IS there a fireman in the house?

“Supposedly, the Columbia county's fire is (depending on who you listen to) about 50%-80% 'contained.'

What does containment mean to firemen, and is it meaningful to talk about '50% containment'? I suspect this is a journalistic liberty.

We're in for more dry weather and lower humidity compared to that which we've had over the last day or two (punctuated by 2-inch hail and more lightening). The ground is still very dry, over-all. There's been a small amount of worry that the fire might make it west of U.S. 441. How's that for 'containment'?”

“no, but can i have one?”

“LOL...Pam your question is too easy a question to answer.

Precision, containment, as I understand it refers to the spread of the fire. Whereas structural firefighting involes PUTTING the fire out. Containment means controlling the spread.

If you look at a woods/forest fire it often spreads like a HAND, the base being the area of origin.

The problem with a woods fire is it tends to spread quickly. Containment means that they have "X"% controlled its spread. Often you may think you got the sucker contained and something will happen. New lightning strike, or it jumps in an area you didn't consider.

The problem is a lack of the primary tool for extinguishment. Since the basic law of firefighting is "Put the wet stuff on the red stuff to make black stuff". The lack of WET stuff tends to mean you have to perform back fires, control difficult terrain and watch out for flying embers. As long as you keep the fire confined to the duff on the forest floor it is easily controlable...once it jumps to the tree tops...its off.”

“XL - Why do firemen sometimes go around and knock out all the windows in a burning house? Won't that fuel the flames?

PS - firepolice suck. These guys are mommy-boy pricks with gray hair. They have too much authority with no training. There is little to no recourse available against these pricks when they infringe upon your consitutional rights. My 2 cents for the day.”

“There's gotta be a story there. Out with it, Sarge.”

“I'll just summarize by saying they think they have jurisdiction over anything in their sight.”

“fight the power, sarge”

“no firemen available at the moment, they are all surfing the net”

“Don't be embarrassed, Sarge. We've all been hassled by cops at some point. Spill the beans.”

“troll-fight!”

““fight the power, sarge”

Of firepolice? LOL! I'll take 'em all on at once. They should just stay put at the VFW when the alarm rings.”

“Wow..okay

Ventilation

There are three types of ventilation

Horizontal, Vertical and Forced.

The biggest thing is that heat is trapped in the building and will intensify (kinda like trapped in an oven) to the point where the amount of heat is critical.

As you know the things needed for a fire are heat (reducing agent), fuel and oxygen. In the slowest form you have RUST. In the fastest form of Oxidation you have an explosion.

The situation above where the heat is building you get to a point where the heat and fuel are such that it the fire becomes what we call
"ventilation controlled" in these cases improper ventilation will create an rapid input of oxygen resulting in a chain reaction that gives us the "backdraft" this can be explosive to the point of structurally effecting the building and killing people (like Charleston).

The reason windows are knocked out is that horizonal ventilation is the easiest form. If you can get the heat out before it gets critical you stand a better chance of getting a control on the fire.

Our policy is (try before you pry) to open windows and remove screens so that you can resecure the structure after you finish work.

For more information on Ventilation let me know...I teach a rookie class on it.

Oh and some departments get RATHER destructive without reason...don't know why. If you will let me know a specific incident I can help you but the threads may not be the best place to play that line.”

“Interesting. Thanks!”

“Um no worries...sorry been up since 3 ish working a scene. Luckily I get three WHOLE days off...gonna be in Texas for the weekend. Will try to hook up online.

Well let me go in and check this complaint...you guys have fun.”

“I think they should invent a giant tarp that not only greatly reduces the oxygen, but is hooked to a machine that cools the temp down, like an air conditioner. Firemen with oxygen tanks can go in and water the fire down. Let me know how it works when you make it.”

“Why not just use one of those tents they use when fumigating houses and pump it full of CO2. ;-)”

“Yeah, that was my inspiration.”

“Coward!”

“Who is a coward, Oryx, and why do you think so? was that Tourettes?”

“You are a coward, Sarge, for not having the BALLS to tell your story!!!”

“Well figuring they take "X" minutes to set up...and the fire doubles in size ever minute it burns....I think you would start up with a minor fire and end up with




might be a bad thing LOL and it might be negative for the tent (LOL)

Um C02 is good but the fire is putting off C0 in massive amounts (which actually is FLAMMABLE as heck (hence the famed "smoke explosion")

And we use compressed Air since oxygen tends to make things burn easier. The easiest still is to go in and face it and kill it.”

““You are a coward, Sarge, for not having the BALLS to tell your story!!!”

Oh, ok. So if I tell it, does that mean I am not a coward?”

“XL I think you missed my:
;-)”

“Of course, I'm only joking, but how bad could it be? Do as you will...”

“I still say it's possible. Use air guns to shoot the tent over in a split second. Use non-flammable material. Instead of water use a chemical foam that reduces temperature and oxygen levels.”

“(LOL) Lumber I got it....thats the down side of typing instead of talking....

Sarge we do have a Class A foam which costs BIG BUCKS a gallon. Water is relativly cheap, plentiful, and easy to spray.

IF you have a specific problem with an operation please let me know. And there is NOTHING non flammable. I have had some really bad LOOKING fires that I have had to explain to homeowners.

When I read the libby ideas on stopping the War in Iraq I remember a homeowner we had who was trying to tell the Incident Commander how to fight the fire. After all he had years of experience watching RESCUE 911 and EMERGENCY....(LOL). He was really getting in the way...then we started to ventilate his roof (CUT A HOLE) which was the only way to release the heat.

HE went bananas. I had to explain to his wife and children what we were doing.

OH insurance will pay for all the repairs. If there is an extreme problem they WILL bring it up to the department.”

“And there is NOTHING non flammable.

Is water flammable? Isn't only things you add to water flammable? They recently figured out how to make salt-water flammable, but only if it has salt. I'm sure there is more than one thing in the universe that doesn't burn.”

“oryx=mutt”

“yeah but when heated about 100C it evaporates...plus it is pretty hard to make "anything out" of water...UM water can also be broken down to flammable elements. As in when you spray Water on a flammable Metals fire (say sodium or magnesium) it breaks the molocules down to form the hydrogen it burns and the oxygen it uses to oxydize the chemical and burn.

Call me and I can talk about this incident...or we can throw ideas back and forth...no biggie.”

“The fire incident is from a co-worker. It's over, but thanks.

I'd say if you have an compound that when you break it down into it's elements, they burn, don't do that.”

“LOL....if you ever have a question let me know. I have had occasions where my relatives in Texas had a fire and were concerned about the tactics. I actually knew one of the senior officers so I called him. I understood what they did and called my relatives and explained it to them.


Then there are times that "stuff happens"”

“CHANDLER, Ariz. -- A Rural/Metro firefighter accused of exposing himself to a 3-year-old girl said he only urinated in front of her and that it was OK because he was sitting down, a probable cause statement says.

According to the statement, when the girls' mother wanted to leave an Oct. 21 party, she was unable to find her daughter.

The woman checked the entire house. When she knocked on the door of a locked bathroom near the game room, the statement said, a man replied that he was inside.

The woman continued on through the house, but came back to the game room, where she found her daughter outside the bathroom.


The girl told her mother she'd been inside the bathroom but said she couldn't tell her what happened, according to the statement.

When confronted by another party guest, Brian Hammerschmidt, 30, admitted he'd been in the bathroom with the girl, but said he was helping her use the toilet, the statement says.

Hammerschmidt later said the girl had followed him into the bathroom, but that it wasn't a big deal because he sits down to urinate, according to the statement.

Authorities interviewed the girl but said she wouldn't talk about the incident.

Maricopa County sheriff's deputies located Hammerschmidt on Wednesday and said he came in voluntarily to be interviewed.

When authorities him his rights, the statement says, Hammerschmidt began to cry and said he'd made a serious error in judgment by urinating in front of the girl, even though he was sitting down. Hammerschmidt said it was a bad idea but it "happened so fast," according to the statement.

Hammerschmidt was arrested on one count of indecent exposure.

He has been a Rural/Metro firefighter for four years.

http://www.kpho.com/news/14540182/detail.html”

“Lock His Ass Up and put him on the national sexual predator list.”

“anyone remember who the poster was (i believe it was a girl and she lived out west) who lost her house in a fire?”

“Pam had to evacuate her home, however I don't believe she lost the home.”

“i guess this doesn't need to go to her specifically

I have a coworker whose house burnt down. We are putting together donations for her. Anyone have anything specific that would be great to give in this situation?”

“Are you asking for ideas or if we have anythng to donate?”

“The only TTer that I remember losing a home in a fire (not to mention being badly burned) was Pedxing.”

“ideas”

“Money is always good.
Gift cards to department stores.”

“Did they loose everything?

If so, what do you use on a day to day basis?

Clothing
Toothbrush
Toothpaste
Contact Solution
Shampoo
Soap

Gift Cards to Local Stores (Khol's, Target, Wal Mart)

Where are they staying? Pay for a few night's in the hotel if this is where they are staying”

“PedXing didn't lose the entire house but they did need extensive re-building.

He nearly lost his life getting two teenage boys out safely.”

“Gift cards are best IMHO.

So how long before XL comes around and derides her misfortunes and calls her a leech?”

“A while ago Wolfeyes made a request for donations for someone in that situation.”

“Did she have children Thrifty? A spouse? They will need stuff too. If there's kids, find out the ages because I have a shlt ton of girls clothes that I need to get rid of.”

“Nigal, you got it:)”

“Been there...it sucks.


Toiletries (including "accessory-like stuff: a little mirror, contact lens solutions/accessories, hairbrush/comb, etc) basic clothing, sneakers, towels, and like someone said...gift cards are great. Also ~ clothes for work. That part was hard...having to go shopping and spend money on work clothes when you don't even have a bed.”

“So how long before XL comes around and derides her misfortunes and calls her a leech?�
Nigal
4:47:52 PM
3/27/08

GFYS Nigal there is no one on public dole who got "burned out of a house" they owned.

If its not too late Thrifty maybe I can offer some advice.

Check with her level of Insurance. Did she had replacement or Actual Cash Value?

Given that the insurance company will offer some assistance. Let me know I can send a "what to do after the fire" flyer we hand out.

Next...FOOD, prepared ready to eat or later on heat and eat. If you end up in an apartment or something the whole crap about cooking in a strange kitchen without your own stuff....Its tough.

The biggest thing is keep them in mind in 3 months. Yeah we get a lot of PITY for the people for the first few days. But two or three months later...no one seems to remember.

Finally and most importantly. After a few days if they have kids have someone babysit the kids while the parents get a couple of days to just decompress.

Parents have the dual challenge of being MOM OR DAD and still trying to go through the grieving process.

When I work a fire, regardless of cause. I work with the victims to let them know that if they have questions they can contact dispatch to get me to answer questions. I also try to get the husband or father away from the family so he can dump the pain without looking like he has collapsed (to his kids)

The big thing most people forget is that the mind cna slowly dim the memories. So rather than do the "HEY how are you doing after the fire?" Try,"Hey would you and the wife (husband, SO etc) like a weekend we could take the kids and let you guys just go relax, maybe go shopping (etc.)

Hope that helps.”

“XL offers some very good advice.

I'm assuming everyone is OK. If not, I have some advice there if you fill me in.

As for what to give, I'd start with cash unless they are uninsured. If they are uninsured then get them things. Insurance will never make people entirely whole (but it is still a life saver). It will often cover a lot of expenses - so there is some benefit in being able to spend the cash and get reimbursed.

The insurance is a key issue. Hopefully your friend has good insurance. Often, a good adjuster can help a lot. My insurance company dragged their feet forever. I think they hoped we would get desperate and take whatever they'd give us. Out adjuster took 5% of everything we got, but he was worth it.
If we had no money and no loans from family we couldn't have held out.

Insurance won't cover everything, no matter how good the policy is. At some point, they give you what they think is the depreciated value of everything that was destroyed. If you have a "full replacement value" clause on your insurance - that will help, but the insurance company decides what the "full replacement value" is and you only get that value when you prove you spent the money replacing the item. This goes for rebuilding (or replacing) the house as well as replacing the contents. An adjuster helps advocate for you in determining the replacement value (receipts help, but even if you kept them, they could have gotten burnt up). Also, you have a limited time to do the replacing.

We had "full replacement value." Still, you lose some money in all kinds of places. First, there is the adjuster. Then there are the items where the agreed on value is too low. Anytime you spend less than the value, the insurance company keeps the difference. Anytime you spend more, you pay the difference. Also, there is a catch 22. If you can't buy it because you don't have the money, you can't get the money (that is the difference between the depreciated value and the replacement value). If you can stick it on a credit card, you pay big time interest until the company comes through.”

“One non-monetary kind of help that might be great is help salvaging things. It can be tough work physically and emotionally to sort through what can be recovered and stored and clean, repair and deodorize things. Help might be appreciated.

Everything from my house that seemed salvageable was stored in a big metal storage container. By the time I was healthy enough to look through it, a lot of it had rotted (and was kind of gross) - but had I been able to get there sooner, there would have been a lot of clothes to go through and clean and dry.”