Hell is green and is somewhere South of Marks Knob

“Hemlock, Mocs123, quietone --> You guys are serious?..

I'm all for it -- but I'm currently thinking that the proposed fall trip will only be the exploratory for the spring trip.. meaning this fall we should take Brian's proposal -- and save the trip as posted for the spring..

Meet Friday night at CS44.

Use Saturday to find our way down to Three Forks, which is a nice grassy spot on the side of a great swimming hole. Try to recreate the picture in Kenneth Wise's book, and overnight there, exploring the area as much as we can.

(Consider bringing some survey tape. No telling what's up there.)

Come back out to our cars on Sunday.

(Original discussion thread) http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/47574,,2.php

(but let that one die, please)
last edited: 3/31/07 10:46:11 PM”

“That's ok by me just wanted to show interest and I have a small amount of time reserved for either a fall trip or better yet a mild winter excursion.”

“So long as somebody has a map/compass and gps and knows how to use them. I would be willing to give it a try. I have always heard that bushwhacking in the park is hard though.”

“Actually Hell is in Germany, close to the now defunct Berlin Wall.....I know, I got the pics to prove it...... :p”

““So long as somebody has a map/compass and gps and knows how to use them. I would be willing to give it a try. I have always heard that bushwhacking in the park is hard though.”

On a trip like this, map, compass and the KSE to use them are essential. Just assume that a GPS will not work in the deep woods. Off trail in the park may be hard, maybe less so. You just don't know. Big Cataloochee is fairly open with all the hardwoods, Guyot tougher with all the blowdowns and briars, other places very difficult.

Hell can be many places, the Peak, Roses Ridge, Clinch/Garden Mt from the west, east side of Plott Balsam, east side of Snake Mt, etc. I've heard ex-wives house, inlaws, work place, NYC, etc.”

“Also excellent physical conditioning a must. This route is not one you want resulting in a rescue. Expect to be walking 10-12 hours with minimal breaks, possibly into a second day.”

“LOLz.. you are a mess edoc. Like I said -- I got a reference book coming in the mail.. but my guess right now is that we won't attempt the complete trip.. we will just do some exploring to get a feel for the trip to come later.”

“You should have been with me Sunday night. 8 mile RT/2000 gain climb of Sandymush Bald (on trails) Started 7 pm, summited at 9 pm, car by 10:45. Rained on top, dark; walked almost nonstop. Foolish, probably.

Kingsport by 1 am. Met with Accountant 8 am this morning.

Up Elk Knob (NC) today, 800 gain in 22'. Heart a thumpin. Back to Timberlake.

When you (we?) do this hike fuel up with high octane. Also make sure the turbo is functional.

p”

“BTW this trip is in NC”

“Chris, you can always call me at my home phone number – xxx-xxx-xxxx. I live in the Mountain Time Zone. I am in and out and if out, just leave a message.

I would say this, however. The drawing that you sent (1931 GSMNP) is not the route of the old trail that was abandoned in the late 1970's. (Too many horses were on it and it was not up to that kind of pounding.) I am attaching a clip of a map (1974 GSMNP) from the old Smokies Sierra Club Tote book hiking guide (Hikers Guide to the Smokies, published in 1974). You can see that the route follows Hyatt Ridge, through Roses Gap, not the path that you have drawn down Breakneck Ridge and then up to Mt Hardison.

There is a description of the route in the Hiker's Guide (long since out of print) which I would be happy to scan and email to you. (ed note: Your Amazon US order, number 0xx-xxxxxx-xxxxxxx, has been processed and shipped via standard mail within two business days of 3/29/2007.)

The last time I was on Hyatt Ridge was in June of 1986. At the time, the trail head only been abandoned about 6 or 7 years. But even then, it was brutal. What had happened was that much of the tree canopy had died, with the Balsam Wolley Adelgid mess. So that let sun into the forest floor. And wow, the blackberries had gone wild. The only way George Ritter and I could stay on the "trail" was to feel it with our feet, because we surely could not see our boots. If the feeling was soft underfoot, we were off the trail. If it was packed harder, then we were on the old trail. Our plan had been to make it up to Laurel Gap that evening. Boy, was that a joke. We could see than our progress was glacial, so we picked up some water at about the only spot you can get water on Hyatt Ridge, and carried it until we could not carry any more. We found a couple of tiny spots in the deadfall, just big enough for each of our two small tents, and called it a day.

Of course, this is not to say that you would not have an "interesting" trip up from Big Pool (Three Forks, at the base of Breakneck Ridge).

Once, Ray Payne, John Finger and I had a really interesting trip: we did LOWER Raven Fork (the part that is downstream of the trail crossing) Took us 7.5 hours to go 2.5 miles, with day packs.

Anyway, feel free to call, but remember, it has been some time since I did that route. Like I said, it was 1986.
last edited: 4/03/07 3:45:24 PM”

“That sounds like an awfully big bite.
You sure you can chew that?
lol”

“HPM -- Right now I'm thinking that we don't even attempt the route, and settle for some exploring (of the Three Forks area) to better understand the feasibility of even attempting it.

The more I study this thing though, the more it intrigues me. I'm /almost/ tempted.”

“

The following streams and their tributaries upstream from the points described are closed to fishing, in order that native brook trout can be protected.

...

Raven Fork at Big Pool which is the confluence of Left Fork, Middle Fork and Right Fork (also known as Three Forks).
last edited: 4/03/07 4:10:56 PM”

“Fooey.
Just walk downstream a bit from the pool.”

“Yeah -- I'm kinda thinking the same thing.. this would make a really sweet combination fishing, eating and exploratory reconnaissance mission.”

“I planned to go to three forks when i could, and if i can go along with this trip it would be great. i was wondering about going back downstream from there so maybe there would be a chance to recon that, a little. October is awesome there.”

“I hope you will think about going then. It's a low mileage hike (obviously) -- but a good chance to explore and determine the difficulty of some future hikes.”

“Hell, my feet are somewhere south of Mark's Knob.

I will keep an eye on this trip, maybe I can talk Jackstraw into car-pooling on down.”

“TD sorry but I won't be able to go on the 'Great Adventure'. I had an offer I couldn't refuse come up. It was a tough choice between Hyatt Ridge and visiting some of the National Parks in Utah. But a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Let me know if the date changes. Good luck all!

hemlock”

“I saw where some of you are going to be unable to go.. and I also saw where none of you so far thinks you have the extra day to spare that i mentioned about a week ago.

Just so I know.. who /IS/ coming.. so I can plan accordingly?”

“company picnic just got announce for that same weekend. I have to make an showing.
I want to go though...i could only have done real late friday-sunday around noon though.”

“Hey, if anyone has the email doc (the long version) bounce it back to me. I accidentally deleted it I think.”

“More than three people on a bushwack would be folly, imo.”

“Bushwhack speed limited by the slowest person.”

“I don't know of anyone signed up who is actually going so far. Mike called me and him and I are going to go, but I don't have any confirmation of anyone else so far.”

“as a bit of encouragement, a have a friend that last fall, and in the past, clipped the old hyatt ridge trail, but i think he only got as far as roses gap. its from there to marks knob you'll have trouble...from marks knob to balsam mtn trail is easy, more of a trail than even a manway.”

“"(Consider bringing some survey tape. No telling what's up there.)"

Please consider taking it down when you're done too....”

“The only fourth person I'd accept would be Radagast. Or Jerbear...

Jer for his sense of place, and Rad for his thicket-be-damned determination :)”

“Towndawg- I will be unable to make it as I have to work that Friday. Please post a TR and pics for those of us who can't make it. Maybe we can do a trip somewhere in the spring.”

“pjbarr -- we're blazing a new trail basically. After studying all the information available, including the 1931 route and the 1974 route, we'd come to the conclusion there is really only one feasible way to get to TriCorner from Three Forks, and it's not the 1931 nor the 1974 routes.

Basically we are going to trace the left fork until we are at about 5500' right below Tricorner Knob, where it forks into several tiny branches. The hardest part of the trip is picking the branch of the creek that leads to Tricorner. If we can pick the right one, which goes steeply up to the left, we will come out right at the shelter.

Unfortunately, the bushwhack gets harder as we climb because the stream narrows and downed trees lie across the whole creek.

My plan is to make an attempt. I don't know that we can do it. If there is copious rain prior to this trip, it would be impossible to attempt what we are considering. We are going to hit it early Friday morning, and see where we are that night. If we are a half mile north of Three Forks by nightfall, you can guarantee that all we will do Saturday is tuck our tail and come back down.

The main thing is that if we decide it can't be done, we will know long before we have put in many miles. If there is anyone who can get off that Friday, and meet up with us Thursday night let me know as soon as possible. So far it is just Fridge and myself.

gojo -- I've hiked with Jerbear and Radagast, and either would be a LOT of help.
last edited: 8/29/07 1:28:21 PM”

“hello again. thinking. trying to decide how little can i afford to go with.

i own four packs i guess.. i think the pack of choice will be the indestructible eureka.. its barely a mid-range, but its survived other bushwhacks. the Ramsey Cascades epic for example.

I'm thinking my hammock. i got two sleeping bags, if i /did/ bring a bag it would be the moonstone (20 deg) bag.

and this is where the list gets weird. or at least the options become great. next on my list is a navigator, and I pick fridge.

I'm hoping for continued dry conditions, but I'm expecting the flood zone in a month. :)

so hey, who knows. I seriously don't think I /can/ make it (in the time allotted) but I need to be back at work on Monday..

good morning by the way.
last edited: 8/30/07 3:36:17 AM”

“Take a day pack, sleep in a blanket. Misery loves company. I thought we were doing this in the fall? Oh well, have fun.”

“"Take a day pack, sleep in a blanket. Misery loves company. I thought we were doing this in the fall? Oh well, have fun."

Spring 08 was the original plan, but I'm going to go ahead and do the recon and see what I can find out.”

“I can't wait to hear how this turns out - it sounds like a total blast of a trip!”

“it /is/ doable. but its dangerous as ... if you get right down to it.

inside my mind a minute.

its 10.4 from tricorner back to our cars. downhill about 2k, reasonable walk thru laurel gap.

up.. well its the initial shock of actually finding three forks.. and sizing it up from there.

I need to find you some stock pics of.. (goes off wandering trying to find a decent pic of what it looks like..)


knowing that I've posted it before.. but the UPLOAD PICs part of this board ISN'T working.. !!

gRrrr.

we return you to your normally scheduled stations.
last edited: 8/31/07 1:16:00 AM”

“the 1931 route isnt there at all, up middle fork ridge. a friend who has done just a few shy of all the '31 trails said its the worst rhodo he's ever been in in his life. the 1970s trail is still there, and at this point in very good shape from balsam mtn trail to marks knob, and from mcgee springs (once you get above the campsite) to almost roses gap.

i had another friend who did your exact hike one time, but spent the night on what he described as one of his favorite places in the smokies...a bluff edge near/above the confluence of left right and middle raven forks, just big enough for one person. the next day he came out right at the spring at tricorner and said he scared the hell out of campers at the shelter, who were certain as he approached through the brush that he was a bear. i know of also someone who did the route in reverse from tricorner to big cove.

i've only looked down into it from the side of chapman and from beyond big pool, but left fork is some of the wildest country not only in the park, but the east.

the picture at three forks from wise's book will be difficult to recreate since its grown up more now, and the cleared areas where they used to camp aren't very obvious.

are you planning on going down breakneck to three forks, or down right fork to it? there used to exist a manway down right fork (an easier alternative for the fishermen), but its grown up a lot now. a friend described finding a fresh footprint with a rock cairn built near the confluence of thicket branch and right fork last fall. what are the odds.
last edited: 9/01/07 2:53:00 PM”

“wow

thank you

i knew most of that, actually

i also realize that even though we've never met, we keep the same circle of friends

and know you knew how i knew it

so.. answering the question [and typing on a broken keyboard at the moment]

breakneck to 3forks then onward

the74version was tempting but the owner of the tricorner story [you know brian of course], he suggested the left fork route as the most feasible, given all we know.

make any sense

i'm sickies too, but we will talk more
last edited: 9/01/07 7:48:49 PM”

“i think brian was the one who went south to big cove? i know he did the ramseys cascade manway with you a few years back. i hiked by on the AT about 2 weeks afterwards and found your cairn where you guys popped out on the trail. it was right about where i left the trail to head up to bag guyot for the first time.”

“On the trip roster, I still see 4 yes, and 7 maybes.. but I have my doubts.

Anyways. What a change in the weather forecasts, eh? I originally thought I'd do this trip with a 25lb max pack weight (inc water) -- but basing that on a hammock and a space blanket.

Will change everything if the high-altitudes continue to get water like this. (The fisherman's "three forks" will look like BIG SOUTH FORK on a kayaking day.)

:)”

“I must bow out from the trip. I have a medical appointment on Friday, with a possible torn rotator cuff. MRI is this coming Monday. Bummer!!”

“Mike and I will be at round bottom.. sometime when we get in Wednesday. If anyone wants to hang out with us, or hike part of it.. give us a shout.

Our plan is to hit the trail at first light Thursday. Will be out sometime Sunday afternoon.
last edited: 9/21/07 8:59:26 PM”

“morning. been a minute, but it was the weekend you kno? heh.

.. but anyway.. hope you had a good weekend. don't know who all is lurking, but ..

birch gap to 44, then breakneck. it will most likely be lunch? -- and then onward. Geez. When back over the weekend, and scanned all the historical pics thru Google. There's two pics at big pool where going upward and onward looks ridiculous. Hope thats not my first "main path".

Gear?.. I'm still thinking hammock, poles and a space blanket.”

“http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1162468376056956192mPXntJ?vhost=outdoors

”

“if i was there.

str8 ahead, but around the tree (path in foreground).

stream is up to the right, but the peak of the first ridge is to my left.

from what I can tell from the map.. it looks almost like a slot canyon in the higher elevations... with a good stiff climb as the day wears on.



well off 2 work. by the way, that drop into big pool from breakneck is about a 1K in less than a mile.
last edited: 9/24/07 3:45:00 AM”

“y'all are all a bunch of lurkers.

anyways,, good morning.

(yawns) it's too early. headed 2 work.

anything new with yas? mine is same old same old.. but I do have a vacation coming up. Headed to the mountains.

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~dunigan/gsmnp/m.php?wpt=BC030

holla back.”

“http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n51/hikertndude/3frks.gif



this one is the wrong three forks.
last edited: 9/25/07 3:11:53 AM”

“You guys have a fun and safe trip. Be sure to post a TR and Pics.”

“oh first thought off the top of my head is "wtf, what are you doing anywhere near Marko's knob!?!!"”

“LOLz.

good morning everyone. today's the day.”

“Hope you have a good time. Going to Tusquitee Bald Tuesday then some on/off trail in the SNW Wed-Thurs.”