Rudy to farm couple - "not millionaires? - FU!"

“DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Jerry and Deborah VonSprecken pulled out all the stops getting their farm in eastern Iowa ready to host an event with former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

The couple moved cattle from the pasture, cleared brush for a makeshift parking lot, brought in hay bales for seats and had even planned to get portable toilets for an expected crowd of about 75 to 100 people.

The couple now says that their efforts were all for naught -- because they aren't "millionaires."

The VonSpreckens, who were asked by Giuliani's campaign to host an event at their 80-acre farm in Olin on May 4, were told just a few days later that Giuliani, a Republican presidential hopeful, wasn't coming.

Deborah VonSprecken said that Giuliani's campaign bailed after deciding the couple didn't mesh with Giuliani's planned speech about the elimination of the inheritance tax. The so-called "death tax," is a big issue in Iowa, where farmers face hurdles passing their land along to the next generation.

"They checked our assets, and since we're not considered millionaires, they canceled," she said.

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2007/05/13/news/iowa/459e4db6e43a66f9862572d900822b0b.txt”

“Rudy is a class act.”

“Well look who crawled back out from under his rock. After last week's debacle, I figured it would be a little while yet befor violin would show up and pretend like he didn't make complete fool of himself (again).”

““I think you've proved that you're the nastiest person on the internet.

Mission Accomplished.

Can you leave it alone now?

Do me a favor and stop posting anything about me or following up my posts with acerbic remarks. Just completely ignore my presence here. I'll do the same for you.

OK? Think you can do that?”
VioLiN
5:02:23 PM
3/21/07


LMFAO!!”

“DEATH AND TAXES

SYNOPSIS: The repeal of the inheritance tax is a great example of the power of the rich

The distribution of wealth does not look like the "bell curve" beloved of statisticians. Instead it is best described by a "power law," a sort of elongated ski slope. Power-law distributions, unlike bell curves, have a lot of their mass far out in the right tail -- which means, in this particular case, that a large share of the total wealth is held by a small number of families.

To give you an idea of the implications: You may or may not be impressed to hear that 25 percent of U.S. families own more than 80 percent of private assets. But well over half of the wealth of that 25 percent is actually in the hands of the top fifth of that group, that is, the wealthiest 5 percent of families. Roughly the same proportion of that wealth is actually in the hands of the top fifth of that group, the top 1 percent of families. And although our statistical vision starts to blur at high altitudes, it's more or less certain that most of the wealth of the top 1 percent is actually in the hands of the top 0.2 percent, and so on up to Bill Gates.

The hate-mailers and right-wing pundits are already firing up their word processors. Wealth distribution is one of those subjects where even a bland statement of the facts is met with furious attacks on the messenger. If someone says that a small number of people own a lot of assets, and does not assert in the same breath that this is a good thing -- the politically correct statement is not that people "have" wealth but that they "create" it -- he will immediately be denounced as a dangerous leftist.

And the protesters have good reason to be upset: it's important to suppress these facts if at all possible. If middle-class Americans had any realistic sense of how rich the rich really are, policy moves that cater specifically to the wealthy -- like the repeal of the inheritance tax, voted by the House last week -- would face a much rougher ride.

The current inheritance tax applies only to estates of more than $675,000, with the cutoff scheduled to rise to more than $1 million over the next few years; as a result, only about 2 percent of estates pay any tax at all -- a fact that opponents of repeal tried in vain to publicize. But even that 2 percent figure quite literally doesn't tell the half of it. Because of the power law, a good deal more than half the value of that top 2 percent of estates actually lies in the top 0.4 percent. And since only the amount over $675,000 is taxed, and the tax rate rises with the size of the estate, the bulk of each year's inheritance tax is actually paid by only a few thousand multimillion-dollar estates. This really is a tax levied almost entirely on the very, very well off.

So why did most members of the House vote to repeal a tax that yields $30 billion per year, yet doesn't touch the vast majority of their constituents? Perhaps they were moved by sob stories about salt-of-the-earth family farmers and small-business men forced by estate taxes to abandon their heritage -- although a quick check of the facts would have revealed that such stories are actually quite uncommon, and that the compromise bill offered by the Democratic leadership would have made them vanishingly rare.

Or maybe Congress is really, truly worried about incentives -- about the potential entrepreneur who thinks to himself: "Why bother? Even if I make millions, I can only pass 61 percent of it to my kids. So I'll stick with my job as an insurance salesman."

Or, finally, maybe Congress just figured that $30 billion a year isn't a lot of money -- although it is roughly what the federal government spends on the earned-income tax credit, a program that helps millions of poor workers but draws a constant barrage of criticism from economy-minded conservatives. Oh, and it's more than twice our total spending on foreign aid, and around five times as much as the non-military component of that aid.

But if you believe any of these explanations of last week's vote, I've got this bridge you might be interested in buying. The truth is that the vote to repeal the inheritance tax was just an unusually blatant demonstration of a much simpler power law -- the one that says that money talks.

by Paul Krugman
Originally published in The New York Times, 6.14.00”

“Its my understanding that those "few families" pretty much pay almost all of the taxes anyways. That would mean that they are the ones getting screwed unfailrly. Anybody know the % paid by these rich peoplw?”

“I never will understand why middle class people support the abolition of inheritance taxes. Why would they screw their own children over for the benefit of Paris Hilton?

Is kissing up to the Party more important than your own kids? It's insane.”

“I am sorry but Rudi seems alot like John Glenn to me.

John's qualifications for President were...He went around and around the earth...WHOOPTIE DOO.

Rudi...Two buildings went BOOM. While his leadership was incredible..he did his job there but I have yet to see anything that impresses me about him.”

“Freedom from the government is more 9mportant 5hen 'screwing' the rich. You sound like your hatred of rich is more important than being free from tyrannical rule.”

“Yes, Tilt simply can't comprehend why someone wouldn't hate the rich just as much as he does.

He's intellectually hamstrung by White Western Male Guilt.”

“LOL...Mutt it seems to me most of the HATE the RICH are just joining the long line of Victimaholic Mania. They see themselves as failures and the only way they will ever get attention is to be a victim.”

“I ain't hating the rich, its preserving a sense of democracy and being free from the tyrannical influence of the upper class.

Why do some of you guys suck up to the upper class at the expence of your children's future?”

“tyrannical inluence?

So they dont pay there fair share, or they pat WAY more thantheir fair share?

What taxes on the rich wont you support? Where does it end?

Anyways, The rich business owners just pass the taxes on toyou. Dont you beliecve that?”

“"Prserving democracy and being free from the tyrannical influence..." includes Government Sponsored ARMED robbery of Private Property? IN WHAT F&cking Democracy is that approved????

LOL..Oh thats right the libbie leftist version of "democracy" where the brutal RAPE of a woman is considered OKAY if the RIGHT libbie (Slick Willie in this case) is the one doing it.

LOL Hypocrisy is fun when you are a libbie. Marky Mark...maybe if they were coming after you for some of your stuff that you earn....oh wait...sorry ..forgot you are a Kept man....all you got is your digni...no not even that...well I am sure your sugar cookie recipe is to die for...(LOL)”

“Corey's right. The top 20% of earners pay something like 2/3 of all taxes, and pay the highest proportion of their income in taxes.”

“YHBT.

Your kids (and everyone else) will be paying for Republican politicians' greed and their supporters' willful ignorance, on this and many more bastardised "Conservative" issues.

Hey, it's in your own worst interest!   I'll bet you can't wait to buy a car built in China.”

“Tilt...wanna tell me what the LARGEST chunk of your taxes go to? I am sure you know there is no Social Security Lock Box...right? debt we are building is of Entitlements not the fact that you can't steal enough from the hard working successful people.”

“funny.

check this thread out....read the comments of those who are neocons and those that are libbies.

why is it the so-called "conservatives" ignore the thread topic and instead attack the person who posts? (or incoherently wander off into world war 2 and clinton bashing mode?) can any of you make a rational arguement for or against a topic, or is the limbaugh/o'reilly method all you know?”

“Hikerboy, I for one had to poke violin because it was funny. did you miss the thread nonconformist posted about?”

“WOW Mutt...all I heard was that obnoxious buzzing noise I hear when Vile baby gets frustrated.”

“thanks for answering my question, xl”

“Theres that buzzing sound again...LOL Vile must be grumpy again...its okay vile, we know how hard it is for you to accept that we "Untermensch" can whip you in a fair fight.

Call your buds from Gettysburg or Teheran and ask them to calm you down.”

“That's why they're all on ignore.”

“Ignore all opposition. That speaks volumes of Tilt's (lack of) intellectual capacity for political matters. And, it puts into light why Tilt for the life of him can't figure out why anyone would oppose inheritance tax.”

“"Call your buds from Gettysburg or Teheran and ask them to calm you down."
XL

That must be Dittoheadese for something.

Upper class and businesses must pay a hefty but reasonable share, they make their fortunes out of our pockets.
A bit of symbiosis would be nice.”

“Upper class and businesses must pay a hefty but reasonable share, they make their fortunes out of our pockets.
A bit of symbiosis would be nice.”

Marky Mark


LOL...okay marky mark..yes but do you jut GIVE Them money or do you get something in return? (WARNING this is Economics and might be a bit tough for certain people)

See marky mark....you go to say..Walmart, and you get a new apron...you don't want the average APRON, you want a nice apron with a separate compartment for things...so you get the one with the frilly edging.

You go to the checkout and you hand the girl money (the price is figured on the old supply and demand thing) and you get to keep the apron.

The only people who TAKE MONEY without providing any service is the Criminals, who at least have the guts to take it directly from people with money, and then the leeches of society who take other's money but don't have the guts to ask you so they get MOMMY GOVERNMENT to take it from the successful to make life FAIR (use the whiney libbie voice when you read that).

Why is it that someone who as a rule has worked an 80 hour week and lives within his means to make a life should have to pay the people who blew off life early on becuase they could rob others for their lively hood?

What do we call something that takes life from something without providing any positive payback...Oh yeah we call them parasites.”

“I'm confused, maybe one of you lefties can help me out here?

1. If I manage to leave my kids $1.95, I will have already paid taxes on that $$, why should they also pay?

2. I didn't think our tax structure was based upon some socialist thinking of "he who can pay more, must"? Why are you asking other, hard-working people who managed to become successful pay more? They pay their fair-share (and then some!)

3. As a point of clarification for those of you that don't understand economics, businesses "make their fortune" by providing a product or service you want & think is worth your $$, THAT's how they make their fortune!”

“Rudy blew through town not long ago. He didn't meet anyone associated with Right-to-Life, he was too busy drilling for cash at the Pinnacle Club with Monty Osteen and posing with firefighters.”

“"I didn't think our tax structure was based upon some socialist thinking of "he who can pay more, must"?"

Socialist thinking?

LMFAO!

That was concept touted by Teddy Roosevelt back in the day. I highly think he would hardly be considered a Socialist.”

“judith christ ----”

“Q, why don't you try and address the issue instead of sitting on your backside laughing it off (your words, not mine). We already have a graduated tax structure which takes more $ from the more successful... how much more do you want the gov't to take? Why should they pay taxes twice on the same dollar?”

“"Q, why don't you try and address the issue instead of sitting on your backside laughing it off (your words, not mine)."

LMBSO!

How about forming a lucid premise that doesn't use misplaced terms for things you have no idea about first. You falsely credited the Socialists for the concept Teddy promoted. If you got that wrong, how much of your other "points" are wrong, too?

It ain't that hard, wand.”

“Q, I guess I wasn't clear, I'll give you that much. just "assumed" you knew what I meant.

My question is how much MORE can you continue to ask the more wealthy to pay? They already pay a higher %.

When should it stop? And why must they be taxed twice on the same dollar?”

“Oh geez, Danny Dan, braggin' about your 80 weeks again!!

What a punk!”

“Stop spending so much might work, DAH.”

“It's income to the inheritors. Why should they not pay taxes on income?

The cut-off could be raised into the millions and take care of all the small businesses and family farmers they talk about again and again ---- But The Republican Politicians Will Never Be Satisfied With Any Compromise. They Want It All, Because The Paris Hilton Types Are The Ones Pushing For It.

We know why the politicians are doing it. There's a Big Payday waiting for the ones who get inheritance taxes abolished. You can bet your ass on that.

But again.... WHY do people defend running up the National Debt on their grandchildren by tens of billions for the sake of a few thousand trust fund babies? It's insane.”

“You're making too much sense, Tilty!”

“This one isn't interplanetary propulsion engineering. Everyone who thinks it's so unfair can just write Paris a check!!”

“"But again.... WHY do people defend running up the National Debt on their grandchildren by tens of billions..."

Couldn't agree more! Point is, we're runing up a lot of that debt with all the social programs taking care of people who don't think they should be responsible for taking care of themselves! Human Resources is the largest single piece of the Fed Gov't spending pie - 32% of all our Income Tax dollars go to HR.”

“Another interesting fact... all the new dollars being spent by the politicians who are promising everything to everyone so they can get their vote is WAYY more than the defense spending so many are whining about:

Contrary to popular opinion, new defense spending comprises just 21 percent of the $782 billion spending increase. Massive spending increases for farm subsidies, education, health research, unemployment benefits, and dozens of small, lower-priority programs are collectively adding more new spending than defense.”

“tiltypoo and vile boy are so silly”

“Wanderer the politicians use the free money programs to make permenant voters ...hell they get free money and all they gotta do is make sure Sen. Foghorn stays in....”

“"Wanderer the politicians use the free money programs to make permenant voters ..."

Egg-zackle!

Permanent Voters, indeed!

There is an entire class of professionals who work for aerospace and other fields and are well fed by the "defense" industries which are subsidized by the taxpayers.
Even with the cold war "over" we are spending more than ever and those professionals along with zillions of military retirees mostly vote for the Corporatist Party.”

“MarkO, surely you're not suggesting that we not pay all the veterans their retirement / healthcare benefits as promised, are you?

My point was that all the spending I referred to is done to create a permanent dependent class of people... dependent upon Mommy Government and the jerkwad politicians who promote their BS subsidy programs.”

“AND A WHOLE LOT more who are stuck in the Government Sponsored Slavery system we call Welfare. Marky Mark...I know the challenge of understanding what it must be like to know that you cannot get out...or maybe you do..of your situation and become a productive citizen may escape you...

But in 1992 a study was performed and found a single mother in public housing with two children, on the full government ride, would have to make $10.00 per hour to break even.

LOL of course you may be like the Blueblood republicrats who want them on that so they can "control them".But I am not into running anyone else's life but mine.
last edited: 5/14/07 3:52:48 PM”

“How anyone can support double taxing someone is beyond belief. Ya know, there are a lot of non-rich, hardworking people who leave their legacy to their kids too. This tax screws everyone.”

“Wonder what these private equity guys buying 80% of ,'Cryingseller' will want in the form of welfare? Daimler sucked the blood out of the local people, but this US group will have more friends in high places.”

“My non-rich mother-in-law died 18 years ago and the money left to her kids was not taxed though it was a considerable sum.

Danny Dan, I have been a productive citizen all my life.

How long have you been stark-raving out of your mind?
Did you crack up since joining Trail Talk or have you always been like this?

No, Wanderer. I am not suggesting that.
Years of over-spending on military matters has given us a large dependent group of retirees and the bill for all that they are entitled to is staggering.
I am not suggesting that they be cheated out of what they were promised, but I am pointing out that there is a large and ever-increasing drain on the public treasury.
Trying to "run the world" is a very expensive proposition while our own society it lacking in many ways.”