You're the new Sec of Defense

“You could kill nearly every person in that country(fill in the blank) and the few who remain would be more dedicated than ever to paying you/me/us back for murdering their people.
MARKYPOO

Well that explains why we got such Violent insurgency stuff in Germany and Japan following the war......(Marky, stick with stuff you can FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL about...facts tend to trip you up).”

“What is it today, Oxycontin??

Germany and Japan were not colonies, XLax.
In fact they were colonizing nations.

No oil or rubber in Germany and Japan......either.”

“Neither Germany nor Japan are anything like Iraq. When the US invaded Iraq, it disturbed a very delicate balance of power (a stand-off is likely a better description) between factions that have been at war off and on for many centuries. It will take the cooperation of governments we really would rather not deal with like Iran and Syria and likely the entire international community to hammer out any sort of workable solution.

A military victory is not possible in Iraq for the reasons cited by Mark O and because of the imbalance we caused in the middle east by toppling Saddam without having a plan regarding what to do next.”

“Kinda like Bosnia...( you do know that Slick said we would be out of there in One year right?) the day we leave they will go back to killing each other...(LOL) been doing it since Alexander the Great.

I truly think if we had gone in with a real SHOCK and AWE campaign there would be very little of the violence now. For instance I wonder what would have happened if Sherman had not been so destructive in his march to the coast? If the feel goods had been running that war, how long would hit have dragged on?
last edited: 12/19/06 3:55:57 PM”

“Bosnia??

What's the U.S. death toll...................up until now?

The intervention in Bosnia stands as a pretty good model for stopping violence and preventing further violence.

Yeah, Poppy Bush simply ignored it for a few years as the violence escalated.”

“XL, while the John Wayne method - "kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out" - is effect on wars where many outside interests are not involved; this war isn't just about Iraq or toppling Saddam.

1. Iraq is sitting on the largest proven oil reserve in the world - and many different groups would like to get their hands on that oil. Many believe this is why GWB insisted on invading Iraq though the intelligence info regarding Saddam's activities and weapons was embarrassingly weak

2. The Sunni and Shiite Muslim sects as well as number of less well-known Muslim factions have an interest in the nature of the government set up in Iraq.

3. Iraq is sitting on Iran’s border. Iran has a legitimate national security interest in what goes on in Iraq.

4. Iraq is setting in the midst of the Middle East. Some nations in the area fear that the US is an imperial superpower that is attempting to colonize the Middle East one country at a time. England has done this very thing in the area in the past and some in the ME fear it is happening again.

However, the biggest reason "kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out" will not work anywhere in the ME is that governments there are very closely tied to the religious establishment. You can’t topple one without harming the other. Defending the religion is what Jihad – holy war – is all about. The more aggressively we attack the ME militarily, the more credence we give the extremists’ claims that we are attacking the religion. They use this to recruit members to groups like Al Qaeda in surrounding nations who will come into Iraq to defend their Muslim brethren and Muslim way of life.”

“1. Since you claim to be a grandmother...um you do remember the previous administration fully supported the "WMD threat" etc. There are quote after quote from Slick, Thunder Thighs et al that support the danger of the Iraqi Nation under Saddam....You also probably remember (I hear Ginko works) that they violated almost EVERY UN sanction treaty from the End of the Gulf War to ...well when Bush had to go in and pay the dues on 8 years of Baby Boomer (I.e. the DEBRIS Generation) free ride mentality.

2. Heck yes, the Surrounding Governments are petrified of a thriving democracy going in next door. MY Lord, since the invasion, Lybia went nice, Saudi has had women admitted to vote, Kuwait has had to ease up its treatment of women...heck Nothing worse for a totalitarian government than a democracy growing next door (REF the Soviets).

3. Iran has a security interest? Um yeah Iraq without Saddam is no threat. The Iranians support the terrorists because they are Islamo Fascists who hate Us, not for our support of Isreal, not for our freedom but becuase we are NOT BELIEVERS.

4. OOOH the old Global Imperialisim charge...hmm...worked in 1960 real well (okay this is 2006 so put down the bong and the tie dyed peace symbol) but please name a "colony" we still hold...?

You know I heard the challenge that WAR is too violent from the pathetic media in the Gulf War. I still remember the blithering WHORE of a reporterette asking General Schwartzkopf why we kept blowing the Iraqis away even though their army was defeated....It took until Katrina to get the proper answer for the media, "Stuck on Stupid"

Dino, I highly suggest you put down the NY TIMES/Washington Post, turn off ABCNBCCBSCNNPMSNBC and check the stories for yourself.”

“XL, I rarely view American media - too biased and limited.

Not all members of Congress were given access to the entirety of the info we had about Saddam and WMD due to national security interest. Only a handful of Republicans were given that privilege and they assured the rest that the synopsis they were viewing was accurate. Now that the whole thing is out, it is apparent they lied. The UN Security council members who got to view the whole thing knew the case for WMD was weaker than a newborn kitten so why didn't GWB, his advisors and the handful of Congressmen?

Why do conservatives generally use the 'they violated the rules, so it is OK for us to do so as well' argument? This rationale doesn't hold up well -- we call them inhumane terrorists for a reason....

Iran does not care if you are a believer or not - until you cross their border or move in next door and start influencing their country.

I don't have a bong or any tie-dyes that fit :D - GWB is the most imperialist president we've had since the 1950 IMO. He scares me.

XL, I highly suggest you turn off FAUX and go read some news from a credible source.”

“Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

You are funny, Dino.”

“Why is this funny, StoveWrecker?”

“Well, so far I've been in office since about Monday, and I've not done a damn thing. I think tomorrow I'll call Condi and see if she's free Friday night. I found a great little fondue place in Georgetown.”

“OKEE DOKE DINO

Not all members of Congress were given access to the entirety of the info we had about Saddam and WMD due to national security interest. Only a handful of Republicans were given that privilege and they assured the rest that the synopsis they were viewing was accurate.

And now the List of the Senate and House Intelligence committees (look em up)...(bipartisan means BOTH PARTIES). ITS CALLED a Civics/Government class look into it. Additoinally there was the Senate and House Armed Service Committees.

Look Clinton (remember him) and his beyotch and Sandy Burgler (you know the guy who stole and then destroyed documents to prevent the 9/11 Commission from seeing them) all have quote after quote after quote running right up until 2001 about how dangerous Iran was. Pop a couple of Ginko, Google the subjects and check it out. I don't mind debate, but lets be honest the IMPERIALST DOG SWINE crap died in 1989 with the rest of your panty waist Socialist dreams. You probably don't even know the meaning of most of the words you are using....but they sounded good when Hanoi Jane and company used them.”

“OH dino...I just wonder what would happen if a Republican Had done this with evidence??????

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2741356”

“It wouldn't be pushed down below headlines about Rosie O'Donnel.”

“What would happen if a Rep did what Burgler did - hpefully, the same thing that happened to him -- a criminal conviction and the end of his career in political posts. Your implication that nothing was done because he was a Dem is just plain wrong. Both Reps and Dems have a spotty history at best in policing their own.

I'm wondering when Foley and the top members of the Rep party who knew about the perv and hid that slimy sexual predator are going be charged. I guess it is going to have to wait until the new crew takes over in January. The Reps could have regained some crediblity with the American public by not trying to sweep this under the rug when it came out.

As for all members of the House Intelligence committee getting the full story -- go back and check on that. As I understood it, only the house and senate majority leaders (both Rep) and the head of the intelligence committee (also Rep) were given that info. National security interest were given as the reason. If you can provide proof that the entire Intelligence Committee was given the info, I will retract my statement.”

“"....please name a "colony" we still hold...?"

Liberia

Colonialism isn't exactly dead, Liberia is nominally independent with a lot of control by corporate outsiders.
Firestone has run a million acre rubber plantation there since 1926.
Slave labor practices have not really changed there in 80 years.
If the workers don't make their quota the wages are halved so they have their children work too.”

“Maybe the new guy'll toss the term, 'sectarian violence' and use the proper, 'religious ethnic cleansing', to discribe the mess we're in.”

“"Why do conservatives generally use the 'they violated the rules, so it is OK for us to do so as well' argument? "


Easy. This fallacy (in this case, Tu Quoque) sounds good to the ears of the Republican party and works/ed to perpetuate an action which was fool-hardy at best. Shake the sabre, wave the flag and make people choose a side; this is textbook bifurcation for what we just went through with the Bush Administration.

While pretty much all politicians use fallacy when talking to the public, it is the Republicans use of fallacy that has turned this country against itself (using the fallacy in such context as "Either you're with us, or against us." and the ever popular "You cannot support the troops and oppose the war."

Using fallacy is an easy way to get the peoples support when you have no solid platform in which to promote action. However, as we have seen with the recent election, the people can grow tired of the fallacy and vote for change.


edited for spelling and term correction
last edited: 12/21/06 9:36:24 AM”

“Liberia

LOL”

“Liberia? Isn't that somewhere around Vulva?”

“As for all members of the House Intelligence committee getting the full story -- go back and check on that. As I understood it, only the house and senate majority leaders (both Rep) and the head of the intelligence committee (also Rep) were given that info. National security interest were given as the reason. If you can provide proof that the entire Intelligence Committee was given the info, I will retract my statement.”
WOW..Dino..the term Dementia keeps popping up in my diagnoses...yeah the House and Senate were lied too (LOL).

As for Burglar he is getting a slap on the wrist, heck his ( I returned everything is BS and we know it) but you libbies will let him walk.

You use the cute run of Foley line...we now know that he was a sick man, the pages now have admitted leading him on...and you crucified him (granted if the Republicans had turned him out they would have been homophobic,) but you keep supporting William Jefferson (Democrat Loousyanna) Ted Kennedy (ONE woman DEAD), Alcee Hastings (Can you say IMPEACHED?)

MarkO...believe it or not Corporations are NOT the United States (you blithering Pregnant Goldfish). So as ususal your shot in the dark hit you right in the foot.

Lactose...don't go there with the "We support the troops but oppose their mission" crap...been dealt with before...you lost and cried about it. (LOL)”

“"Lactose...don't go there with the "We support the troops but oppose their mission" crap...been dealt with before...you lost and cried about it"


Yawn.

Thank you very much for providing the clear example of what I spoke about. You are the best example anyone could point to for what is exactly wrong with the Republican party.

Perhaps if you to insult me a few more times, your claim will be supported?

Break us off another piece of that knowledge, XL. We all could use a good laugh to send us into the holiday weekend!!

flmao!”

“MarkO...believe it or not Corporations are NOT the United States (you blithering Pregnant Goldfish). So as ususal your shot in the dark hit you right in the foot. - XL

Uh, You're not going to make an impression on MarkO. According to that hippy doofus, "big business" and/or Wallstreet runs the show, started the Iraq war, and is pretty much responsible for all that's wrong in America.

Let's not even start on his theories of giving nations nukes for basing rights and other insightful gems of geopolitics.

Everytime I picture MarkO, I see Chong.
last edited: 12/21/06 9:57:52 AM”

“"MarkO...believe it or not Corporations are NOT the United States (you blithering Pregnant Goldfish). So as ususal your shot in the dark hit you right in the foot."
XL

That's correct, you malodorous puke, and they call in the muscle(U.S. armed forces) when unhappy with the natives.

Haiwaii 1890's and on.

In the case of Liberia Charles Taylor "mysteriously escaped" a U.S. prison in the '80s only to show up with a rebel army to overthrow the government there.
They couldn't very well send the Marines in that day.”

“XL wrote: ...but you keep supporting William Jefferson (Democrat Loousyanna) Ted Kennedy (ONE woman DEAD), Alcee Hastings (Can you say IMPEACHED?)

Please show me where I indicated I support any of these people... It's news to me. XL, you really need to realize that as an independent I look at politicans as individuals. Foley and crew got mentioned together because they are all part of the same mess. As for the pages leading Foley on - this in no way excuses the material he discussed with the pages nor giving alcohol to minors, nor does it excuse the leaders in the Rep party who helped cover it up.”

“Everytime I picture MarkO, I see Chong.
last edited: 12/21/06 9:57:52 AM”
Mutt
9:57:36 AM
12/21/06

LOL mutt, the always stoned one.”

““As for all members of the House Intelligence committee getting the full story -- go back and check on that. As I understood it, only the house and senate majority leaders (both Rep) and the head of the intelligence committee (also Rep) were given that info. National security interest were given as the reason. If you can provide proof that the entire Intelligence Committee was given the info, I will retract my statement.”
WOW..Dino..the term Dementia keeps popping up in my diagnoses...yeah the House and Senate were lied too (LOL).The Ad Hominem fallacy is the refuge of those who do not have any facts to support their contention.[url]http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html [/url]I believe GWB and his chronies lied their tushies off to the Senate and the House about what information they had regarding Saddam.”

“Dr. XL Frist, head of diagnostics, says you're sick ---Soo you're sick. Smoke a fat one before you return.”

“MarkO/.....Hawaii...1890????? WOW and you get on me about World War II comments.

Dino I personally love the Independent Moderate line....being Moderate means not having the Guts to admit you are a Liberal. You cannot be an independent and so closely follow the standard hippy garbage of the liberal press. But go with the dream. Now you need to go back and study the situation.
1. The Iraqis refused entry to the UN Inspectors. (If you have nothing to hide why not let them in.

2. There is ample evidence that most of the Stuff went to Syria.

3. There have been stories of Nuke, bio and Chem weapons components found in Iraq. Okay not in the amounts of say Anniston Alabama but enough to have killed a few hundred thousand (I have quoted the sites too many times to do it again).

4. EVEN the advisors to Saddam admit they were telling HIM that he had the capacity (whether a lie or not) this still means he WAS under the impression he had weapons that were banned as a result of him getting his butt kicked in 1991.

5. Now in your little world it may be acceptable to let people cheat on treaties...but I bet when the North and South ended the War of Southern Independence if the South had killed off every carpet bagger or started randomly violating the agreements....You would have called for them to enforce the laws ( you remember that right (LOL)?

FINALLY and most importantly...the main Intel report we used was from the British (why...well slick had ended our ability to deal with less than savory charachters (rather ironic) and had destroyed our Human Intel networks) they STILL STAND BEHIND the report.”

“Someone just kicked the jack out from under the stock market, see ya.”

“Everytime I picture MarkO, I see Chong.
last edited: 12/21/06 10:57:52 AM”
Mutt
10:57:36 AM
12/21/06

Every time I picture Mutt, I see a short-haired yellow-bellied right-wing version of Wayne Campbell living in his mom's basement.
Instead of, "party time, excellent!!", its "we'll rule the world!!".
And instead of playing electric guitar he's practicing in front of a mirror quick-draw with his six-shooter.”

“Why is this funny, StoveWrecker?”
Frolicking Dino
5:05:50 PM
12/20/06

Tisk, tisk...
Just another name caller.
Figures....
I see that she's about as open minded as markO, and I will treat her with the proper respect from here on out.
LOL”

“Sorry about the name StoveStomper... I was typing from memory. No slight was intended.

XL - I have never claimed to be an independent MODERATE. There are people I agree with in red and in blue... and my political positions are all over the chart depending on what issue we are discussing. On the war in Iraq, I believe GWB and chronies lead us down a primrose path of destruction. GWB & Rummy were totally clueless about what was going to be involved and GWB doesn't have the brains or the guts to admit he was wrong, wrong, wrong. That's probably considered a liberal view in your world.

There have been all sorts of rumors about what was found and 'leaked' reports (mostly on FOX and about as reliable as the National Enquirer), but no one from the UN is colaberating any of the reports. If GWB and crew had any sort of real proof, it would have been broadcast worldwide - but it hasn't because it doesn't exist.”

“LOL!”

“Dino, these guys don't care.

Like the war mongers used to say 35-40 years ago, "Quit complaining, its the only war we've got."

To some war gives our country real purpose and they can't be bothered with silly details like "why did they lie to us?".”

“If I were the new Sec of Defense, I'd blame everything on Canada and then start a new cold war with our neighbors to the north.”

“How cute, markO is obsessed with me.”

“We should import some Iraqi military to protect us from Canada. Good eye Zac.”

“The name-calling and personal slams here aren't my cup of tea. I prefer to debate with people who have more substance and self-respect. Mark O, you're one of the few regulars here that seems to understand the difference between meaningless rhetoric and true debate - Do you know of any good site for a true discussion?”

“Seeing as how you have yet to give anything but personal opinion and rhetoric...I can see your point...(LOL)....”

“Dino, I spend too much time on this site as it is.
I should not "diversify" or I would get nothing done.

I enjoy poking these guys with a sharp stick now and then and watch the meaningless rhetoric ooze out.”

“Mark O, you're one of the few regulars here that seems to understand the difference between meaningless rhetoric and true debate - Dino

LOL - That made my day! See my above post concerning some of mark's version of "true debate". For Mark, everything is a Big Business conspiracy theory (gee, you think that's "rhetoric"?). He's the single most clueless person on here. Perhaps you haven't been on long enough to know that. I mean, Violin and tilt are more with it than Mark, for crying out loud. That says a lot, coming from me. Call this a "personal slam" if you want, but it's the God honest truth. And I even agree with Mark whole-heartedly when it comes to religion! But when it comes to geopolitics in particular, he's as thick as a plank. Period.”

“That sharp stick isn't helping adjust the yo-yo strings.”

“Oh My God!!!!!

I LOVE this Dino gal!!!!!
So FUNNY!!!!!!!!
..and such a keen sense of true character!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL”

“no one from the UN is colaberating any of the reports.
Frolicking Dino
1:15:04 PM
12/21/06

Oh my God, the Un isn't collaborating reports?? Tell me it ain't so!! That bastion of integrity, that organization that is so meaningful and relevant!! You don't want people watching "Faux" News, but you want them to put stock in what the Un does or approves?”

“"That bastion of integrity (the UN), that organization that is so meaningful and relevant!! You don't want people watching "Faux" News, but you want them to put stock in what the Un does or approves?”
Watch FOX if you want, but realize it is about as reliable as the National Enquirer. There are media outlets on the left that are equally unreliable -- and personally I don't feel any of the American media (regardless of political stance) is all that reliable.

If I had to believe the UN or the current administration - the UN wins hands down for integrity.

If GWB had anything to report about finding WMD in Iraq, he would be shouting from the top of the White House to keep from looking like a fool for invading that country. He has pretty much nothing - tiny amounts of things that used to be part of WMD, no ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda, no proof Saddam had ties to any terrorist organization except Hamas and then only to the branch that is working against the Iranian government.

If you start examining the money, long-term relationships and current relationships - you will find the Bush clan is closely aligned with the Bin Laden family. While the Bin Laden family has publicly denounced Osama, guess who is caring for Osama's wivies and children and who does their negotiating with the Saudi government (the Saudi government openly pays Al Qaeda not to bother them)? Hmmm... methinks GWB may have reasons other than threat of WMD for starting a war in Iraq and abandoning the search for Osama.”

“the UN wins hands down for integrity - DINO

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I LOVE this woman!”

“"the UN wins hands down for integrity - DINO

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I LOVE this woman!”
StoveStomper
11:12:16 AM
12/22/06"


Personally, what's going on in our government and the UN are pretty much a tie in my book.

Perhaps we are just holding up a mirror to the UN?


lol!”