In GSMNP, Stealing a man's cookstove.... That's low

“dumshlt got what he deserved...........”

“That is why there is so little crime on the trail.

The getaway takes days.”

“i do a lot of pitching tent, or staking space in the shelter, and subsequently leaving my gear to go on day hikes or offtrail routes and return later. the smokies are remote, but i'm always in constant fear of my gear getting stolen. i primarily fear the horseback folks, who have the capability to carry your stuff out with ease, and out run you and word of the theft. hikers and horseback riders frequently think negatively about the other, which isn't exactly a deterrent to theft. i all too often, when on trails also accessed frequently by horses, take my large backpack filled with sleeping bag and stove with me even on offtrail hikes despite coming back to camp, as it's too expensive to lose.

it's not that i wouldn't put it past hikers to steal, but i feel like i could catch up to them if they did, or at least move as quickly , possibly by an alternate route, to alert rangers, as was the case with this incidence. also, hikers seem to have a bond among each other even if strangers, and this assumed bond, in my experience, is not shared between hikers and horseback riders in the smokies, but to the contrary.”

“it should also be noted that the likelihood of horseback theft, as opposed to theft by hiker, is because of ease and logistics. im not trying to start an anti-horse thread.”

“pjbarr - I'm confused. Just what do you include in "Smokies?" In GSMNP horses are not permitted on all of the AT, and thus can not get to all of the shelters. Also, one can only stay one consecutive night at the same shelter, so I don't see how one could leave thier gear there until returning for the night.

In addition, I don't believe horses are permitted on the AT outside of GSMNP.
last edited: 6/05/07 12:00:09 AM”

“nowslimmer,

i don't see how this is very confusing. for instance, in april i hiked up with full pack and gear to spence field shelter and reached there by late morning. i left my airpad and a few articles of clothing to claim space in the shelter, as I am not foolish enough to think that simply having reservations guarantees a spot in the shelter, particularly in thru hiker season. i wished to leave my pack along with sleeping bag, stove, etc at the shelter. i chose not to, with the proximity of the shelter to cades cove, which all of the trails that lead from there proximate to spence field DO allow horses. Furthermore, the Jenkins Ridge Trail allows horses from the south, and the entire AT from just past Shuckstack allows horses as well. Thus, they could come from all directions. I left the shelter with the majority of my gear, hiked and bushwhacked to the summit of Blockhouse Mountain off of the Jenkins Ridge Trail at Haw Gap, shoftcutted back to the AT where the Jenkins Ridge Trail parallels it, hiked AT over Thunderhead and out to the summit of Brier Knob, which is NOT on the trail despite a lot of people's reports. Later, as I was going to sleep, I was reading the shelter log, and was vindicated by taking my gear, as a horse rider had written a month prior, angrily, about how hikers though they "owned" the shelter.

Mollies, Russell, Spence, Silers, Pecks, Tricorner, Cosby Knob, Laurel Gap, and Davenport Gap all are reachable, legally, by horse. Mt. Collins is close enough to the road to have the same sentiment. Icewater is frequented enough to be included in the group of ones I would not leave my gear unattended at. In fact, only LeConte, Derrick Knob, and Double Springs aren't reachable by horse. Oh I forgot Kephart, which is horse accessible as well.

I've done the same thing at Tricorner Knob after coming from Laurel Gap, before going out seeking sixers before I would spend the night there.

I just read some of the posts at the bottom of that article. I hadn't even thought of, or considered, using a combination padlock to prevent my gear from being lowered by others when I am gone. This may had a few ounces, but it would have eased my mind enough in these situations to leave it behind and save the trouble of weight on a dayhike and bulkiness offtrail.

Did you finish off the Smokies campsites?”

“Horses on the trail just plain sucks.”

“pjbarr - You're way ahead of me. In fact you hike too fast for me. I had assumed that you spent a night at a shelter before going day hiking the next day, returning to the shelter for the second night. Usually, when I reach a shelter, I'm done hiking for the day.

However, I have dayhiked from Icewater Spring to visit Charles Bunion, either in an afternoon after arrival or in the morning before departing to 441. In either case I would leave my gear at Icewater Spring.

Yes, you covered the shelters well. However, your statement, "In fact, only LeConte, Derrick Knob, and Double Springs aren't reachable by horse." could be quoted, but by itself it would be incorrect. It needs a qualifier, like, "Of the other shelters," or the inclusion of Icewater Spring and Mount Collins, neither of which are reachable by horseback. You had already discussed both of those shelters.

Thanks for your explanation.”

“fingerlakeshiker - You're correct. However, part of the original agreement between the US Government and the States of North Carolina and Tennessee, in establishing the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, provides for horse trails. A large percentage of the trails must be available for horseback riding. So, actually, it is a Horseman's Park more than a Backpacking Park.

pjbarr - There are still six sites at which I have not stayed overnight. Three of them are reachable only by water.
last edited: 6/05/07 6:42:37 AM”

“That's like me wishing GSMNP would be car free...then i found out that AAA donated one of the largest chunks of cash when it was being setup.”

“Trail thieves have to be one of the lowest forms of life on this planet.”

“What kind of stove was it?”

“Is the Kephart shelter named after Horace Kephart?”

“The bond between hikers is there, this thief was not a hiker, he was on the run.”

“Gremlin - Yes.”

“It's a myth to think bad people don't hike.”

“That is loooow. I have heard of car camping people having their stuff stolen but never backpackers. I mean, who wants to tote out extra gear anyway? I used to be paranoid about this and still am, somewhat, if I am camped next to major trail junction and head off on a day hike or something. However, I mostly try to stealth camp these days.”

“Hmmmm...

sounds like stoveswiper has been busy!”

“Camping gear envy. That Burchfield character probably doesn't appreciate how warm his jailcell in Mississippi is this Saturday morning compared to the upper teens they're seeing on the Smokies portion of the AT. Tales of encounters with people like him remind me of why I sometimes carry a lock with me in the Smokies backcountry.

Yep, a lock. Those of you who've hiked in the Smokies know about the pack hanging cable systems there but did you know that with a regular size padlock you can latch the cables so that your hanging pack cannot be lowered? Yep. It works great and is a good way to be sure your pack is still hanging there the next morning. Obviously from this Burchfield story the bears aren't the only critters we backcountry hikers have to worry about.



I didn't know you could lock your stuff up the cable. I'll probably have to tote a lock for when I take side trips now. A couple of years ago, all my stuff together wasn't worth $200. Since I've had to replace everything, I've got some serious money laying arounda at the campsite!”

“I'll have to remember that, BS.”

“Thats nothing! I lost almost all my gear at Trail Days in Damascus,Va. I left the campfire to go get my headlamp and my pack and everything in it was gone!They stole m7y lantern the night before.I was only about 20 yards from my gear when it got stolen.My pack also included about 200 bucks worth of shwag that I had just bought and never got to use...mostly Titanium.
last edited: 6/05/07 6:15:05 PM”

“Ha! I can just lift your pack up and clear of the holding hooks of the cable with my bo(hiking pole). You can't lock me away from a good meal. But your lock will help me decide which bag to loot first!”

“for some, you may be able to do that, but a lot are much higher than you stick to reach the bottom of the pack and get any leverage on it.

the ones at many shelters seem frequently low enough for that to happen because they sometimes haul in telephone poles to erect the cable system. at many campsites, they're high up in the trees.”

“why two names?”

“Actually, the installers returned and went through the entire Park. They raised a good percentage of the cables.

I forgot to change back. I use the other name where it seems appropiate or when I'm is a certain mood. It reflects my martial arts training in aikijutsu. In a number of different ways I've learned how to break bones quickly, if it is ever needed.

Now that I'm older and parking in the Disabled Spots, I'm more of a target for some of the young ones looking for an easy mark. However, I don't intend to be an easy mark.”

“It wasn't me! I promise! Besides, I just steal stoves, not food! :)”