Bike question (Fisher Hard Tails)

“I'm on the verge of getting a new bike for roads, paved trails and also dirt trails and light mountain bike trails (such as the ones at the Middlesex Fells north of Boston). The bikes I rode today that tempted me the most were in this series: The GF Wahoo, Marlin, and Piranha. Any one have any experience with or reaction to these bikes?

I have a decent "beater bike" which is a hybrid (a Goodwill Special) and great for times when I will be parking my bike in sketchy places, an old Canondale (bought used in 1997) touring bike for road trips - so the one thing I lack right now is something for my modest trail outings..”

“Ped,

I can't really say anything about those particular models. However, I will say this: buy one bike for one use and don't try and get an everything bike.

If you think you will do more road, get a road or touring bike. If you think you will do more dirt, get a mtn bike (and you may think about full-suspension, just for a comfort level).

Just my $.02.”

“Thanks Rosey. I'm going to keep my old Canondale as my touring/road bike and going for the Hard Tail (Marlin) for dirt and other trails. I rode six mtn bikes bikes in my price range down an abandoned railroad track, across rotting ties and switch plates (not sure what they are supposed to be called) as well as across dirt, through fields of weeds, etc... and this felt like it was most worth it for what I want it for. I will probably ride it out to the trails I use more often than I throw it on a rack and drive to a trail.”

“Cool! You will no doubt enjoy it. As you probably know, knobby tires can really slow down a road ride. One suggestion, if your trails will be packed and smooth, is to go with something that has good tread but a smooth profile. I highly recommend the Continental Town 'n' Country tires. They are expensive (maybe $40 a tire) but well worth it. I am still riding one of these that is about 15 years old...”

“Thanks Rosey - I see the tires for 28 bucks at Amazon, they seem to come in ATB and MTB versions:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_5/105-0011515-1226024?ie=UTF8&rs=3404981&sort=-price&rh=n%3A3375301%2Cn%3A3403201%2Cn%3A3404731%2Cn%3A3404981%2Cp%5F4%3AContinental&page=5”

“from what I have seen the hard tail suspesnion tail is the equivalent to many of the discussions that go on here. I have a hybrid which is suspension fork/seat post/hardtail and I like it fine. I would be a little wary of a flex tail on all be the roughest of terrain. But some of thevids I watch on line have riders jumping off cliffs on hardtails and the bikes survive just fine. My suspension is if you are expecting the flex tail to be more comfortable for your butt in rough terrain you are spending more time in the saddle than you really should be. What I see is most riders off the saddle in fast rough stuff. To me the trade off between a good solid properly built hardtail and a flex tail comes down to the wear and tear on the bike. And that seems to be a wash depending on personal preference.”

“Rev - those thoughts all make sense to me. In the end I came down on the side of getting something within my budget. A good flex-tail seems to cost a lot more.”

“That's the other mitigating factor for me
hehehe”

“full suspension bikes are really nice for long rides as they save your back from being a shock absorber. The trade off is significant weight and a lose of power transfer (the flex of the reareand wastes a bit of energy). I have a full suspension and love it (thin road tire for streets, knobbies for trail) but would like a light fast hardtail someday.”

“I have a Gary Fisher hard tail (front shocks though) and I love it. It is a hog though and I kind of wish I would have gotten a road bike now.”

“I have never ridden a full suspension frame, but I have done a lot of long riding on both road bikes a my hybrid. I have never had a real back problem if the bike is set up properly, particularly with the seatpost suspension.”

“I ended up with the Marlin - one nice feature is easily adjustable front shocks. I got it at my local bike shop. I got a 100 dollar gift certificate at a charity auction and then I got a couple more gift certificates as presents, so I wasn't out that much cash for it.

http://www.fisherbikes.com/bikes/bike_detail.asp?series=genesis&bike=Marlin”

“I have a full suspension and love it (thin road tire for streets, knobbies for trail) but would like a light fast hardtail someday.”
birch
8:23:50 PM
5/30/07

I rode with a guy last night (well for like 5 min. till he disappeared from sight! lol) that not only was riding a suspensionless bike...not just a hard tail but a solid fork too...PLUS a single gear...some ppl are just gluttons for punishment!!

birch - I'm prolly gonna go ride Yankee Springs on Sat. if you're interested :D
last edited: 5/30/07 8:57:31 PM”

“Betcha dollars to donuts it was a fixed gear bike too....

no coasting permitted. Them's some real hard core peoples.”

“yeah it was....hard core=crazy?? He was fast tho!”

“ramblinrev, I used seatpost suspension on my old hardtail, it helped immensely.

Emjoy the new ride Ped!

Upluver, I have seen some crazy single speed rigid riders, crazy crazy crazy stuff. Enjoy the ride this wknd, I am playing plumber.”

“i am shopping for a mtb right now but given that it will only get used <10 times/year i don't want to dump a lot of dough into one. i am heading in this direction because of the cursed influence of hutchie but also because if my running never returns to par (or close) i am thinking a mtb would be the next best thing to my running on trails... the feeling of high aerobic activity and speed/fast thinking in the backcountry. nothing like it!”

“I can't really do a hardtail on aggressive trail anymore. I rode a nice Cannondale for years (a $1,500 bike back in 1995) and it was great to cut my teeth on. But the serious downhills killed my back, particularly around the kidneys.

My next will likely be a mild full-suspension, as the pivoted frames make me nervous. This bike is the dream: http://www.moots.com/bicycle.php?ID=8”

“what is the story between hardtail vs full suspension? is it just cost... said another way, are there other reasons why people buy hardtail bikes other than that they cost less?”

“Jimmy, to some degree that question is alomst meaningless. Not to say it isn't a good question. But what makes some folks swear by tarp tents and other people swear at them?

Full suspension is almost worse than useless on the road. You lose so much power transfer with the fles and other dynamics like frame angles and fork offset are designed and tailored to the trail.

Riding style is critical. I have seen vids of folks rock bouncing where they are not in the saddle for more than two feet of trail space. The suspension does nothing regarding their back, the body shock is absorbed by the legs, but the frame takes a beating. I have seen folks saddle planted over really rough terrain. There the full suspension might make a difference. I have no need for the full suspension as neither my back, nor my bike is subject to the demands of technical trail riding.

For that matter, when I bought the bike I said I did not plan on off road riding at all. The clerk had enought sense to see through that nonsense. But Techincal single tracking along tree trunk bridges looks cool, but I don't need to do it to appreciate the skill.

My best advise is to hang with the riders, find a good clerk who knows his stuff and get all the information you can. Then make your own mind.”

“Some full suspension bike have a lock out feature, as do some front shocks. This makes the bike act like a hardtail/rigid fork -- e.g. good for climbing. Also, you can always really stiffen up the shocks to make the bike a firmer ride.

Basically, full suspension just absorbs the blows of the trail more than a hard tail at the cost of weight. You're hard pressed to find a full suspension under 30lbs where as most hard tails are well below that.”

“ok, weight difference... something i can sink my teeth into. cost difference works for me as well. i have a touring bike for use on the roads so any bike i buy would pretty much be for single track use. prolly a lot of simple stuff, a few hills. i am thinking i'll start with a hardtail and after a while if i earn it i'll pass the bike down to one of my kids and try something else (more technical... type tbd).

i have seen guys on trails with really simple bikes... not a lot of gears as in only one, and the bike would pedal with power in reverse as well as forward. anyone know what this is all about?”

“that's a "fixie" and don't let appearences fool you. The are amazing machines if they are ridden well and skillfully. They can be death traps if not. Lots of city messengers use fixies for a couple of reasons. One is they look like nothing worth stealing, a plus when you living depends on your ride staying there. Second, most fixies do not have brakes as sujch, you brake by reverse pressure. You can stop on a dime on those things if you know how.

You can also "track stand" that is stay upright motionless for many minutes if you are good. on trail ... they can be wildly exciting, but also unforgivingly demanding of skill”

“Hey, Ped. I love my Wahoo, and it is my "everything" bike. I worked on Gary Fisher's parents house. It was great because he is a collector of the old original psychedelic concert posters. His folks let me hang around and marvel at them. Groovy, is all I can say.”

“well... i went to rei yesterday and wound up not buying one mountain bike... i bought three!

seriously, summer is here and i was sick of getting cheap bikes for my kids. so i went to rei and bought them good bikes this time around.

daughter and youngest son got novara:

http://www.rei.com/product/730454 (daughter)
http://www.rei.com/product/730489 (youngest son)
http://www.rei.com/product/745679 (oldest son)

i still haven't chosen one for myself but given the blow to my wallet (definitely worth it) i may wait a little while. most of the trails around we will ride on i can take my touring bike on for now.
last edited: 6/01/07 8:16:04 AM”

“oh, and rev, a "fixie" is definitely my style but for sure not my skill level.”

“Hey Jimmy - will you adopt me and buy me a bike!

So Dunadan - we ride cousins. People tell me that the Marlin and Wahoo were quite the sh-t many years ago.

Its amazing the way prices have come down since I lask shopped for mountain bikes. The expensive stuff is so far out ahead of what was expensive 12 years ago. And the stuff that was expensive 12 years ago is totally reasonable.”

“If you like your knees, don't buy a fixed gear. They are trendy but have no brakes or freewheel and the only way to slow is by slowing your cadence. They are very rough on your knees...”

“The issue s of knees and fixies go far beyond no brakes. The purpose of the multi-gearing is to match your cadence with the terrain. It is the equivalent of shortening your stride when climbing uphill so you don't push yourself up as far with each step, but maintain the same rythmn. No dice with a fixie. You push whatever gear it is either up or down. Better learn to spin fast cause knee blowouts from high rpm are not much better than wild rides with no feet on the pedals trying to aoid a blown knee.

If knees are a problem, cycling is superb therapy but only because the pedaling action can provide full range of motion with no stress or impact. Kiss that goodbye with the fixie.”

“I like a hardtail bike with a suspension fork and a suspension seat post for off road riding for the area that I ride in. I can see full suspension being nice if you are riding on nasty terrain all the time. For all around riding, dirt roads, fire roads and a little pavement to get to the woods this setup works well for me. I wouldn't want to deal with the weight, power loss and extra maintenance of a full suspension bike.”

“I ride both fixed gear and single speed.

Here is the single speed:


Here is the fixed gear:


The Bianchi is a cyclocross style bike with a steel frame, 42x18 gearing, and 35mm tires. I ride somewhat crappy roads from the train station that I get off at to my office so I use this since it is a more comfortable bike.

The Specialized is a track style bike and it is a blast to ride - just not on rough roads since it is quite rigid. It's got an aluminum frame and 48x16 gearing. I used to ride 23mm slicks on that but have since bumped that up a little for flat protection. I use this one to get from my house to the first train station and back. BTW, I run a front brake on this one. Between that and my legs, plenty of stopping power.

Riding fixed is not for everyone, but if you ever get a chance, give it a go. You are so in tune with the bike and the feeling of momentum is amazing. And when you get out on that smooth pavement, you are flying along and the bike is absolutely silent.

Maintenance is so easy on these too. That's important for the Bianchi since it just goes from my bike locker at the train station to my office and back.”

“so here's a dumb question - whats the diff in a fixed gear and a single speed? I mean, aren't they both just one cog on each end?”

“Technically the fixed gear is a single speed. It's just the terminology most bikers use to differentiate them. The single speed has a freewheel so you can coast.

The fixed gear has a cog and a lockring. No coasting on them unless you have broken something. The cranks turn, the chain advances, the cog and wheel turn - all together forward or back. Most people crash a couple times getting used to the fixed gear. I did. Imagine cruising along and thinking "I'll coast now" then trying to stand on the pedals. If your leg's locked, you're going over. It's best to learn with platform pedals then switch to clipless.”

“I have seen rear wheels built where one side is fixed and the other has a freewheel, you just turn whatever you feel like riding to the chain. I think they are cool since you can have the best of both worlds and am considering getting one I have seen that is designed as a commuter, with paniers, fenders and a moustache bar. Funky!”

“What you are describing is a flip-flop hub. My Specialized has it. I just have the freewheel on the non-drive side.

Are you talking about the Redline 925, rosey?”

“I am not sure. Gotta a pic?”

“Found it. Yup, that's the one.

http://www.redlinebicycles.com/adultbikes/925.html”

“That's definitely a cool bike. A great commuter setup. I was considering it when I got the Bianchi.”

“ok, i get it - that difference makes some sense to me now.”

“In Montreal, the streets are so full of pot-holes that riding a mtn. bike or at least a hybrid with wide tires is the way to go. Racers will end up with twisted wheels and blown tires.

Over ten years of street riding and averaging 6 outings a year off-road I still do not need to true my wheels of my two bikes...an alpinestar Al-Mega and a Marlin Nailtrail. Both are hardtails with suspension up front.”

“I scored a Schwinn Suburban men's 10 speed for free on Sat. Just sitting out in the street with a free sign on it. Needs a little SOS pad love for the rust but otherwise, it's a sweet find. New commuter...”

“love that free stuff.....sounds like a great find too........enjoy the ride........”

“oh yes - free bikes are the best bikes”

“I believe it's in Holland where the government leaves bikes all over their cities, so that anybody can just grab a bike and do a small/long commute. After you reach your destination...you leave the bike by a bike rack and someone else would use that bike. When you're done with your business you go out and grab another bike to go to another destination or home.”

“stanlee that happens in my area sorta, but we call it theft.”

“There are programs like that in the US, in Portland OR, Austin Tx, Santa Cruz and I think in Bennington Vermont and a few other places.”

“detroit, LA, East St Louis, Gary Ind, and many othr large cities have a program similar to the one I mentioned too.”

“Lol we have a similar program where I live also...here however, it's considered common courtesy to throw the bike in the river after you're done with it, that way the next person can go for a fun little swim before he peddles off to his destination!”

“with or without front tire?”

“lol..that all depends on if you lock the front wheel to the bike rack or not!”