi wasn't elected to conduct foreign relations. Not her job to send messages to foreign tyrants, when they conflict with the message of the person elected to do theat job.”

“Americans want her to misrepresent Israel's intentions?

You must be kidding.

Visions of Carter dancing in my head.”

“You're lusting after Carter??”

“=)

Just remembering how he trusted and "negotiated" with DPRK.”

“I suppose skipping all pretense of diplomacy and charging ahead to war is what real men do.”

“the world isnt as black and white as you make it out to be.”

“I don't make it out to be black and white, Corey, its infinitely more nuanced.

And I do have a sense of humor.”

“Good - glad your charging to war accusation of Pelosi's foes was a joke. I take you as a smart guy.


Jury is out on funny. Try this: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0405071drag1.html”

“I am sure that Syria is just hot to hear what Dumbya and clowns have to say. that's the point. Pelossi is a fresh face and the key rep of the new leadership in D.C. Maybe she can make some headway since President Moron can't.”

“Exactly, Rosey!

Keep 'em talkin' and hold their feet to the fire as needed.”

“You support lying to them about our alias' motives?

What does that achieve exactly?”

“Corey B. Turn off the Faux News for a sec and just contemplate the greater good.

What exactly are you saying? A peace accord with Israel is bad?”

“How does telling Syria lies about what Isreal says, promote a peace accord? That's just plain crazy.

What you been smokin?
last edited: 4/05/07 1:25:15 PM”

“Oh sorry. I forgot that you were there during the negotiations. My bad.”

“The Isreali leader says she was wrong. That's good enough for me. Certainly more credible than you and Nancy.
last edited: 4/05/07 1:35:33 PM”

“But on the other side a milquetoast leader like Olmert who has a job approval rating of around 23% can't carry too much weight either. But even a fool can see you don't trust people who play both sides of the fence.

She's undermining the State Department's area of operation. IMHO of course.”

“Wow, you put a lot of faith in America's beeyatch, Israel. That's not surprising though since you also still seem to hold out faith that the group currently in the White House know what's going on and are making prudent, calculated decisions in that regard.

The Bush administration shot themselves in the foot with the whole axis of evil diatribe and successfully alienated those countries and their alies. None of those countries wants to hold talks with Shrub and associates. It's gonna take new leadership and a new approach -- not the Bush Administration's strong-arm, drunk, stupid frat-boy tactic. Bush can try and kiss as much azz as he want to, but it's not gonna make a lick of difference.

Oh, and Nigal. Thank you for pointing out that Israel's own population doesn't trust the guy. Amazing the similarities to our own country.
last edited: 4/05/07 2:06:37 PM”

“RM, I guess you've forgotten your grade school Civics or government classes. Nancy Pelosi hasn't been elected president, and isn't the Secretary of State, and has no business trying to conduct foreign policy. Doesn't matter how much you hate Bush, he was elected president. He gets to make foreign policy. And just cause you hate him, doesn't change the Constitution. OK?”

“you got it wrong, you silly libbie rosey. israel is not america's beeyotch.




america is israel's beeyotch.”

“HB, doesn't matter, you don't have to like either one. Still doesn't change the Constitution. She is still way out of line.”

“Ha ha. Glad it's getting the right worked into a lather...”

“roseymonster, assume for a moment you put ZERO faith in israel, in fact, one hates them. How does Pelosi misrepresenting their intentions help the situation?”

“from faux news:

A group of three Republican congressmen also visited Syria in recent days, but with a much lower profile. They too met with Assad. One staff member, however, said the two trips were planned independently and the Republicans were unaware of the speaker's travel plans.

Rep. Robert Aderholt, R-Ala., issued a statement Wednesday putting distance between his trip with Reps. Frank Wolf of Virginia and Joe Pitts of Pennsylvania. Other Republicans visiting Syria in recent days were Reps. David Hobson of Ohio and Darrell Issa of California.

Robert Aderholt, Frank Wolf, Joe Pitts, David Hobson and Darrell Issa haven't been elected president, and aren't the Secretary of State, and have no business trying to conduct foreign policy. Doesn't matter how much you hate Bush, he was elected president. He gets to make foreign policy. And just cause you hate him, doesn't change the Constitution. OK?”

“america is israel's beeyotch. - hikerboy

Hey look, another PLO sympathizer! Who do you like better, Hamas or Fatah? Also, which are better targets for homicide bombers - women or children?”

“Did some twit just say she is carrying the message the American People Elected her to do? SHE IS FROM Berkley....she as elected by Berkley....she does not represent the US she represents a wierd part of the Left Coast. Her position as Speaker of the House simply means she was elected by fellow congressmen to organize their activities.

GOOD Lord how pathetic is civics education in this nation when we do not know the duties and responsibilities of members of the Legislative branch.”

“I personally never understood the fallacy of the concept that Israel is somehow our 51st state. Israel is a perfect example of how both nations can prosper from a good relationship. We give them aid, most times in the form of loans and in return they use that money for contracts with American companies. Israel is an absolute hot bed for new technologies in many fields. Even for as tiny as Israel is they make so many advances. When was the last time we heard of a huge advancement coming from any other Middle eastern country?

Yes there are times when Israel capitulates to the will of America, and that's sad, but it is all a part of working together just like with our other allies.”

“hikerboy, what about any of their visits was not representing the president?”

“"Nancy Pelosi tends to forget that there is an executive branch," chortles the National Review.

america's executive branch tends to forget that there's this thing called diplomacy. which is worse?”

“And America's Exec Branch thinks it's the Judicial Branch. Ahhh. It all makes sense now.

Here's more from the weirdo Left Coast:

”

“Conservative windbags continue to claim, without evidence, that Pelosi delivered an "incorrect message" from Israel to Syria during her meeting with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Pelosi insists that Israel’s message was communicated accurately, and has suggested a good way to prove it:

Pelosi was briefed by State Department officials before her meetings with the foreign leaders and that State Department officials also attended her meetings.

So if Pelosi really committed foreign policy flubs of the first order, the State Department is in a position to confirm as much.

The White House certainly received a read-out of what exactly Pelosi and the foreign leaders said in their meetings. Significantly, the White House has not openly accused Pelosi of the foreign-policy missteps the Post had accused her of.

In an e-mail Pelosi spokesman Brendan Daly pointed out: "WH has not said that because in fact the Speaker did not get the message wrong — she included the necessary caveats and did not say or imply that this was a change in Israel’s position."

Indeed, despite President Bush’s claim that Pelosi’s trip sent "mixed signals," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said during his briefing today, "I don’t think [her trip] complicates anything that we’re doing."”

“those are 2 separate issues

1. Israel said they were misrepresented. No need for U.S. to confirm what was said by the horses mouth.

2. Bush DID say she does not represent the U.S., which she does not, regardless of whether or not she screwed things up, which has little to do with #1.

poorly writtenarticle - especially the ladt, unrelated sentence beginning with "indeed". where is that from?”

“So what the hell are we doing speaking for Israel anyhow?”

“Nigal: We ARE Israel.”

“I can see Rosey feverishly flipping through his dog eared copy of The Elder Scrolls of Zion now...

flip flip flip flip flip...”

“I've even got matzos in my cabinet...”

“Sinner! Wait, you aren't even Jewish are you? Carry on with yo grainy-ass self. LOL!”

““With the exception of the wierd buzzing...lets remember ISREAL has NEVER started a war."

XL400236
10:21:31 AM
4/05/07

Another fractured fairly tale from the guy who claims to know history. Unless you are talking about some mythical land of "Isreal."

You can justify 1956, 1967, and 1981 as preemptive or on other grounds (e.g. in 1981 the PLO in Lebanon had to be dealt with) - but don't try to tell me that Egypt or Lebanon started these wars.

I'm starting to feel like a fly-swatter correcting your strange illusions about history.

By the way XL, do you still believe there were no UN weapons inspections in Iraq during the months leading up to W's invasion?”

“Holy poop on a stick, Ped's fired up! LOL!”

“LOL! Yeah, I got me a minor crusade.

I like XL and I'm sure I'd have a blast backpacking with him, especially if at least one of us kept away for politics. I honestly believe he is a good guy, maybe a great guy when it really counts. But in Fuego, he keeps on coming up with off the wall stuff and I wish for once he'd either back it up or admit he was wrong.

Nigal: I assume you would agree with those who say that Israel had to launch those wars and might have been toast in '67 if they'd waited for an attack. I think thats a reasonable position (I'd agree on '67, disagree on '56 and split hairs on '81). But, I'd be surprised if you'd deny that Israel ever launched a war first. I pick you as someone who is ardently pro-Israel and more apt to criticize the leaders for not being aggressive enough.

And wtf is up with that "wierd buzzing" (and is it "wired" or "weird"?)
last edited: 4/05/07 7:33:33 PM”

“The '56 war was justified and unavoidable. Israel was in the right. Egypt had fedayeen forces in Israel as early as '55. and at that time Nasser said, "Egypt has decided to dispatch her heroes, the disciples of Pharaoh and the sons of Islam and they will cleanse the land of Palestine....There will be no peace on Israel's border because we demand vengeance, and vengeance is Israel's death.".

Then with the blockades Nasser said, "I am not solely fighting against Israel itself. My task is to deliver the Arab world from destruction through Israel's intrigue, which has its roots abroad. Our hatred is very strong. There is no sense in talking about peace with Israel. There is not even the smallest place for negotiations.". Later that same month Syria and Jordan both signed their armies over to Nasser to use as he saw fit.

What to do? Sit and wait for them to come or shape the battle to your own advantage?

Lebanon I think was a mistake. They shouldn't have invaded for an assassination attempt. They should have done what they do well, assassinate back. Let MOSSAD handle it.

Israel is like any other nation, it does make mistakes and it does do some evil shlt from time to time.”

“Also just to clarify, I do know that the reasons for a war are always claimed by both sides and they both try to go back further than the other side. I'm sure if we kept going back to the root it would come down to a guy Jacob and a guy named Ishmael fighting for the love of their father. :P”

“Since my earlier post on the topic seems to have gotten lost, here are two links from the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz:

2/27/07 When Israeli officials asked Secretary Rice about the possibility of exploring the seriousness of Syria in its calls for peace talks, her response was unequivocal: Don't even think about it.



4/3/07: The speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, is scheduled to meet with Syrian President Bashar Assad in Damascus today, and will deliver a message of calm from Israel.

"We hope the message will be understood," political sources in Israel said yesterday. "The question is whether Assad is looking for an excuse ... so that he can carry out an attack against Israel in the summer, or whether this is a mistaken assessment."
last edited: 4/05/07 8:54:22 PM”

“To me, there is lots of room for intelligent disagreement: were any of the wars just.

At the moment, I think invading Southern Lebanon in '81 was OK. Israel started that war, but the PLO was using South Lebanon as a safe haven. There was no real Lebanese control there and moving into clear out the PLO was legit, just as invading Afghanistan to remove Al Qeda was legit.
I think they went too far. If they'd cleared the PLO out of the South and then left - it would have sent a message, they could have delivered all kinds of major supplies to strengthen the SLA. PLO might have been able to move back into Southern Lebanon, probably not as strongly as before and Israel would have strengthened alliances with the majority of those in South Lebanon who hated the PLO. The SLA would have been strengthened militarily and maintained credibility in fighting the foreign (PLO) occupiers.

IMO: Israel, led by Sharon, over-played their hand launched a prolonged occupation, tried to reshape Lebanon's government and ended up being hated far more than the PLO. Hezbollah became heroes in South Lebanon fighting the Israeli occupation. The US got all involved trying to back Sharon's gambit (shelling the Shouf mountains) and that did not end well for the US either.

In some ways Iraq is a replay of Lebanon, with the US playing the role of Israel. While I was aganist going in, it might have worked far better if we'd simply done the job we had to do and left - without an occupation or trying to change the government wholesale. Left the army intact and left the country once we got Saddam and an chance to search for WMD's unhindered.
last edited: 4/05/07 9:08:42 PM”

“LANCASTER COUNTY, Pa. - U.S. Rep. Joe Pitts and two other Republican congressmen did not undermine the Bush administration by meeting with Syria's leader Sunday, despite going to Damascus against the president's wishes, Pitts said Wednesday.
[...]
Pitts and U.S. Reps. Frank Wolfe of Virginia and Robert Aderholt of Alabama met with Assad Sunday to talk about issues in the Middle East three days before Pelosi's delegation arrived there on a similar mission.

"Dialogue is not a sign of weakness," Pitts said after returning home Wednesday. "It's a sign of strength."
[...]
Pitts said the congressional Republicans' meeting with Assad did not undermine Bush because they emphasized the same policies the president advocates.

"The first thing we said was … to appeal to the Syrian government to stop the flow of foreign fighters into Iraq with (explosives) and killing our soldiers in Iraq," Pitts said.

The Republicans also talked about stopping Syrian support of Hamas and Hezbollah and Syrian involvement in Lebanon, he said.

Pelosi spokesman Drew Hammill said the Speaker's seven-member delegation — six Democrats and one Republican — delivered a similar message Wednesday.

"The bipartisan delegation stressed to President Assad that President Bush and the Congress are united in fighting terrorism," Hammill said, adding Pelosi raised issues related to Iraq, Hamas and Hezbollah.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/202534”

“Violin, those links to Haaretz are pretty convincing to me. I hadn't gotten that info from my paper.

Thanks.”

“Rabbi Eliyahu Leon Levi, one of the major Kabbalists in Israel has warned all Israelis to buy 2 weeks worth of food, water and supplies because he says Israel's next war could start as early as on Pesach or during Pesach. He warns this one will be against rocket attacks coming from Lebanon again but this time Syria will join them in the fun.

Surprisingly, rather than calling for the death of Syria and the Arabs and the east he said, "We are on the brink of redemption, and a great war is coming." he said. "Whoever doesn't prepare himself spiritually is at great risk. A person must turn to G-d in prayer and cry and confess his wrongdoings, and rectify his ways. A person must recite Psalms as we do every Saturday night here at the site of our holy temple. The recitation of Psalms constitutes a spiritual rinsing of the mouth from idle talk, as well as from the transgression of causing others pain through our speech. Come with your children to cry and pray before G-d and ask forgiveness."”

“So, what the administration is saying is, it's OK to conduct foreign policy outside the State Department, as long as you're a congressional Republican. Bush obviously shunned Pelosi from his delegation and she just said, screw you. I like it.”