Marriage is NOT for Sissies!!!

“I agree with Birch - divorce is tough on kids. Sometimes it is the better for the kids than parents staying together, I'd be very careful before having an opinion about any particular divorce.

Deciding to divorce is a tough decision and usually there are plenty of tough decisions that follow - its hard to get them all right. It's also hard to be sure both sides will be adults about it. When my wife said she wanted a divorce and refused counseling, I thought we could be adults about it. We went to a mediator and worked out a great plan - and then she went to a lawyer and kept grabbing more and more, and the kids started objecting to the custody plan and she refused to listen to what they wanted (she was sure I'd brainwashed them) and things got worse from there. I sitll don't know if it I sold them out through my compromises or prevented a total melt down by backing down.”

“make-up sex ROCKS! :)”
spirit coyote
8:21:57 AM
3/08/07


Why do you think guys start fights?”

“Because they don't like it when they print stuff off for their business and find polly pocket is on the back when they hand the bid to their customer?”

“hahahaha”

“I was just trying to recycle.”

“recycle birch's business back to where it started ;)”

“XL and Stovey - you're both phonies and hypocrites. When you offend someone publicly, you don't apologize privately. That's what cowards do. I've told you both before that I see you as being about being "right" than getting to the real truth of anything. Today's posts only reinforce the disgust that I have for the two of you.”

“oh hell, is time to start drawing teams? If so, let me know what happens, I'm going for a walk.”

“Lighten up, Francis.

Sass is fully capable of fighting her own battles, very well, as you saw.
last edited: 3/08/07 12:20:05 PM”

“*Warning! Thinking aloud here!*

Interesting thoughts, ped. As a person with no experience can I suggest maybe everything shouldn't be about the kids?

I'm not trying to be harsh or judgemental on anyone who has had to go through it and maybe I'm not expressing it well enough but........ maybe when deciding whether or not to break up, one should only consider the two main parties involved?

And you can never be sure if staying together or separating is worse on the kids, no? You'll never know, in fact, because you can only choose one path.

Also - One is trying to pick the lesser of two perceived evils for a third party. The third party in turn, can't know whats best until looking back on it. And then still may not know

Whatever happens, happens. No?

Final babble stretch.......and this may be a little tangential and even surreal......My Father died when I was really young. Do I regret it? Sort of (the surreal part). I like who I am. That's a powerful influence to lose with no replacement. I can easily say I would not be me if he did not die. One could argue I may not even be alive if he had survived.

Or maybe I would have even a more fantastic life than I do now? This is all conjecture accept that I would not be me. My life would have taken a very different path. I would not, for example, have met Dani.

In the end, I'm glad life has happened exactly as it has happened. Therefore I can not regret my Fathers death.

And now my head hurts...

In the end the kids will survive. One makes a choice and you can't ever say it was the wrong choice.

I think...”

“How do you know you wouldn't have met Dani? And you must not spend much time around kids if you think there are only 2 main parties in a family. (unless you mean us (the parents) against them (the kids). :)

And last, would you feel any different about your dad if instead of dying he just decided to walk out?”

“By the same token, on that philosphy bent, One makes a choice and you can't ever say it was the right choice.... OR... the right or wrong choice.

Same thing... you just don't know.”

“You have to try and make the best of bad choices.”

“Sass is fully capable of fighting her own battles, very well, as you saw.
last edited: 3/08/07 12:20:05 PM”
StoveStomper
12:17:43 PM
3/08/07


Yes she is very capable of fighting her own battles as is XL.

So why did you step in to tell XL to email her privately? You had no dog (no pun intended) in the hunt. You basically did what nimblefoot did. He ran to Sass's rescue while you ran to XL's.

Just an observation from what I saw..take it any way you want.”

“Nimble, I try to keep the personal insults on the Fuego threads.
I feel no anger toward you and respect others opinions if given in a civil manner.
You do tend to be very intolerant of other's opinions. That's OK with me. Whatever floats your boat.”

“And why did Ewker step in???? LOL

I consider both Sass and XL to be friends.
Suggesting XL email a 'sorry' wasn't defending him.”

“hyway - I lost my Father when I was 5. That is a major influence gone. My path from that influence diverged more and more as the years went on. Every choice I made from childhood to a young adult was void of that influence.

Just looking at it economically, we went from very comfortable upper middle class to lower middle class within years.

Or maybe economics play a big part in it, also?

I met Dani by chance alone. Twice within a week. In DC. She happened to sit in my section both times. I didn't know her from anyone or anywhere else.

What brought me to DC, to take a second job, at that particular time and restaurant, is in a serious of events throughout my lifetime that could not be the same if my Father was alive.

And if he had walked out then a 3rd path would have been created. No better or worse. Just not mine.
last edited: 3/08/07 12:57:37 PM”

“I was curious as to why you had to step in, so I asked. Still didn't get an answer!
last edited: 3/08/07 12:57:43 PM”

“bear, you should write a book about your life, really.”

“Bearmagnet....

I know what you mean about your dad. On one level I can look back at a bad 20-year marriage as a huge mistake...but would I want to go back and do it differently, given the chance? I don't know...it is impossible to contemplate, because too many good things have happened, too, like the children I have from that marriage, and I don't think I could give those up.”

“Ewk, SS, XL....drop it, please. Thanks.”

“As to my "2 main parties" part - Like I said, you can't possibly know how your decision will affect them. therefore "staying together for the children" or "divorcing for the children" is meaningless.

And maybe, just maybe, what is healthiest for the parents might be what's actually best for the children?”

“Fritz, go #@#%^$^&$&$&$&. ;-)
[Kidding! Kidding!]


Dropped”

“The only purpose in looking back is to learn from your history in order to work towards a better future. There is absolutely no purpose in regretting your history.”

“Now, some regret may keep you from making the same mistakes twice, HPM. ;-)”

“Hasn't happened yet.”

“Fritz, drop what? I said what I saw from reading the thread.”

“"it"”

“Gotta agree with bear on this. I have a couple of friends who are both Psychologists after 15 years of marriage, and 3 beautiful kids...they figured out it really wasn't working.

Their divorce was extremely amicable. In actuality I think they are better friends than they ever were married. Part of it was that every person gives up something when they enter a relationship. You may also get something from the relationship but the most important thing is that you can accept the exchange. My father and mother have always been married, we were lucky he was gone alot. I ahve seen relationships where the couple stayed married and the kids finally told them "WHEN ARE YOU GUYS DIVORCING?"”

“"it"”
Nimblefoot
2:14:52 PM
3/08/07


Ebay?”

“?”

“"staying together for the children" or "divorcing for the children" is meaningless.

bearmagnet

Bear, I love you man, I really do. I like your posts and your approach, but that was the most ignorant statement I have ever read in my life. I know many divorced families, many troubled families and many happy families and every nuance in between. The traditional family unit by far has the most stable, well adjusted kids I know. Followed closely by the families where maybe the mom and dad aren't exactly in love and divorced families that work together even in divorce. then there is a great gap to the kids of screaming parents and parents that don't get along in divorce. So yes whats best for teh kids make a great difference and an inteeligent guess on how things will be for them after a divorce can be made.”

“

Jane, you ignorant slut.....


hyway's post brings this to mind. ;-)
I don't think either of them is old enough to get the old SNL joke.”

“I get the joke, SS. Does that make me old?

I'm fine with your opinion, hyway. I still stand by mine - what's healthiest for the parents is healthiest for the kids.

I am talking healthy divorce. A Vindictive parent in a divorce is hardly healthy. I can't believe staying together when you don't like each other as oppossed to a healthy split is best for any kid.

If anything, it's a horrible lesson to teach.

This is how people settle for everything. My marriage sucks but I do it for the kids. my job sucks but I do it for the family. Dying before your time, miserable except you think the kids might be better off.

You've taught them their happiness is secondary. I disagree.”

“No, I'm feeling old. I watched that live.”

“bear, I don't think my wife can handle being a single parent. She has trouble keeping up with them as it is. And many of the things they enjoy doing now they won't get to do when we are paying for two households.

Stove, I watched those shows live drunk off my ass every saturday night when I was 17 (or 16, or 18, something like that, its all a bit fuzzy to me now)”

“Fair enough hyway. As I said starting out - I was thinking aloud and did note I was coming at it from a complete lack of personal experience.

And y'all are way older than me.

:D :p”

“Just Hyway:)”

“Tell us all about the Crimean War, Hwy....

What was Florence Nightingale really like?”

“Ewker... I got the "it" reference. :-) Where DO these people hang out??? lol”

“Hyway isn't here, but he'd likely say "been there, done that."”

“yep ---


obvious answer , L.

They hang out... at The Hangout.”

“Well, I can tell you one thing, Florence never blew her dog, nor chunks either.”

“That's nice to know ----”

“Boy this convo sure weirded me out some.

I was going to say that there are perfectly good reasons that I stay married, you will either understand them completely or not at all. So I won't defend myself for them.

A. My husband and I both believe in the Sanctity of Marriage. We both take very seriously our vows. We talked about this before we got married; we actually believe in "for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do you part".

B. My husband although he is seriously depressed and an alchoholic does love me deeply to the best of his ability.

C. I still love him. He drives me absolutely crazy, he worries me to death, but I still love him. You see, I do remember the man he was when I first met him.

And I want you to know that I would be fine financially if we were to part, that is not even part of the equasion. My kids would be ticked off at me, but at least 3 of them would understand to some degree and the youngest would understand eventually. My youngest son would suffer the most. I don't think divorce would benefit him in any way shape or form. Sometimes it's not all about me. No matter how much I'd like it to be. And I don't think kids recover from this, adjustment does not necessarily mean recovery. I volunteer with kids all the time. Trust me, they are angry, they hurt, and they still wish their parents were together no matter how bad it was. This might seem crazy to you, but my Dad was an adult when his parents divorced, and it still upset him. Recovery is something that comes much much much later.



But I started this thread to have a safe place to be cranky and blow off steam. It doesn't always mean we want to leave our spouses, sometimes we just wanna bi** and moan and gripe and find a sympathetic ear.”

“and sometimes we are cruising for hot married women cruising for fat, stupid, slovenly men.”

“LOL at hyway!”

“The most interesting thing I've noticed in reading all these posts, is that whatever an individual's personal experience has been seems to influence the advice they will give. Those who have overcome rough spots in a marriage will encourage others to stick it out, for whatever reasons; the kids, the vows, etc. Those who have chosen to divorce seem to advise others to end the misery. I see it at work, and it seems to hold true here as well. I think in part that is an effort to justify one's personal choices. No criticism here, merely an observation.

As Dr. Laura says, there are three no regret reasons for divorce. Addiction(drugs or alchohol), Abuse, Adultery.

Good luck to you all, no matter what your situation, and no matter what course you choose. My youngest daughter is 18, almost out of high school, and almost out of the house. It will be interesting to see how the dynamic in this house changes once that happens.
last edited: 3/09/07 6:36:16 AM”

“hobbit, I know what you are saying, but isn't "in your opinion based on your experiences", silent, but understood, part of asking someone for their advice? What you describe goes for most everything, tents, sleeping bags, cars, etc. Unless someone has a really bad experience they will more often than not give what they own goodmarks to make themselves feel better :). Not me, all my gear sucks.

That 18, almost out of high school, is a bit of a mantra with me :), only I have a 7 you downs syndrome son who will in all practical purposes never be "18, and almost out of high school" as that relates to being a mature adult.”

“I tried to edit that post to head off you perverts who are going to read something else into that "18, almost out of high school, is a bit of a mantra with me" part, but I waited to late so now it looks like I am the pervert. :(

also, you=yo=years old”