Kids or no kids???

“Ok, looking for others input here... why I do not know because from reading threads, this could become and interesting discussion. I have done some thinking lately about whether or not I want children some day. I am not that old, late 20's. But with all that is going on in the world, violence, global warming, etc., I see the world as a place I don't want my children to have to be. I have always been one to want kids, I love them, even work with them. I work in health care and see people die all the time without children at the bedside - - I always said I never wanted to be that person dying alone. But is that selfish of me just to bring them into a world that is going to be in a crazier state when they get old?”

“You should have them. The world has always been this way. You will find that the world will never be peaceful enough to justify having kids. And it is possible to have more influence on your child than the world has. And besides, it's children being born to good people like you that can change the world rather than the world changing them.”

“I guess it just seems so much worse from when I was younger or when my parents were younger... or maybe I am just trying to justify not having them. Or maybe I just don't know what I want right now!!! I think that is probably more of the correct answer :)”

“We all look back with nostalgia at the way things were when we were younger. Everything seemed simpler. But as a child I just did not fully understand civil rights or Vietnam. Nigal is correct. Your child could grow up to make a differnce. My son is the greatest accomplishment of my life.”

“Your question seems to revolve around the issue of selfishness. "Is it selfish to....." Without getting into a deep debate of moral issues (at least I hope to avoid that..) If it were not for the advances in contraception the issue of selfishness would never arise. So (from my faith position) assuming you are married stop using contraceptive measures, (assuming that you are using something) and let the chips fall where they may if the issue of selfishness is paramount. Then the question of selfishness does not enter the picture.”

“It's good you are concerned about such things. Conscientiousness is a indicator of positive character but your concerns are misdirected.

The same stuff is happening now as was in the "good old days" the difference now is an increased access to information and increased documentation of what is happening.

There isn't more going on. We are just more aware of what has always been going on.

Even if it were, the issue is not the outside external world, the real issue is how you interact with it. We can not control anything except ourselves but as intelligent reasoning creatures we can mitigate risks and do what we can to ensure our own positivity (you can choose what positivity means in your life).

If you aren't convinced, then adopt a child (who already has no choice but to face the world you are concerned about) and help better that child's situation.

Oh yeah, KIDS!
last edited: 4/07/07 8:25:38 AM”

“I've got a lot of respect for people who make a very concious decision on whether to have or not to have kids. It's not for everyone. There are lifestyle issues, money issues and tons more issues. It may sound selfish, but my friend said it best.

He said that once married, there was pressure from both families with the whole "When are we getting grandchildren" thing. he didn't need the pressure and didn't want his family dictating his life decisions, after all, that's why he moved out and got married and all. He said he and his wife have been called "selfish". If that means answering to nobody's schedule but thier own, traveling where they want, when they want and having the financial resources to plan great trips and enjoy thier lives, then selfish it is. I see his point. I sure as hell wouldn't do it again, and I've been lucky to raise great kids, no trouble (exept attitudes)

Only you should make these decisions”

“TROLL!”

“Gotta agree with Nigal. The world isn't getting worse. People are just expecting more. "Selfish" would be not giving life just because you assume they would not be happy. If you are going to teach your kids to despise the world, perhaps it is best to not have them. If you teach them to love the world it will be easier to teach them to help change it for the better. Unselfishness means caring more about your kids welfare than your own. Only you know if you can/will do that.

I dont have kids but wouod like to, but have to find a wife first. Probably won't happen sine I'm alwas on the go.

Life is always difficult, but in that struggle is opportunity to appreciate the good and to love others as we band together. If life was all marshmallows and easy as pie, we'd have no ability to appreciate it.

Interesting discussion. I hope others chime in.”

“My wife and I had lots of discussions about having our third. I was totally happy with 2 and she'd always wanted 3. It was one of those things we both felt strongly about yet couldn't put into words. Finally, I decided her need for 3 was stronger than my desire to stay with 2. We had baby Addie in Sept. My wife was right.

I agree with the others that we're just more aware of the bad things out there, but I would also contend that it is different. I think drugs are more common than when I was in school. Oral sex isn't sex anymore thanks to Clinton. If you won't teach your morals to your kids then someone else will.

There are lots of reason to have or not to have kids. I don't think the one listed above is really one of them.”

“There are a lot of kids already here that would love to have a good home and parents. Have you thought about adopting?”

“We have two children. My son is seven and my daughter is two. They both amaze me every day. I don't feel like a super parent at all, but my children are such wonderful people. Caring, concerned, loving and with minds that analyze and look for solutions.

The potential they have is truly limitless. Maybe one of them will be the one who discovers the cure for cancer. Maybe my daughter will be the first woman President of the USA. Maybe they'll get married and have children of their own some day who are even better than my two are?

I also understand my relationship with God so much better now because of my children. It is amazing what feeling unconditional love truly is.

As others have said, every generation has thought theirs was the worst. Every generation has pondered this question. If you worry about money, my Bishop at church once told me "No one can ever afford kids." You are comfortable and have your lifestyle already set. You'll adapt. We humans are pretty darn good at that.

Finally, and this is weird to think about, but if on my deathbed my children are not there, I am secure in the knowledge that somewhere out there are two pieces of "me" that I have invested countless hours and dollars in to be the best people they can be, and honestly, I feel like that makes the world a better place than when I entered it.”

“Two of mine are out of the house and more or less on their own. The third is still at home but leaving in a cou0le of years... My experience?

There were days when I wouldn't have sold them for any amount of money. There were days when I would not have given them away because it would too cruel to the person who got them.

Would I do it again? At my age I would not start all over again but of course at flamingo's age that isn't likely to happen anyway. Would I raise grandchildren if I felt I had to? Yeah. But all in all, my kids are great.

If you really want an eye opener on the "good old days" do two things. First read the Old Testament. The stuff that went on will make your eyes cross. Second, spend an afternoon in a good sized library and read the newspapers from the times you think were so good. Particularly spend some time in the 1960's and early 1970's. Again, it will cross your eyes.

But to be honest... if your biggest concern is having someone at your bed side when you die..... there's no assurance they will be there. Buy a young parrot, it is likely to outlive you. If your biggest motivation is that you love kids, then "don't fret the small stuff." and the corollary is... "It's all small stuff."”

“I think it was Charles Lindberg who said that the best thing one can leave in this world is one's children.

Having kids opens you up to the possibility of unimaginable heartbreak but my wife and I took that chance and thus far we have had good luck.

The present time is no better or worse than when I grew up, having been born in 1952.
The '60s was a truly horrible decade for a lot of people.
Here in the U.S. we lived through political violence with the murders of the Kennedys and MLK and Malcolm X who were seen as a threat to the status quo, I suppose.

One of my dearest friends told me of how his father and a group of neighbors pooled their resources to buy a house to prevent it being sold to a black family back in the early '60s.

Good old days, huh?

In the '30s, as a teenager, my father was one of the first catholics to work for a D.C. area drug store chain.
Washington D.C. had "whites only" facilities in the '50s. That sort of thing was not limited to the deep south.

My second son turned 21 two days ago. All three of them are fine young men and my life has been all about them for the last 25 years. We are lucky to have them and they have been lucky to have us.

Good luck to you, Honey.
last edited: 4/07/07 11:29:30 AM”

“5 kids. I have to say they have been the source of more pride and joy then anthing else in my life. They have also brought me more suffering and grief as well. Nothing ever really mattered untill I held first.”

“One never really knows when that "perfect" mate will materialize.

In September 1980 I was finishing up a 90 day road trip and completely unattached.
By September 1982 we were conceiving our first son and that has been my life ever since.

I sometimes recall that easy lonesome life with fondness.”

“Having a child is like someone ripping your heart out of your chest and it forever walking around outside of your body. Nothing has brought me more pain or more joy than my own children, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. In fact although Steve and I made the choice for tubal ligation almost 10 years ago, we have often spoken of adoption when we see older children who need someone. Unfortunately we don't have the space or money and I am working fulltime now.

I think that those of us who CAN raise our children WELL owe it to the world to do so. The world needs that. Our children are the future's promise. And this is what my mom held on to when I was going down the wrong path as an adolescent. Proverbs 22:6 Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is OLD he will not turn from it.

All that being said, to have children or not is a very personal and life changing choice that only you can make. However I am wondering, did you want us to give you good reasons to have them anyway? The world will always be an ugly place. Have children anyway.”

“From the very beginning kids "train" parents, if parents are perceptive enough.

One thing that a lot of parents don't seem to understand is that kids don't respond well to is the IRON FIST. Kids are born with their personality and "molding" them just doesn't work.
That sort of thing can and will teach kids that honesty is not safe.
We believed that it is most important that the kids grow up knowing they can trust us no matter what. That has worked well for our family and our boys have good friends who are not "go-to-hell" kids.”

“My kids have been my driving force in my darkest hours.”

“I don't have any kids and don't want any. My wife had 2 from a previous marriage and I am glad they are not mine. Both very selfish. I have known too many parents who have had their hearts broken by the acts of their children including my sister and my wife. I like the fact that my wife and I can go where ever we want, when ever we want and not have to worry able little or teenage ones.”

“I got out of college and was more interested in traveling, accopmlishing some personal goals, and doing a few other things that marraige and family would just not allow. As I got older I saw friends getting married and having kids, and that was just not what I wanted.

Only regret I have is how single persons are looked at as irrelevant by society; even someone who has had multiple marriages & divorces in more "acceptable" to society than a lifetime single person. Don't know if its from marketing & advertising constantly slamming that image of the perfect "family" in front of your face, or if married persons are jealous of what I've been able to do in life.”

“phydeux, I have a friend, older guy, who was never married. He has more insight into ralationships and life than anyone I know, and I respect and love him dearly. Don't regret what others might want for you. They just choose for themselves. You live your own life and make no excuses for it. You are living the life you chose. You are stronger for it, brother. No vindication needed............”

“i love my dogs and my horses. my cats are great too.”

“Selfishness?! Ha, ha, ha, ha! The funny part there is that if you have children for selfish reasons, you will be justly punished because having children means living a selfless life, one of devotion and responsibility to someone other than yourself. So, if you're doing this for a selfish reason, DON'T do it! Besides, you never know what the future holds. You may die lonely anyway because you may outlive your child or your child turns to a life of ill fate, yadda, yadda, yadda.

If you're unsure, wait. You'll know when you're ready. In the mean time, if you get that mothering instinct, you can borrow mine. I desperately need a night out!

:) Hope that helps.

Sunny
Mom Extraordinare”

“Thanks for the advice all. I wanted to just throw it out there and see what others thought. I am not at the point where I need to make a decision now, just deciding what I want out of life, I suppose. I am not looking at this from a financial standpoint. If people waited until they could afford it, they would never have children. And they dying alone in a hospital is just something more of knowing there isn't anyone out there. Not that they aren't at my bedside, but the look on some peoples faces when they tell you they have no one - it kills you. Even if I knew my kids were out there - somewhere - paris, hawaii, whatever. And that isn't the sole reason. I know that in a lot of ways violence has not changed much, but there is the drugs, sex, disease issues... and global warming can't be avoided. Adoption is also a choice I have thought about, but not really needed to consider heavily. Also I was wondering if anyone has experience with step-children and how they get along with the step-parents??? Again, thanks for all the advice, and good discussion!!!”

“My first child has a different biological father, and my husband raised him as his own and he loves him just the same. It may be that he has had Chris since Chris was an infant, or it may be that he has a huge heart, or it may be that I gave him permission to love and discipline him just the same as the other children; or it may be a combination of all factors. I have a friend who had exactly the same situation as far as age of child and it did not work out the same way at all. She never gave him the chance to discipline him.”

“I'll say this:
No matter what I have gone thru, I am glad every day I had my son. Even when he tests me and I want to throttle him, then I will look over and he is doing something that reminds me why I love him. My son has Auespergers Syndrome, so my days are often quite testing of patience...but on the other hand, he is my buddy and that is something I know won't change. He knows I love him no matter what.

My husband became a step dad at 29. He had no experience with kids before. Most assume that he is my son's dad-because they act like son and dad :-) He has been a better dad than his real dad. He didn't try to be super dad or bribery dad to get my son to like him. Rather he let him get used to him, and made respect a two way street. I knew my husband was the one, when after a bad experience with my son, I wondered if I'd hear tires squealing and a "So long suckers!" being yelled out of the window. But no, he stuck around and I knew then that he loved us both. And that is something to know: if you cannot love another's children, then don't mess up their lives. Move on. There is nothing worse than marrying or living with another who has kids, and you cannot stand having them around. The kids know it.

Are kids worth it? Yes. But it isn't easy by any means. You do give up a lot-but you also gain so much.”

“I have dated men with kids, and my problem is getting way too attached to the child - but I always wondered how they might treat me as I they get older, how that relationship would be. I am sure it depends on the specific situation, but when you are in it, you wonder! I suppose it could be the same with your own children, they rebell too...”

“oh heck yeah! they rebel. in big way or little ways. you pick your battles. you roll with the punches. and it's different with each and every kid. that's when you hang on to the verse i gave you above.

Proverbs 22:6 Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is OLD he will not turn from it.

and that kid of his won't treat you any different depending on your age, the kid may however treat you differently depending on the station you achieve in their father's life. for instance, if you got married to him, you suddenly threaten their mother, and the relationship between you two, might sour. it may not make sense to your or i. but it makes sense to them.”

“The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

http://www.vhemt.org/
last edited: 4/08/07 6:26:24 AM”

“I prefer to encourage others to support......


http://www.darwinawards.com/



:}”

“I am not that old, late 20's. But with all that is going on in the world, violence, global warming, etc., I see the world as a place I don't want my children to have to be.

Violence and climate change aren't new things... they have been a source of hardship for generations. People have been having and raising children under conditions of hardship FAR more difficult than anything we face today. Frankly, with the level of convenience available today and the state of modern medicine I think conditions have never been better to have kids. Odds are if they are raised properly and make good decisions they will lead a long, healthy, and productive life.

These aren't reasons to not have kids. These are reasons to make sure you invest the time in your kids so they are well cared for and turn out to be good people. In the end this is a personal decision and you won't be able to blame the rest of the world for the choice you may perceive you are forced to make.

In fact, to a certain extent, choosing to NOT have kids is sort of like dumping the investment in solving these problems for future generations on the rest of us that do choose to have kids.”

“someone told me once "if I knew how much I would love my kids I would've never had them"

Makes you think.

My son just the other day told me he'll never have kids, too much trouble, cost too much and he's just to damn selfish for that.

I keep my fingers crossed that he'll think like that until he's about 30. LOL

I think I love my kids, but the thought what could happend to them, and what the world is coming to...well it scares the crap out of me.”

“"I think I love my kids, but the thought what could happend to them, and what the world is coming to...well it scares the crap out of me."

You bet your ass!
Like I said earlier, by having kids we are setting ourselves up for the possibility of the worst kind of heartbreak.

I was almost 31 when Danny was born.

I had my fun......”

“Your main reason for being here is to reproduce. But besides that, are you sure you can have kids?”

“I didn't want any kids but my wife had other plans. She wanted a kid before she turned 30 & had one. (I got clipped after that) My daughter was a jewel until she became a teenager & left the human race. In her early 20's she returned, got her masters, got a husband I like, teaches school & has 2 great kids.

Grandkids are your reward for not killing your children.

Now they live about 2 miles away, also in the Catskill mountain park & building a house a block away.”

“She must like you, Cats.”

“Hey Gem, so how do you feel about your son not wanting children? I think that is also part of this. I almost feel guilty if I don't want children because I know how badly my parents want grandchildren. I am thankful for all the input each of you has given. Why does life have to be so confusing and complicated???”

“NO KIDS!!!! Adopt a child that is already on this overpopulated earth.

That said do what you feel.”

“Why does life have to be so confusing and complicated???

You mean someone promised it wouldn't be? OMGosh, my life has been thus 99% of the time.”

“Pamela, I know life is like that - just more frustrated than usual with it at the moment!!! :)

Funny thing... I don't talk about personal stuff at work to patients or anything, but I walked in a woman's room tonight. I said hello, and the first thing she said was, "Look at those flowers. They are from my grandson. I am so lucky to have good grandchildren - 8 of them. Whoever says they don't want kids are crazy. What are they going to say when their husband dies and are left with no one? I only have one of my 4 kids left. My husband is gone. But my grandkids, they are great."

HA - - I almost hit the floor. She had NO CLUE what I have been thinking. And the only word I ever said to her in my life was "hello" - - but there she went. Crazy”

“hey, did you decide to have kids yet? if so let us know if you need help getting started. there are a number of us that will step up to the plate and help you out with that life goal even if you are in your early 20s and over the hill.”

“Uh huh... I will surely let you know if I need the help, but for the moment... still debating :) Thanks for the wonderful offer tho”

“honeybunches - I always wanted a family, but I said the same basic things as you when I was in my early 20s (during the 70s). I thought the cold war was going to turn into WWIII in 1976 and didn't want any kids around to experience it. I finally decided that my predictions of doom and gloom should not run my life.

So, fast forward and I now have four children ages 29, 27, 25 and 20. The three oldest are out of the house. The 25 year old is getting married next weekend! The youngest has Down Syndrome.

They are all my best friends, as well as being my children. When I think of having a good time, I think of being around my family. My wife and I could not personally imagine growing old without children.

If you decide not to have children, make sure it is what you really want.”

“Phil, congrats on your daughter's wedding! And thanks for the thoughts :)”

“honeybunches, maybe God used this woman to speak to you? He does that sometimes you know. you can especially tell when it comes out of the blue like that.

coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous”

“I don't mind him not wanting any children. Honestly I understand, and actually am glad.
Kids cost money, kids are trouble, and like most I feel this world is pretty #&%!$ed up right now.


That being said, I already have grandkids from my daughters side...
I doubt I would feel any different though if I didn't already have grandkids.

I think you just need to relax. Once you are in a serious relationship [and I mean REALLY serious] you may change your mind.

haven't read throu everything so I don't know...”

“http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070926/NEWS01/70926069

State closes day care center after baby found with pacifier taped to his mouth....

***************************************

Come clean, parents, you've thought about it! ;-)”

“In March 2005, it was investigated by DHS after a child it was caring for died from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS). The department found no wrongdoing or foul play, and no licensing action was taken.

SIDS the ultimate method of covering up foul play.”

“if you can't do the time, don't do the crime(have kids i mean)”