Harassed by a Ranger

“This weekend I took my family on a nice car camping trip to South Mountain State Park in Burke County North Carolina. We had the best campsite in the Park right by the river.The weather couldn't have been more beautiful with nice calm winds and perfect temps.I took the grill/smoker and was fine tuning a beautiful pork loin that I had marinated for two days in Jack Daniels and terriyaki.At dusk the female Ranger came by to collect the fee for camping and she saw the retired Army sticker on my truck and we talked a little about our service. I thought this is a pretty cool gal and then she said "Sir I smell alcohol and it is absolutly prohibited in ths Park" with serious attitude!I told her it had to be the marinated meat or my Copenhagen Black (Bourbon flavored) and told her she was free to look for alcohol in my camp but she didn't and went about her business.Later we ate dinner and decided to play some Spades around the picnic table and low and behold here she comes out of the woods behind my camp looking all around, looking in the back and front of my truck and in my daughters car.Then she tells me after not finding the imaginary alcohol that they have quiet hours and that they inforce them.My truck radio was on Public radio station just loud enough that we could make out what song was playing.To beat all they came by and emptied the trash cans at least four times that evening just looking for booze bottles.I did have a little booze with me in the truck but since it was a family thang I never intended to break it out.This really came close to ruining my weekend but I shook it off and had a good time with my wife and daughter.I still think that it was harassment...what about you?

Iffin I mispelled HARASSED sorry!
last edited: 6/17/07 4:21:33 PM”

“I think it is crap Spam. Just another instance of someone getting a big head because they think they have some authority, and the want to bust somebody for something. I have had a problem like that with a police officer once. Really burns my biscuits!”

“If she smelled the booze just by being around the camp she had reason to be concerned. Next time leave the booze at home and avoid these types of problems.”

“Yo SPAM...........sounds like the Rangers are very BORED to do what they did..........I could see this happening if you were broadcasting the booze.
Hey look at it this way.you had the cleanest trash cans in NC. Also you beat them at there Game............”

“Davey I never got the bottle out of the truck box, nor did I intend to.The only thing that she could have smelled was the marinade that I bought at Walmart.I was cooking for goodness sakes!
Not drinking!

Fridge I guess your right. But Geeeez! I was really pissed more that she would screw with a fellow Soldier!”

“Somebody needs to tell these half-assed "public servants" that Prohibition was repealed nearly a century ago.”

“Your not seeing or smelling her point, if she smelled the stuff she had reason to believe. That allowed her to become that what she is. Just would of had to been there to really agree with you, her side is not being told.”

“That allowed her to become that what she is.
davey crockett
7:04:34 PM
6/17/07



What?”

“I rekkon your entitled to your opinion!”

“As a new canoe shuttle jockey I had the opportunity to observe some park service rangers this weekend. On the positive side they busted those carrying glass bottles on the river. I saw this as a good thing because they are most often drunks and the bottles frequently are broken and present a hazard. On the somewhat negative side is that most of the female park ranger were so obese they presented a hazard to themselves and to others as they paddled the river in their canoes. I have nothing against the overly large, but these two rangers could not have helped anyone in an emergency, let alone themselves.”

“My encountered Ranger was a large person also.”

“Your not seeing or smelling her point, if she smelled the stuff she had reason to believe. That allowed her to become that what she is. Just would of had to been there to really agree with you, her side is not being told.”
Okay That said davey crockett, yes she does have a job to do but in my experience with Law Enforcement, you may look into the suspicion but it takes a GOOD OFFICER to move on looking for other areas that may need attention and with the knowledge that there MAY BE alcahol there at SPAM's location just keep your eyes and ears open not to single them out . Reminds me like a deputy or a Local small town COP would react.
Every one is under suspicion with the LAW. It's the trainning, It take GOOD SENSES to be GOOD Officer or Ranger. I still think she was BORED and her EGO is driving her as usual........EGO's”

“This has happened to us several times at one of the camping/landing areas. Being a National River, it is overseen by The Dept of The Interior and lemme tellya these guys put Barney Fife to shame. They will actually wait in the woods behind your camp and spy on you awhile and then burst out and surprize you. It's weird and stupid. They even try to get you to rat out other campers around you, asking multiple times if we've heard anyone getting roudy our too loud. The last time they asked me, I was getting frustrated and told them that the whip-or-will in that tree was really getting on my nerves and could he shoot it with his 9mm. That got rid of them. They will hide along the river when you float and spy on people, looking for people fishing without a liscense or smokin refer or whatever. It's gettin bad. Takes away from the whole enjoyment of being out in the wild for solitude and relaxation.”

“Park Rangers are just like everyone else....there are good ones, not so good ones and bad ones. Often the new ones need a little help with their people skills. Occasionally, one is simply a jerk who should be working somewhere else.

I had some issues with a new Ranger in Lassen a few years ago. The guy had the attitude that he knew you were breaking the law, he just hadn't caught you at it yet. He finally pissed me off enough to complain. I've been working with the park for years so when I mentioned it to my supervisor she had me file a report and call one of the head honchos to explain what happened.

To the guys credit, he turned out to be OK. He could have been vindictive, but he treated me like nothing happened and I know he knew who raised the stink. I know he got a real ass chewing, turns out I wasn't the only that had issues with him. Turns out he was green, transferred from a city area where he was heavily involved with enforcement and his people skills were lacking. He also did not understand the different rules for the backcountry.

I was impressed enough with his new attitude that I called management again and told them how much the guy had improved. We became friends after that.

If you feel you have been treated unfairly, write a letter. It will not go unread. If they operate like Lassen, they will follow up.

It's also not a bad idea to let them know when one of them does a really good job.”

“Howdy, Hot Rod. I don't think I've seen you here before. What part of the country do you hail from? Hope the folks here gave you a civilized welcome.”

“well said steve”

“(It's the Second Coming of Stratdewd... with password amnesia)”

“er, uhhmmmMM....yeah, what Tilt said. I'm stratdewd...From NW ARKANSAS, USA”

“Like I said.......Most of the Law enforcement who depict this drive is over reacting . If your head is clear and confident in your instincts and know who you are.there is no need to react this way.......

There are several hefer cows up on the hill and 2 big bulls one is 2 years old and the other is 6 years old, the 2 year ol;d bull says hey lets go get them lady cows on the hill, hurry hurry ,the old bull says to the younger bull,look , lets walk up the hill and screw them all............

Overreacting police officers are a sign of under Trained, EGO problems, or just plai ole has no DEPTH with the Human side of reality...........”

“hey fridge, I aint done no cow screwin inna long time. I just don't roll that no more....”

“Ah HA! Gotcha Hot Rod.

You know, I have a friend who is a Conservation officer for the state and is a really nice guy, He has had a management job and voluntarilly went back down to a field position, West Point grad, all that. But he patrols the lakes in the summer time, and looks for poachers in the winter etc. I have personally seen him confiscate everything from vehicles and dogs right down to a mans boots for poaching and trespassing, but he is a reasonable person, and one of the most level headed individuals I have ever met. You would never catch him behaving this way. Steve's right there's good, there's bad, then there's mediocrity.”

“If you want to talk about state ranger commandos don't leave out PA state parks finest. They have been known to wake up sleeping campers and tell them to move their tent because a corner of it is on a patch of grass.

Again, not saying all are like this. I am sure there are folks who have had their bacon saved by the PA State Parks people.”

“Sooooo...what's the big problem with poachin'?”

“haha. i was hikin the AT in Pa in 04. i left my pack in a parking lot and went into the woods to dig a cathole. after several minutes of looking for a suitable spot to dig, i just got my pants pulled down, mooning the highway, when a cop car pulls into the parking lot. an officer gets out and suspiciously eyes my pack, and goes off looking for me in the wrong direction. at first i thought i was going to get ticketed for indecent exposure, but he hadnt seen me (hence going off in the wrong direction). he musta thought leaving my pack unattended was a suspicious thing to do, because he next asked to see my identification, ostensibly for my safety, but i knew that was bullshirt. he was professional the whole time, but i was amused by the whole thing. im glad he wasnt a tsa officer and that i didnt have a sippy cup”

“You always carry a bottle of hooch in your truck?”

““Sooooo...what's the big problem with poachin'?”
Nimblefoot
8:27:59 PM
6/17/07

I prefer over easy.

Crash, what did this guy think it was an airport.
"all unattended baggage will be removed and destroyed..."

Last year I was car camping in an un-named stated in an un-named park.
Some un-named friends and I were sitting around drinking bottled beer around an imaginary fire, since fires are no longer permitted.
A ranger came around and chatted for a while and told us that bottles were no longer permitted.
We had nothing but bottled beer!
He told us that since banning fires the trash problem was almost non-existent.
It seems that some morons like to put bottles in the fire and the rangers would find lots of melted glass in the fire pits as a result.
He said not to worry that he was not interested in bothering us about the bottles, just keep them out of sight.
Nice guy.”

“Don't you bacpac? LOL No I don't always have a bottle of hooch in my truck but just so happens the day before I went camping I stopped by the ABC store to conduct some business and decided to restock some Bourbon and had forgotten to take it out of my truck. I have a utility bed with 8 cabinets and keep them all locked.I keep work stuff on the drivers side and fun stuff on the other at all times. THings like: waters bottles,lantern,stove,tent,fishing poles and gear and this week a bottle of bourbon!(unopened)”

“if you get caught with alcohol in a state park or national park, do you get a fine? then maybe the heavyhanded enforcement is tied into the fundraising-thru-fines quota system?”

“I'm sure there is a fine involved. I think anytime you get in trouble with someone with a gun and badge it will probably cost you a doller or two!”

“It depends on which state, Helinka.

Beer is permitted in New York and prohibited in Pennsylvania.

Dang puritans!!”

“Spam!!
Welcome to the club!! LOL
I get about two of those a year as your are not allowed to drink in a lot Illinois State Parks or camp in many of them (or Forest Preserves either). I still do both!!
Onward towards civil disobedience!!! Rally men, Rally!!!Oh yeah, women too!!!
Oh the horror.
See ya later.
Randall”

“But Randall you're missing the point bro...I wasn't doing anything wrong!”

“A lot of good comments and observations above.

The vast majority of my contacts with Park Rangers have been quite positive. I have always been impressed by their professionalism and dedication.

I would love to hear the Park Rangers side of this contact. No one got a ticket despite a technical violation of the law. The Park Rangers investigated their suspicions without violating anyones Constitutional Rights. If they were less than the perfection of courtesy, it is a product of a natural defense mechanism from dealing day after day with REAL intentional violators who despoil our wilderness that we all love. In my career as a prosecutor, it was my most difficult mission in helping street officers deal with honest citizens in a manner that would minimize a bad impression.

FBI studies show that the assertive (meaning aggressive) police officer has a significantly less chance of being murdered on duty. Somtimes the better way to deal with "assertive" officers is to have a thicker skin, and realize their assertiveness is a defense mechanism that helps them survive their careers so they can go home to their families alive each night. In 2006, some 48 police officers did not survive and were murdered in the line of duty.
last edited: 6/17/07 8:33:12 PM”

“That reminds me of when a bunch of TT'rs and their families invaded Robert Treeman State Park. We all took sites beside each other with a gathering site in the middle so we wouldn't disturb the other campers. Mapes went across the road and sort of into the woods and 2 rangers came out of the woods and told all of us we had to stay on the sites! HUH??? They also came by several times to tell us to be quieter. They were okay about that. But the coming out of the woods thing was creepy!!!!

Actually it was all Maple's fault!”

“Dang, from smelling alcohol to murder!!”

“yeah, i know not all parks have alcohol bans Marko. it's the same up here.

do they just kick you out of the park down there or do you have to pay for your 'crimes' as well?
any fines handed out by park rangers would go into the park system's coffers right?
if your funding is anything like ours, i can see why the rangers may be anxious to hand out tickets”

“Point well taken prosecutor. My experience with Park officials has always been positive until this one and I just felt like I was being bullied and I was being very cooperative and friendly to the Ranger. I always try to follow the rules.Well almost.”

“Doesn't matter whether you agree with the law or not, if you're not supposed to have alcohol at your campground or state park, then you're not supposed to have alcohol, period.

There are statistics all over the place about why this is increasingly the case. Too many folks simply don't know their limits, end up drunk & disorderly causing all kinds of problems for everyone. The only answer is to ban alcohol.”

“i think most of out parks have a running ban that includes every holiday weekend and the two weeks preceeding and following.
that ends up being most of the summer.
so quityercomplainin'
lol

damn spell-checking kid.
last edited: 6/17/07 8:38:14 PM”

“This is why I love living out west. Drive down a dirt road, pull off a side road, set up your camp and no permits, no hassles, no neighbors and no rangers.”

“curfews in parks (im looking at you, robert tremain state park) are bogus”

“I WAS NOT DRINKING NOR DID I INTEND TO!

I only used a Jack Daniels marinate bought off the grocery store shelf!”

“Dang Spam this just isnt your year for being outdoors.

Gitmo in Burke county, go figure?

I happen to know someof the state park rangers over there and that neck of the state doesn't bred the friendliest folks.

South Mountain State Park is situated in about four different counties and those folks for decades, heck back to the Rev War; have never really had much contact with law enforcement or gov't folks.

I can see a Park Ranger there being a little tough on folks because of all the people she has to deal with over there who are arses, the litters, vandels, drunks, methheads, etc. who give us a bad name. Having been in law enforcement for a long time and working in that area some; you get that way.

It is still no excuse once she realized that you were a decent guy.

Back in 93-94 I was a forest ranger for the state of NC and was assigned to work the state fair. The wildlife officers were right beside our display. Their display was the robot/remote controlled deer decoy they use to catch poachers and they had a video that was looped showing videos of arrests made with it.

As god is my witness; one idiot on the tape was arrestted three times in one day for poaching the deer in the same spot. He spotlighted it with his truck, shot it and was arrestted. He went home, re-armed, and came back within two hours and shot it again. He was arrestted. Much later in the night a truck appears, decoy spotlighted and shot with a pistol. The wildlife officers stop the man, same guy, as he is approaching the decoy deer with a psitol and a knife. Arrestted a third time.

That took place less than a mile from South Mountain State Park.....now you see the locals that the ranges have to put up with.

Ignorance is bliss...it's rather blissful around those parts.”

“haha redroxx, you forgot:
"and no water"

'course, if you're camping with Spam, you don't need water
LOL
last edited: 6/17/07 8:40:37 PM”

“Yerby there are jokes all around my neck of the woods about people from Casar,NC...I really didn't consider that!”

“Nice try but ti doesn't add up.

Think about it. A speeding ticket in NC will cost you 125.00 plus court costs. Equals about 215.00.

Let's see... State Trooper Pay for the hour he cites you 35 bucks. The hour he has to spend in court with you. 35 bucks. The hour of the assistant DA 40 bucks. The combined hour of all of the lackeys who push the paper behind the scene...50 bucks. Factor in depreciation, judge salary and all of the other court officials salaries as well as the hidden expenses and the state doesnt recover any money for that ticket.

I would love to see a study on that to see how costly stupid fines are.”

“A study YES...A ticket/fine NO!”

“If you feel as though you treated unfairly contact the park superintendent and Division of Parks in Raleigh. Remain calm, do not use names and stick to the facts as you recall”

“a nice ranger in the grand canyon told us that her goal isn't cash from tickets, it's compliance. if she can get complance through other methods then that's what she will do... but the parks can't run off of ticket revenue and in her case she said that the park doesn't get a dime for the money paid for tickets. basically, as i see it, she was saying that she was measured on compliance to the regulations for the park and not on tickets issued. i think it was one of the more enlightening talks a ranger ever gave me.”

“edoc, I'm not out to make trouble for the little lady Ranger I just needed to vent a little and you guys allowed me to do that. I'm all better now!”