Freedom Watch

“I’m very incensed today. Today is the first day of the state wide smoking ban here in Ohio. First, let me say I hate eating in smoke filled restaurants. I hate stinking from a concert. I don’t like smoke filled bars. And I hate cancer. But at the same time I love freedom. I love the freedom of a business owner to make their own decisions as to how they will run their business. I also believe in each and every one of our responsibility to decide for ourselves what conditions we want to work in. Freedom and responsibility. I love it.

So conversely I hate those who would seek to undermine these freedoms and responsibilities. Activist organizations that do so using moneys given to them is nothing short of misappropriations of funds imho. Two organizations that will never see another thin dime of my charitable money is the American Lung Association and the American Cancer Society. Not only will I never donate but I will seek to educate others about their aims to further erode freedoms.

Ohio smoking ban to clear the air in public


COLUMBUS, OHIO — Smoking in Ohio is about to undergo a major change.

Starting on Thursday, the state will prohibit smoking in bars, restaurants, bingo halls and private clubs. Even the last bastions of smoke-filled heaven — bowling alleys — will be off-limits.

This is the thrust of one of the toughest anti-smoking laws in the nation, approved by voters last month, making Ohio the first state in the Midwest to go smoke-free.

But the practical effect of the new law may reach far beyond Ohio. Supporters of smoking prohibitions in the workplace and entertainment facilities see the vote in Ohio as a possible tipping point — an indication that years of resistance to smoking restrictions in the Heartland have been futile and that other states may follow.

"If Ohio can do it, any state in the country can do it," said Shelly Kiser of the American Lung Assn. of Ohio. "This movement is not going to stop here."

Eighteen states — mostly in the Northeast and West — have smoking bans, and three more were added as a result of public votes last month in Arizona, Nevada and Ohio.

"I think Ohio is a beachhead in the Midwest and a bellwether in the country," said Daniel Smith, president of the American Cancer Society's Action Network, which organizes legislative activities to pass smoke-free laws. "If you're smoke-free in the heart of the country, that suggests there is growing acceptance of the movement."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-smoke6dec06,1,2138916.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

If you are a truck driver who is passing through Ohio you can not smoke in your own truck. If you own a bar you are charged with enforcing the law and insuring no one breaks the law in your establishment and if you do not you will be held responsible. Unbelievable! This is like a bank teller being held responsible for a bank robbery.


And while I do believe in democracy and the voters of Ohio did vote on the measure I do not believe that the majority can violate the freedoms of the minority. There are measures being taken to try and overturn the new law and with luck it will be found unconstitutional.


Freedom; it means putting up with things we may not agree with or like.”

“Welcome to the Nanny Government.”

“LAUGH FACTORY BANS DAMON WAYANS: Comedian used N-word after Kramer incident led to its removal from the premises.

*Looks like Damon Wayans has become the first casualty of the Laugh Factory’s newly-instituted N-word free zone.

The comedian used the term 16 times during his 20-minute set Sunday night and was promptly banned from performing at the venue for the next three months, reports the LA Times.

Wayans’ act referred to the racist rant of “Seinfeld” star Michael Richards that caused the N-word ban to be instituted.

"I'll be damned if the white man uses that word last. …This is part of our culture now...don't take that from us," Wayans told the audience.

The actor was also fined $320 for his routine - $20 for each time he used the word.

The syndicated TV show “Inside Edition” sought the opinion of director Spike Lee on the Laugh Factory’s N-word ban. The director told the syndicated television program: "I think as a people we have to try to eradicate that word."

But rapper Jay-Z, who uses the word in his lyrics, disagrees with a formal ban, telling the show last week: "I'm against that, I'm all for freedom of speech." He added, "You have to fix the people that have hatred inside their soul."

http://eurweb.com/story/eur30152.cfm

Good for him. I hate racists but I love the freedom of speech. And isn't unpopular speech in the most need of protecting?”

“I have no problems w/ a company "fining" a contractor for violating its agreed upon rules.

Great first post btw.”

“did somebody say free watches? cool. mines busted”

“And lets see....they are banning FAT in NY...I wonder how long until BIG SUGAR or BIG MILK or any one of a MILLION other reasons for Taking Care of us will be forced down our throats.

LOL I wonder how a Governor would react if a Mayor said, "Great law, I am ordering my Police NOT TO ENFORCE IT."? Like the illegal alien sanctuaries, and what not in California.....”

“I look at it this way, Nigal. Sure, you're free to smoke your cig. You're just not free to give me cancer, too. That's why wait staff have been sucessful in getting it banned. It's passive murder. Sure, commit suicide if you want but just don't take me with you. I look at it like you're impeding MY freedom if you're forcing me to breathe your smoke.

CA has a smoking ban and I moved here from ATL where smoking in restaurants and bars was the norm. I've come to love it and when I return to ATL to visit, have a really hard time with the bars where the smoke is thick, burns my eyes, makes me stink, etc.”

“If you are a truck driver who is passing through Ohio you can not smoke in your own truck

actually, if you own your truck, the ban does not apply, from what ive been told by a trucker at work. he owns his own rig. the ban applies to commercially owned vehicles”

“but, rosey, if i cant put tar and nicotine into my lungs, the terrorists win”

“I think you should be allowed to put whatever the hell you want into your body. That is freedom. But when it impacts me and my personal well being, then you're impacting MY freedom and that is where the line should be drawn.”

“btw, i was being sarcastic”

“btw, i was being sarcastic. i actually agree with you”

“I know, Crash. Just beating a dead horse...”

““I look at it this way, Nigal. Sure, you're free to smoke your cig."

It's not about smoker's rights Rosey. It's about private business owner's rights.”

“You're just not free to give me cancer, too. That's why wait staff have been sucessful in getting it banned. It's passive murder.

Don't go into private businesses that allow smoking then. As far as working there you also have the freedom to choose NOT to work in a smoking environment. There are thousands of places that choose not to allow smoking. We've had many many places that were smoke free before the ban.

How about janitors who work with cleaning solvents that cause cancer? Shouldn't we ban all things that can cause canser and protect them too?”

“Next you'll want to ban words like, 'Bush', or,'Blair'.”

“Exactly. Private business != public land”

“Should companies be allowed to put any substance they want into a food product? OTC product?

What's the line?

most of us will make it past our twenties thanks to a "Nanny Government".”

“It's about private business owner's rights.

That's why a club should be allowed to ban a performer from using certain words.”

“I feel the same way about seat-belt and helmet laws.
You could even make the same argument for legalized prostitution and drugs.”

““Should companies be allowed to put any substance they want into a food product? OTC product?"

That's not what it's about. It's about a business owner's right to allow the consumption of a legal product on their property. How about scotch? That's not exactly health food is it? Damages your liver as well as leads to alcoholism. How about we ban alcohol too?

Like you said, where's the line?”

““I feel the same way about seat-belt and helmet laws.
You could even make the same argument for legalized prostitution and drugs.”

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! I'm for legalizing both drugs and ho's.”

“It's about private business owner's rights to allow smokers to violate my right to clean air

in a way, i agree with nigal and s-rge, also. if theyre gonna ban it, really ban it. everywhere. period.

what i would have liked to have seen happen is not ban smoking, but require that smoking sections in restaurants be walled-off from the non-smoking sections. you think your second-hand smoke is so harmless? good. sit in it and breathe it in”

“How is the alcohol thing a good comparison? No one has to drink it except for the person who orders it. Same with drugs and prostitution. If everyone in an entire restaurant/club had to have some of the alcohol, drugs, and hos one person orders, including children, would that be okay?”

“That's why a club should be allowed to ban a performer from using certain words

so nanny government = bad
nanny club rules = good”

““It's about private business owner's rights to allow smokers to violate my right to clean air

You have a right to clean air on private property? Do tell.

in a way, i agree with nigal and s-rge, also. if theyre gonna ban it, really ban it. everywhere. period.

Even less freedom then. That is the wrong direction.

what i would have liked to have seen happen is not ban smoking, but require that smoking sections in restaurants be walled-off from the non-smoking sections.

A very good idea. I'd be all for it.

you think your second-hand smoke is so harmless? good. sit in it and breathe it in”

No one was suggesting it's not harmless.”

“That's not what it's about. It's about a business owner's right to allow the consumption of a legal product on their property. How about scotch? That's not exactly health food is it? Damages your liver as well as leads to alcoholism. How about we ban alcohol too?

Like you said, where's the line?”
Nigal
11:41:59 AM
12/07/06

OK.


At least I can have fun with alcohol! No one says: Let's go get ripped on some Marlboros!

Maybe someday the FDA will grow some balls and ban smoking. :D”

“. And isn't unpopular speech in the most need of protecting?”

until you criticize the prez, then its "if you dont shut up, the terrorists win"”

““How is the alcohol thing a good comparison? No one has to drink it except for the person who orders it. Same with drugs and prostitution. If everyone in an entire restaurant/club had to have some of the alcohol, drugs, and hos one person orders, including children, would that be okay?”

It was in response to Bear's post about banning things with bad things in them.”

“OK.


At least I can have fun with alcohol! No one says: Let's go get ripped on some Marlboros!

Maybe someday the FDA will grow some balls and ban smoking. :D”

See, this is the crux of being either for freedom or merely for YOUR freedoms. You don't like what's in tobacco so it should be banned. But what's bad in liquor is A-ok. Don't ban it. Liking freedom is standing up for someone else's freedoms even though you don't like it.”

“You have a right to clean air on private property? Do tell

a restaurant may be private property, but its still public space. its not like i went over to somebodys house and birched about the smoke

Even less freedom then. That is the wrong direction.

actually, i agree with you there. what i was trying to convey is that this public smoking ban is really a compromise between those who want smoking eradicated, and those who want to smoke. what i was trying to say was, either allow it, or ban it entirely. no compromising

No one was suggesting it's not harmless

maybe not on this particular thread, but ive heard pro-smokers many many times say second-hand smoking is harmless”

“See, this is the crux of being either for freedom or merely for YOUR freedoms. You don't like what's in tobacco so it should be banned. But what's bad in liquor is A-ok. Don't ban it. Liking freedom is standing up for someone else's freedoms even though you don't like it.”
Nigal
11:55:43 AM
12/07/06

I like what's in tobacco. Liked it for a long time. I fight the urge often. Except when I'm in a bar full of smokers. Smoking does nothing for you. Alcohol makes me sexy as hell. :D”

“a restaurant may be private property, but its still public space. its not like i went over to somebodys house and birched about the smoke

If you walk into a place that allows smoking and you still choose to stay then you acquiescent to put up with smoke. To complain about it is like going to a gay strip club and complaining there's too much cock on the stage. LOL!

"actually, i agree with you there. what i was trying to convey is that this public smoking ban is really a compromise between those who want smoking eradicated, and those who want to smoke. what i was trying to say was, either allow it, or ban it entirely. no compromising"

The compromise in in the freedoms. The owner is free to let people smoke in their place and you are free to take your dollars and go where the smoke is not. Money talks.”

“"I like what's in tobacco. Liked it for a long time. I fight the urge often. Except when I'm in a bar full of smokers. Smoking does nothing for you. Alcohol makes me sexy as hell. :D”

Tell the management that you want a smoke free place to drink then and if he doesn't change it your money will go elsewhere. Or find a place that is smoke fee. Freedom from smoke is no less a right than freedom from religion dude.”

“Nigal, for arguments sake, smoking could be considered a violation of health standards. Restuarants in particular, must have health standards because they serve food. I am not sure about this, but couldn't food absorb nicotine?

Somehow, I feel more strongly about restaurants and smoking vs. say, a mechanic's garage and smoking.”

“If you walk into a place that allows smoking and you still choose to stay then you acquiescent to put up with smoke.


i guess that leaves me the choice to either go out or stay at home, because until all this talk about banning, virtually every restaurant allowed smoking. no restaurant is going to ban smoking if they dont have to because it will cost them money.

my choice on where to eat should be about the food and service, not whether or not i wanna avoid coughing up a lung.”

““Nigal, for arguments sake, smoking could be considered a violation of health standards. Restuarants in particular, must have health standards because they serve food. I am not sure about this, but couldn't food absorb nicotine?

OK, for the sake of argument lets assume that food can, in deed, absorb nicotine. And lets assume you do eat it. How much nicotine would it take to harm you? Food wouldn't be able to absorb that much nicotine in that amount of time. The caffeine in your cup of coffee is more harmful than a plate full of nicotine absorbed food. And I do agree with you about restaurants being a bigger issue. I hate smoking restaurants and I don't go to them if I can help it. I think a smoking section in a restaurant is like a peeing section in a swimming pool. Doesn't mean it should be banned though.”

“Tell the management that you want a smoke free place to drink then and if he doesn't change it your money will go elsewhere. Or find a place that is smoke fee. Freedom from smoke is no less a right than freedom from religion dude.”
Nigal
12:14:33 PM
12/07/06

A smoke free dive? impossible without a ban! I think we're headed towards a complete tobacco ban someday. And I'm thinking it's inevitable. I'm not sure how I feel about govt. bans on it. I see both sides.

DC goes smoke free Jan 1.”

“i guess that leaves me the choice to either go out or stay at home, because until all this talk about banning, virtually every restaurant allowed smoking. no restaurant is going to ban smoking if they dont have to because it will cost them money.

We have gobs of them here that do not allow it.


my choice on where to eat should be about the food and service, not whether or not i wanna avoid coughing up a lung.”

If sitting in the non smoking section you cough up a lung chances are you should be in an oxygen tent. How do you hike with such poor lungs anyhow? I can sit in the non smoking section of Ruby Tuesdays and I don't even smell smoke from the bar much less feel ill from it.”

“A smoke free dive? impossible without a ban!

Wait a second here. The truth.org (oxy-moron) commercials keep telling everyone over 80% of America doesn't smoke. All the 80+% have to do is stand up and say they want a place to go.”

“To complain about it is like going to a gay strip club and complaining there's too much cock on the stage. LOL!

thats a really crappy comparison. whats the percentage of strip clubs that are gay in your neighborhood vs the percentage of restaurants that allowed smoking before the ban? in my community, we have 5 t&a shows, no gay strip clubs, and every restaurant allowed smoking before the ban. so where exactly was i supposed to take my dollar?”

“I think many orgs tell the truth. however, I agree that figure is prolly BS. The "only smoke while drinking crowd" does not consider themselves smokers.
There are two bar scenarios I do miss as an ex-smoker:

I.
Putz: Can I bum a smoke?
Me: The machines right there
Putz: I only smoke when I drink
Me: Buy a pack and pass 'em out to the others

or

Me: It's the cost of a drink. If your that cheap you shouldn't be in here.

II.
Putz: Got an extra cigarrette?
Me: (after I open my pack and count them) No.
last edited: 12/07/06 11:37:11 AM”

“thats a really crappy comparison. whats the percentage of strip clubs that are gay in your neighborhood vs the percentage of restaurants that allowed smoking before the ban? in my community, we have 5 t&a shows, no gay strip clubs, and every restaurant allowed smoking before the ban. so where exactly was i supposed to take my dollar?”

We have 20 strip clubs and of these 3 are gay. We have about 1,234 restaurants in the area and of these 73.4% were smoke free and we had two restaurants where you could eat with your cock out. And one where you could eat with your cock out AND smoke.

Joking.

The point of my joke was when you go in someplace you expect what to find and to complain otherwise is silly. I find it highly unlikely that there are NO places where smoking was not allowed. There are national chains that do not allow it.

And seriously, how much risk can there be to a person to sit in a restaurant for an hour and eat when only a small fraction of those there are smoking? If you eat out even twice a week you are exposed to a diluted amount of smoke for two out of 168 hours in the week.
last edited: 12/07/06 11:39:24 AM”

“ 73.4% were smoke free

must be nice”

“You missed the line where I said I was joking, right? :)

in the end it is not about weather it is harmful or not. We all know it is. the question is, who should determine what legal activities and substances can be consumed in a private business? The business owner, or the government?”

“the question is, who should determine what legal activities and substances can be consumed in a private business? The business owner, or the government?”

well, actually, the good citizens of ohio determined it when they voted”

“well, actually, the good citizens of ohio determined it when they voted”

Yes they did but the constitutionality of it remains to be hashed out.”

“the good citizens of America voted for Bush too, so I guess you're cool w/ that then”

“actually, the bad citizens of the u.s. voted dumbya in

;-)”

“oh, and technically, in the '00 election, the citizens voted gore in. the electoral college voted bush in”