Consider Mayor Mike...

“There’s been much outcry on this forum for a third-party candidate to come along, bringing with him/her some sort of reform for American politics. I don’t think either of the opposing forces would object to this concept. The polarization here is representative of the general population of the U.S., only more emotional and explosive, given the “safety net” that the anonymity of the internet provides.

But that aside, I think that there may be some consensus among us that something has to break, that the state of the politics of this nation is unsettled, at best.

Personally, I’m of the belief that there doesn’t exist a potential leader that I could honestly say I could support unconditionally. I even feel that I don’t disagree with GWB 100% of the time. Close, but not 100%. The field of candidates in the 21st century is, IMO, dismal on both sides of the fence. There doesn’t seem to be anyone out there that I would consider a true statesman (woman).

However, the point of all this is to present the name of a man I feel may come close to being a good answer to this “personnel” problem, NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg. Now, I honestly can say that I don’t feel totally comfortable with the direction the city has gone. There’s way too much over-development. We are seeing more luxury condos than we will be able to sustain in the long haul. The disparity between rich and poor is at its worst level ever, but that’s also indicative of the direction the entire country is going. And so on...

But, overall, Mike’s been a pretty damned good leader for this city. He’s been WAY more honest and forthright with the people than Guiliani ever was. He brought this town into fiscal well-being, made strides in education and manages social programs without making this place a welfare state.

It was announced this morning that Bloomberg has gone independent. He has distanced himself from either party and wants to govern that way. I like to think that he is being truthful, considering he has conducted himself in that fashion since becoming mayor. Mayor Mike says that he is not going to run. But, I have a gut feeling that he may turn that around. He hasn’t ruled out a run either.

So, in conclusion, I attempt here to give you an answer to a wish that’s been expressed on this board many times, a truly independent candidate.”

“YAAAWN....yeah I hear the other goober NY mayor just cut his Campaign director in SC loose....”

“Intelligent answer # 1. Next!”

“Geez Treebeard, if it ain't Republican, it's crrrrrrap!”

“I don't put too much into this guy's answers. If it has anything to do with this city, he's got something nasty to say about it.

I don't see him offeing up anyone better.”

“I just heard that he started out as a dem. is that true?”

“Yes, he converted to repub in 2001. But, frankly, he hasn't shown leanings towards either side as a general rule.”

“I agree with that”

“"If it has anything to do with this city, he's got something nasty to say about it."

You got that!

The sympathy for NYC that rose to the surface on September 12, 2001 has all but faded and we are seeing more of the "animosity as usual" toward your fine city, Tree.”

“LOL...for every Democrat you can show me who claims to be a Republican...I can show you a life long Republican who is NOT a Republican. The Republicrat party is overrun with people looking to put R after their name.”

“I blame Pace Foods. Their salsa commercials started it all.”

“Would that be pronounced, "pah-chay", as in Latin?
The meaning of "pace" is "peace".
Only if it is MILD SALSA could "peace" apply.

I suppose XLax would rather see a politician who wants to put a KKK after their name.
LOL”

“Thats Violin”

“Come on XL, aren't you proud of your racist heritage?”

“LOL...for every Democrat you can show me who claims to be a Republican...I can show you a life long Republican who is NOT a Republican. The Republicrat party is overrun with people looking to put R after their name.”
XL400236

Laugh all you want! (BTW, you're not that funny!)
Do you intentionally miss the point of EVERYTHING and then steer it in the direction of your own convenience. The whole point is to look towards a third-party. This is the case here, whether you want to alter the intent or not.

(Aside to self) Oy, why am I bothering with this guy?”

“

HERE YOU GO!

Tree...is it me or do you just seem to be suffering from a severe case of ilioptorectus?


I keep reading your stuff and I cannot help but remember the Movie Good Morning Vietnam...and the last words of Adrian Cronauer to Sgt. Major Dickerson”

“I think you're all uneasy with the potential of a real third party assault on the single party (one that projects being two separate parties ,but is really just the two ends of the same) that has run this country for years.”

“
No stranger to sweeping generalizations either, eh , Unc?

I think this newly former Republican warrants further scrutiny.  I do have a healthy mistrust of All politicians --- possibly because I came of age in the middle of Watergate [VBG].  If he gets elected and turns out to be the Anti-Bush, it's all your fault Treebeard!

For the life of me, I can't recall why such a hullabaloo is made over Giuliani.  In regard to 9/11 --- he made some rousing speeches after the fact?

Just an FYI: his man in South Carolina was pitched overboard because he got popped with a snootful of Peruvian Marching Powder.

”

“Republicans = Exxon
Democrats = Mobile
Bloomberg = Chevron

But I'm a political pessimist.”

“I think Bear, Uncliff and Tilt all have it right....I think the very fact that they start making noises to be President makes them suspect.”

“Who are they kidding?
They are all Hillary's boy's.”

“Giuliani, what a putz!

A recent story in The New York Times tells of how quite a few firefighters dislike Guiliani and say he has been riding their coat tails.

One guy told his wife that if anything happens to him, don't let Giuliani show up at the funeral.”

“Why not forget the 2008 election. Draft the four living presidents into slavery 14 hours a day undoing all that they did while in office. Bush 41 would need some help to cover his 4 and woodchoppers 8 years. President Jimgeobilgeo. Bartender...!!”

“LOL...make it an episode of survivor...but the winner gets left on the island.”

“Let me clarify: anyone who leaves their party in "disgust" and becomes "independent" is more often than not a very close shade of said party. Hardly 3rd party.”

“SO what's the next logical step, Nazism?”

““Let me clarify: anyone who leaves their party in "disgust" and becomes "independent" is more often than not a very close shade of said party. Hardly 3rd party.”
bearmagnet
3:50:49 PM

Who said he left the party in disgust?
So, what are you saying? That he has to start out as an independent or he has no credibility? Do you have a clue what you're talking about?

“Giuliani, what a putz!

A recent story in The New York Times tells of how quite a few firefighters dislike Guiliani and say he has been riding their coat tails.

Read a SCATHING editorial written by the head of the Uniformed Firefighters Assn about Guiliani just the other day. Yes, he is not exactly looked upon favorably by these guys.”

“The story I read was from last Sunday's Times, I think.

One of the guys said something like......."people in Nebraska think Giuliani is a hero......they don't know what the hell they're taking about...he's a self-promoter..."”

“Guiliani wanted to get business up and running lower Manhattan and did so (in conjunction with Christie Whitman and the EPA) in saying that the air quality was safe there, knowing full well that most of those toxins hadn't even been tested for yet. America's Mayor, my ass!”

“Who said he left the party in disgust?
So, what are you saying? That he has to start out as an independent or he has no credibility? Do you have a clue what you're talking about?

Testy today? LOL!

Please forgive my use of "disgust" when describing anyone who leaves their political party. Remove it from my clarification. Also please note, I said in the beginning that I am a pessimist. Please also note that I also said is "more often than not".

He did, however, "abruptly" leave his party. I feel safe in saying he is most likely a close shade of a Republican. I might even be able to say he is most likely a sane version of Perot.

Furthermore, he was a long time Dem before his first(?) mayoral bid. Dem -> GOP -> Ind. So I may be inclined to think he, like many, uses flavors of the day to get where he wants to get.

But that's me, the VERY PESSIMISTIC bearmagnet who needs some convincing.

Nothin' more.

And no, a politician doesn't have to be born 3rd party. But it helps.

;)”

“Hey buddy! Fill up your glass a little more! :^P”

“As with any politician my measuring gage is, How would they be on freedoms?”

“Don't worry Nigal, you can keep your Asian porn.

>8^b”

“I'd be willing to give Bloomberg a look. From this side of the river it seems like he's been a good mayor, even if some of his early decisions pissed off a lot of the political establishment.”

“I'm willing to consider him and learn a little about his background. In 2000 and 2004 my votes were not for anyone just anti-Bush. One thing for certain is that we will be better off regardless of who wins.”

“having read a little bit about him now I can start a Freedom Score Card for Mayor Bloomburge. This does not mean my mind is made up about him. I do have concerns about someone who is a life long democrat turning republican, getting elected and then going indi. But th at doesn't have anything to do with his stances of freedoms.

*Good* For abortion

*Good* All city cabs would be hybrids by 2012.

*Bad* Extended the smoking ban

*Bad* Banned trans fats.

*Bad* Proposed congestion fees- this would entail having a tracking device that bings you every time you go into certain areas of the city like Manhattan.

*Bad* Supports Ted (hic!) Kennedy's immigration bill and wants illegal immigrants protected.

*Bad* Strong advocate of gun control.

*Bad* $3 billion dollar tax hike in 2003.”

“Who are they kidding?
They are all Hillary's boy's.”
StoveStomper
1:58:51 PM
6/20/07

who and what are you talking about?”

“*Bad* Extended the smoking ban

*Bad* Banned trans fats

These are not "freedom issues", they are fiscal good sense.

The health issues tied to these items are costing the taxpayers money that could be spent more wisely on education or pay raises for public servants like firefighters, for instance.”

“well I just heard that he has no planes on running for pres”

“MarkO the problem I have with any control of personal choices is that one day the control changes to "the other side". I do not want Moral Bob telling me I cannot suntan, or cannot drink alchohol (though I don't drink)

If the cost of "sins" is too much eliminate Mommy Government free money programs. If they want to be on "welfare or the DOLE" heck make it a contract thing.

We pay them they have to play by our game.

but if I am paying my own way don't tell me how to live.”

“I think some of the bans are more for the younger generation. looking out for there health is the right thing”

“Nigal, you did what I was hoping some would do actually looked into the issues and the job he's doing. Like I said in the beginning, in some ways, I don't like the direction the city is going. But, I do think Mike B is leaning towards the positive side.

Please let me try and clear up a few points, as they are not as black and white as you put them.

First, Bloomberg is not actually an independent. He is considered unaffiliated, reason being that it is more consistent with his governing style. I find this to be a true statement.

Good* For abortion

Pro choice. This really doesn't need to be expounded upon. Pretty clear there.

*Good* All city cabs would be hybrids by 2012.

The green initiatives undertaken by city government in Bloomberg's vision of the future are spot on, IMO. It is predicted that NYC will have nine million people by 2030 and Bloomberg has laid out a comprehensive plan for that. He is a very smart man and has consistently produced meaningful and successful solutions to problems.

*Bad* Extended the smoking ban

Not sure why you see this as so bad. Risk from second hand smoke is a reality, whether you want to admit it or not. I understand you like to preserve ALL freedoms. That's ok! I'm actually on the same page with you there, to an extent. But, to me, this is a public health issue.

*Bad* Banned trans fats.

I'm with you on this. The city council is also mulling banning the use of IPODs when crossing the street and a host of other intrusive legislation. I see this point and agree.

*Bad* Proposed congestion fees- this would entail having a tracking device that bings you every time you go into certain areas of the city like Manhattan.

This is one I would like to tackle. I was ADAMANTLY opposed to this at first. When I heard it, I was outraged. However, I have since changed my opinion and I am all for it.

In line with the idea of his vision for 2030, this has come to light. The idea is to reduce emissions and to increase mass transit use. We are now faced with ANOTHER fare hike that the MTA is dangling over our heads in the next year or so. We stand a chance to have this fare hike averted and express bus service increased, due to the idea of congestion pricing. Frankly, I like the notion that I won't have to subsidize mass transit, just so some out-of-state dude in a gas guzzling SUV can illegally ride by himself in the HOV lane, clog up the bridges and tunnels because of the sheer numbers of them and make it so it takes an hour to go 20 blocks? Let me also say that my support for this would be contingent upon the increase in mass transit. This has worked in various cities around the world.

Some of the other advantages to come from this:

- More frequent service on non-peak subways
- More Effective Use of Roadways
- Eliminate government parking placard abuse
- Encourage staggered delivery hours for trucks and commerce

*Bad* Supports Ted (hic!) Kennedy's immigration bill and wants illegal immigrants protected.

This is pretty much an opinion thing. I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, we have let the problem build and government can't shovel that blame to anyone else. So, we DO have to deal with it and a certain degree of amnesty may have to be part of the solution, like it or not.

*Bad* Strong advocate of gun control.

His stand is much like my own. Now, before this fires anyone up, hear me out. He's not looking to take away your freakin' guns!!! His concern is crime, particularly the "Iron Pipeline." NYC has been a destination for illegal guns obtained in states like Virginia for years. His position is looking for a crackdown on gun sellers that either skirt the law or haphazardly sell guns to individuals that mayyyyyybe shouldn't have them (think Va. Tech)! I don't want to get into a long argument here. But, what's so terrible about nailing some bastard who skirted the law in a sting operation? What's wrong with background checks? No one's taking anything away. Other unrelated processes that goverment administers have been tightened up for various reasons. Why should this one be different? If you are all in line with the law, his proposals should not affect you in any way, shape or form.

*Bad* $3 billion dollar tax hike in 2003.”

Right now, property owners are receiving multiple rebates on their taxes. A proposal for a rebate for renters like myself is now being floated. It was not a tax and run type thing.”

“"MarkO the problem I have with any control of personal choices is that one day the control changes to "the other side". I do not want Moral Bob telling me I cannot suntan, or cannot drink alchohol (though I don't drink)"
XL

You have it ass-backwards, X.
The trans-fats thing is a ban on what can be sold as "food".
Trans-fats have been hawked as "food" and they are artificial non-food that turn out to be harmful to those who consume them.
Hydrogenated vegetable oils are really a polymer, a PLASTIC!
They are an industrial convenience and have no business being in the food chain.
Actually, its all about business getting over on consumers to the detriment of us all.

Here, I have this delicious mud pie that I want to sell you.
Don't worry about what it will do to your health, just buy the dang thing so I can make money from a sucker.

And what the hell is the "other side"??”

“These are not "freedom issues", they are fiscal good sense.

They are absence of free choice issues.”

“Treebeard you show yourself to be very well informed and I thank you for showing your side of things as well as things I did not know about yet. As I said I was examining his performance purely on the basis of personal and market liberties. Things like the congestion fees are a city matter and don't mean jack squat when it comes to national policies. Being a libertarian I value the freedom and ability of state and local governments to make their own laws and policies. My main concerns begin with constitutional law and trickle down from there in importance.

And as you intimated in your original post; there is no perfect candidate that will fill the bill in every area so we have to be able compromise some. With the president's approval rating at around 26% and congress at about 14% it is so clear that people (on the coasts and in between) are fed-the-fukc up with the disconnection and distance between our government and the people. This is why I am much more apt to have good discussions like this about a non-republican or non-democrat because there is no party line involved and it comes down to the issues alone. It really simplifies things when you take the "commie libby and "facist neo-con" labels out of the equation.”

“"Being a libertarian I value the freedom and ability of state and local governments to make their own laws and policies."

I can appreciate that and I totally agree.
I'm just not a Libertarian.

The trans-fat ban and smoking ban are city laws made by elected representatives of the people.

D.C. banned smoking in public places early this year.
It was nice to drink a slow pint at the Dubliner a couple of months ago with my wife.
There was something different and I looked around and noticed no one was smoking.
It has actually not harmed business and the experience is much nicer.
Again, a local law......democracy in action in the interest of the people.
last edited: 6/21/07 3:42:01 PM”

“I'm not the slippery slope paranoid type but if they will do it to their own city would they also pursue the same policies for a nation under their watch? This is my only concern.”

“Who is "they"??

Each locality has it's own legislative body and if said body decides to vote a ban then WTF?

I suppose that is something like parts of the south with their "wet" and "dry" counties.

In '33 the U.S. Congress lifted the nation-wide prohibition on alcohol and left it up to the state and local legislatures and they did their thing.”

“And that's how I want to keep these decisions, in the hands of state and local voters.”

“Removing trans fat is no different than removing (mostly) downer cow brain from the food supply.

Health issue.”