Have a PC Xmas

“LOL...we had a priest who decorated the Christmas Tree with bunnies and eggs...told the congregation that the twice a year Christians now could get it out in one visit......”

“The neat thing about soldiers you seem to miss with the EMOTIONAL approach to life is that they serve something bigger. They actually serve to save each other

yes. where do you FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL that i argued against that? my only argument is that memorial day doesnt necessarily HAVE to be a religious holiday. christmas and easter are religious holidays because they are about a religious figure. memorial day is about remembering those we have lost (it was originally only for those in the military, but my family has included all who have passed for as long as i can remember), WHETHER THEY WERE RELIGIOUS OR NOT. I dont have a problem with memorial day services being held in churches, cemetaries, or being conducted by a preacher. but if i understand you correctly, xl, you think memorial day is a religious holiday, and that i have a problem with.
last edited: 12/04/06 10:00:31 AM”

“The real difference between people (I have seen) who make it through Critical Incidents in life and those who lose it (quit) is the Belief that there is SOMETHING bigger than themselves

i call that the Placebo Effect.”

“Nothing I hate worse than religious counterfiting and the perversion of someone else's faith.”

hell, the christians did it first when they overlaid the celebration of christs birth on top of the already existing pagan winter festivals, then you add in the santa claus thing and the insane mass consumer spend spend spend bullshirt. and its not like you got the christians over here quietly praying and blessing baby jesus, and the madding crowd over here at the mall, and then the pagans over here dancing naked around an evergreen tree. instead its all mish-mashed together into one over-the-top christmas carol/jesus-is-the-reason/department store santa/wrapped up in a bow christmas ball”

“I guess you would...since a you have stated your belief or lack there of I can see how you would hold that position.

Sadly you are WRONG. For many the idea of a GOD, or Higher Power is just another "THING" kinda like people who rely on PISSYCHOLOGY and other neat "manmade things" In my experience they work right until the bottom falls out of your life. I have found those with Faith understand that is something much bigger than themselves. Life is not a goal but rather a journey.

You can believe or scoff as you wish....I get to see the scoffers everyday...invariably they prefer not to see their RESPONSIBILITY in life but rather look for ways out of RESPONSIBILITY. Its okay, there are alot of teenager (mentally and emotionally) who refuse to grow up and accept both the blessings and learning opportunities God has placed before them. Those who refuse to see the incredible ability of themselves and their fellow humans...we call LIBERALS. (LOL)...Crash I am not laughing at you...truly I DO know where you are coming from. I was there once and I have faith you will see your potential one day.

By the way I thought I had explained in depth the difference between Faith and Religion. I ma not religious...rather I am Faithful.”

“hell, the christians did it first when they overlaid the celebration of christs birth on top of the already existing pagan winter festivals, then you add in the santa claus thing and the insane mass consumer spend spend spend bullshirt. and its not like you got the christians over here quietly praying and blessing baby jesus, and the madding crowd over here at the mall, and then the pagans over here dancing naked around an evergreen tree. instead its all mish-mashed together into one over-the-top christmas carol/jesus-is-the-reason/department store santa/wrapped up in a bow christmas ball”

Exactly and the Christians get the first good helping of scorn for doing so. The early church fathers hated the idea that the Christians were running around soaking up all the pagan ways like gift giving and such. But at the same time it has become what it has become and it doesn't seem correct for the secular segment of society to overtake and push out the modern originators of the holiday. It's a Christian holiday. Let the Christians have it the way THEY want and leave them alone. Why non believers would even want to celebrate it I have no idea. Why don't the secular non believers celebrate Ramadan too?”

“Two wrongs make a right, right crash?

I believe that by far most Christians wish we could "undo" what has been done to Christmas - I hear it every Christmas from Christians, but like Nigal said what is done is done.”

“Sadly you are WRONG

you dont know that. but i can see why you need to convince yourself that you do.

just another "THING" kinda like people who rely on PISSYCHOLOGY

and you say that i argue from an emotional standpoint? this is why its so hard to take you seriously.

fuego threads aside, i try not to get in the way of people and their faith, because many of them couldnt get by without it. whether its real or whether its placebo remains to be seen.”

“when the christians actually stop gift-giving and putting up trees, then they can complain about how their simple little holiday has been besmirched. but when even mainstream churches are putting up trees in the sanctuary, i dont think thats going to happen any time soon. my moms church (free methodist) puts up a big one every year
last edited: 12/04/06 10:33:07 AM”

“"What if christmas didn't come this year
And no one paid for christmas cheer?
Who would cry the biggest tear,
The child or the store?"
--Primus, To Defy The Laws Of Tradition”

“United Methodists don't really count.”

“i said free methodists.”

“crash - all the Christians could stop putting up trees and giving presents but it won't stop what has happened. The way we deal with it is to "live in the world, but not of the world", meaning we keep in context what is really important (or try our best to do that).

Anyways, if we gave up all that and spent the day fasting you'd find names to call us either way. We're either "hypocrites" or "extremists" to you (depending on the situation) so there is no pleasing you - that's why we try to focus on pleasing God instead.”

“lemme guess. you think methodists are so far to the left theyre a buncha stinkin commies and homo sympathisers. i can guarantee you theyre not”

“I know you did. I said "united" methodists.”

“then why are you saying united methodists dont count? no one was talking about them. do you have a beef with the UM'S?”

“Yeah. A big beef.”

“Anyways, if we gave up all that and spent the day fasting you'd find names to call us either way

if you gave all that up, id say you had real integrity. if you spent the day fasting, id say you were dedicated”

“hmmmmm. this is interesting. what is your beef with the UM church?”

“if you gave all that up, id say you had real integrity. if you spent the day fasting, id say you were dedicated

Bullcrap. The reality is you and others find no opportunity to offer praise for our beliefs - to the contrary you find every opportunity to criticize. I understand it's easy to day you would say those things, but the facts of reality point to a much different conclusion.”

“no, actually, youre wrong. i greatly admire the amish, who i believe to be the one set of christians who actually practice what they preach better than any other denomination”

“the reason i criticize you so much, s-rge, and others like you, is because i believe you are so far off the mark of a christian loving attitude”

“My beef w/ the UMs is how they have messed w/ my mother's mind, and the mind's of millions of people.

On paper, they're great! I have no problem with their written doctrine.

My beef is the method of which they preach. They put into the hearts of their followers "people-centered" ideas instead of "God-centered" ideas. It has become a "feel good" religion versus a "praise God" religion like it once was. Something the Bible warns against.

Anyways, that's not a view held just by me. They're widely held as a sort of joke in the protestant circles, often the butt of good-natured ridicule for their misguided methods. As one common example, they're known for bake sales, but not God-centered preaching. They've basically gotten away from their own beliefs (in writing) and created a "new" religion centered around making people feel good. It's almost like a cult, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it that.

To give an example of why it's my beef - My mother knows in her head if she takes the time to think about it the correct (what is written in the Bible) response to certain questions. But her gut instinct (her heartfelt response) is often wrong, and it's comes from how she was taught in the UM church. She knows for example that the only way to get to Heaven is to accept Lord as your Savior, etc.. But her gut instinct (learned from the way they teach at the UMC), is to say "good people go to Heaven". (even though on paper that's not what they believe)

That's just one example of many - and from talking to many people it is a common problem and the source for the UM church being an "outcast" in born-again Protestant circles.

(to clarify - I'm talking about the UM church, not it's followers)
last edited: 12/04/06 11:36:21 AM”

“"the reason i criticize you so much, s-rge, and others like you, is because i believe you are so far off the mark of a christian loving attitude"

And that is because you project your bias onto me. Nobody who knows me, Christian/atheist/agnostic or otherwise, would even think that for a second. You base your opinion on where you "think" I'm coming from in my responses, but from my experience you are often very wrong in that perception.”

“hmmmm.is joel osteen a UMer?”

““no, actually, youre wrong. i greatly admire the amish, who i believe to be the one set of christians who actually practice what they preach better than any other denomination”

So you think they don't sin (which is what they preach against)?”

““hmmmm.is joel osteen a UMer?”

Beats me but he certainly creeps me out.”

“Nobody who knows me, Christian/atheist/agnostic or otherwise, would even think that for a second

this could very well be true. ive long been of the opinion i would probably like you better in person than online”

“So you think they don't sin (which is what they preach against)?”

of course not. in my opinion, they seem to me to come closer to christs vision than any other. i could be wrong, its just an opinion”

“this is the first ive heard of UM church not believing in salvation. maybe thats just a regional thing.”

“Most people do not believe me (even though I warned this in advance) that the bad "vibes" you see from me are only going to be a reflection of what people send my way. I explained (before starting that long ago) that I would to that to be able to communicate with them because that's the only type of conversation they seem to understand. I realize people don't believe me wben I say that - but if you'd trace how I was before "troll sarge", to when I explained that I would do that, to afterwards, you'd see that's exactly what happened. I've already said it was a mistake b/c the people aren't interested in change, so I'm not going to rehash that - but the bottom line is that people didn't follow enough online conversation to see what/why that was happening.

anyways - what is done is done

Anything you see from me now (since Nov 05) that resembles that is always good natured fun like anybody else on here. People (understandably) don't want to distinguish between old-Sarge and new - so they always assume the worse (some people anyways). I'm fine with that. Usually that's the losers anyways, but I won't mention names of any bald losers.”

“of course not. in my opinion, they seem to me to come closer to christs vision than any other. i could be wrong, its just an opinion

One thing to consider is that God warned against removing yourself from the world (as the Amish try to do). In the short term it makes you appear as having less sin, but you're still a sinful person so it's just a facade. We are to be in the world, but not of the world.”

“this is the first ive heard of UM church not believing in salvation. maybe thats just a regional thing.

Whoa! I didn't say that. Please re-read what I said for clarification.”

““"the reason i criticize you so much, s-rge, and others like you, is because i believe you are so far off the mark of a christian loving attitude"

And that is because you project your bias onto me. Nobody who knows me, Christian/atheist/agnostic or otherwise, would even think that for a second. You base your opinion on where you "think" I'm coming from in my responses, but from my experience you are often very wrong in that perception.”
moonglo
9:32:19 AM
12/04/06

Riight. You're filled with the "turn the other cheek" christmas spirit all year round.
last edited: 12/04/06 12:42:05 PM”

“nevermind
last edited: 12/04/06 12:43:09 PM”

“Yeah, but the hell for typos is just sort of like LA in winter.”

“Moon...regarding the UM church...I attended one of the largest...located on the campus of Southern Methodist University...so I think I can speak with some authority about hypocracy of the UM church.

You are dead on right...but sadly what you say about the UM church I have found in most 'churches" per se. It seems many get to the point where the mission changes from changing ourselves to God's Plan and becomes one of Changing God to meet OUR plan.

As for the Amish...we have the Mennonites down here...great people, fantastic cooks ...not worth a da*n in a Bar Fight.”

“I remember in college we'd go up to a mountain to hike and up there I saw some young (early 20s) Amish girl switching seats (into the driver seat) of some non-Amish dude in his Corvette so she could drive. Out of sight out of mind I guess...”

“What goes Clip Clop, Clip Clop, Clip Clop...Bang...Clip Clop, Clip Clop, Clip Clop”

“an amish drive-by?”

“Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”

“Good heavens....I am sorry but I differentiate between the Secular Christmas Holiday and the Christian Celebration.

Since Christ was probably born in Octoberish (or the cooresponding Premodern calendar).

To me its not a big deal, the Secular season I see as a chance to give a bit of smile and humor in the face of the coming winter. The Christian celebration? He has never left, so he is always here.”

“ditto what XL said.”

“Now you guys can work on separating in your mind government marriage from church marriage.”

“Obviously you haven't read my solution to the gay marriage problem. Do a search for it.”

“marriage....lets see the definition is....OH it is a religious thing. LOL Phaed...its kinda like the Supreme Court decision on the Boy Scouts. The Cooler Cowboys were demanding they be allowed to "become leaders"

So this brought up an interesting situation.
1. Since Chartering Organizations (many of which are CHURCHES) actually approve the leaders...does that mean that the government will tell Churches what they can and cannot set as "right"?
2. Now if Bufu Bobby comes to Smith Church and says, "I want to be a Thcoutmathter." the Church has a Troop #37. So they have to allow him to be a scout leader. Well the rest of #37 says to heck with it...and they decide to start Troop #38 and the Church agrees to charter it....and #37 becomes a troop of one Leader...could Bobby go to #38 and demand to be let in there? Is that mandating who I have to associate with?

I guess my theory of Marriage is that when we look at the Sham Marriages like the Clinton's, or most of the Hollywood/Celebrity Marriages...I would like to see a way that we can get responsibility back into marriage.”

““Obviously you haven't read my solution to the gay marriage problem. Do a search for it.”
moonglo
1:01:11 PM
12/04/06

No, I guess not. I think I might have confused you with Buck in this instance.

I didn't search for it, though.”

“Google was mum on "moonglo's solution to the gay marriage problem".

Is there a problem?
There doesn't seem to be a problem except with religious zealots.
I have no problem with it.

I don't know WTF XL is talkin' about when he says that marriage is defined as a religious thing.

My marriage was performed by a female justice of the peace, a decidedly non-religious ceremony attended by a lot of family and friends.

Last Monday was our 25th anniversary.”

“marko - do a search on this website, you silly dilly”

“No, I guess not. I think I might have confused you with Buck in this instance.

I didn't search for it, though.”
Phaedrus
4:34:16 PM
12/04/06

Where's ole Buck at these days? He was one of the funniest guys around for awhile.”