Sicko

“I was having insurance "difficulties" when I was first diagnosed with Hodgkins IV at George Washington University Hospital. The treatment proscribed was "aggressive chemo ASAP". They sent me across the street to George Washington University Medical Center.

I was denied treatment. Unless I could pay upfront.

Dani fought to get me into Georgetown Lombardi Cancer Center. When we explained my "difficulties" to the doctor, he said

"We'll worry about that later. Right now we need to treat you."

Not all places are soul-less #&%!$heads.

And I have a new found respect for Jesuits.

;)
last edited: 7/01/07 6:53:52 PM”

“I am not advocating denying coverage. I am not advocating for profit haelthcare ( I like my not for profit just fine). I am advocating people paying for the above and beyond costs based on their individual choices. You want to make scientifically proven deadly choices you pay a premium.

Is it your right to knowingly use a product that by its intended use will kill you or cause you to become seriously ill (smokes) and then demand and expect that others should pay? I am not talking about denying a genetic diabetic or other "involuntary" diseases. I dont by the slippery slope. But certainly you can see the difference between a knowing and deadly choice vs a genetic or hereditary issue.

Frankly some folks dont deserve transplants or deserve them far less than others. One who knowingly wrecks their body should take a back seat to a child or someone who didnt cause the issue.

Picture this your child/spouse gets a liver disease (genetic or whatever) but some drunk who wrecked theirs is on the donor list before your kid. Who should get it. The child or drunk. Those choices are real. Finite resources should be spent to maximize the benfefit.

To get back to the car ins, you setup a healthcare system with a catastrophic claim system just like those that cover the uninsured in accidents.

Think of this BM, if the 10's of billions wasnt being wasted by foolish deadly choices your care would have certainly cost less.

My dog was run over by a car at 25 mph, bruised lung,liver and spleen. $1400 total. Its cheap cause you pay for every dime yourself. But if the vet saw a pet ins policy the price would skyrocket.


Addendum: the estimated cost to the healthcare system per pack is $40. Is that fair. what about the rights of non-smokers? Wahat about the nearly 80% of us with enough sense not to kill ourselves?
Or do we simply bear the weight of those bent on slow determined suicide.
last edited: 7/01/07 7:32:22 PM”

“birch, they have found an addiction gene. They've also found that alcoholism runs in family with respect to the addiction gene. Now what?”

“I'm with you birch. Sort of. It's just that doctors can't treat people based on something subjective like "deserves".

What really burns me is someone like the mayor of pittsburgh(?) going to the head of the transplant line or David Crosby. Some little innocent person probably died b/c of transplant favoritism. Which isn't supposed to exist.

But does an ER doc not save a gunshot victim because he's a "gangbanger"?

Do you not treat addicts? What about their babies?

Once you start down the path of deciding who deserves treatment then it all goes to hell.

And I'm all for personal responsibility but name one person who is an island..................I think I've had too much to drink.

:D”

“Man, you give an alternative to the evil insurance companies charging us out the nose by advocating people take responsibility for their own actions and people cry foul.

I have come to the conclusion that some people (in general) simply are not strong enough to live free.”

“How do you take responsibility for your genes? Do you blame the person with MS?? With Sickle Cell Anemia?

I am not saying that people shouldn't live responsibly, honestly. But I was sort of playing devil's advocate and also curious as to what you believe the answer would be.”

“I haven't seen anyone here who doesn't believe that people should live responsibly.

Its denying medical care for "cause" that bothers some of us.”

“Nigel/Birch - the problem is you start giving insurance companies any license to raise premiums based on lifestyle then they will also use it to start denying people coverage or make it prohibitively expensive for those considered high-risk. Once you agree that smokers have to pay more, then why not drinkers? You're also accepting that insurance companies can determine premiums based on an individual's risk of poor health. It's a whole Pandora's Box being opened.
Basically you go down this road and you make a universal healthcare system virtually ineviatable.”

“And do you really think they'd lower premiums for the healthier??”

“And then you start in on determining health coverage based on genetic factors.”

“Survival of the fittest will someday reappear as the rule rather than the
disregarded and unmentionable truth.”

“IN THE UNITED STATES, approximately three out of every 1,000 people are HIV-positive. In the nation's capital, it's closer to 50 out of 1,000. That's a whopping 5 percent of D.C. residents: 1 in 20. Based on CIA statistics, if the District were a country, it would rank 11th in the world in HIV prevalence, between Mozambique (1 in 14) and Tanzania (1 in 23).

How did this happen?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/16/AR2005081601429.html”

“How did this happen?

Much of D.C. s population likely originated from Mozambique and Tanzania!

=)”

“Crap.  State, county and city gov't infested also.  No safe harbor.”

“It's not so much I'm for the personal responsibility thing Tango. It's more that I just hate when people run to the government for anything and everything. The more people that depend on the government the less power we have as a collective. The government is bad enough right now at the size it is. A government run healthcare system would be an absolute goatfukc.

I believe one of the things that must be looked at is not for profit healthcare centers.”

“How did this happen?

Congress refuses to wear a condom.”

“quote of the week by bacpac. Now that's funny.”

“February 17, 1971
5:26 pm - 5:53 pm
Oval Office
Conversation 450-23

John D. Ehrlichman: On the—on the health business—

President Nixon: Yeah.

Ehrlichman: —we have now narrowed down the vice president's problems on this thing to one issue and that is whether we should include these health maintenance organizations like Edgar Kaiser's Permanente thing. The vice president just cannot see it. We tried 15 ways from Friday to explain it to him and then help him to understand it. He finally says, “Well, I don't think they'll work, but if the president thinks it's a good idea, I'll support him a hundred percent.”

President Nixon: Well, what's—what's the judgment?

Ehrlichman: Well, everybody else's judgment very strongly is that we go with it.

President Nixon: All right.

Ehrlichman: And, uh, uh, he's the one holdout that we have in the whole office.

President Nixon: Say that I—I—I'd tell him I have doubts about it, but I think that it's, uh, now let me ask you, now you give me your judgment. You know I'm not to keen on any of these damn medical programs.

Ehrlichman: This, uh, let me, let me tell you how I am—

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: This—this is a—

President Nixon: I don't [unclear]—

Ehrlichman: —private enterprise one.

President Nixon: Well, that appeals to me.

Ehrlichman: Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can—the reason he can do it—I had Edgar Kaiser come in—talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because—

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: —the less care they give them, the more money they make.

President Nixon: Fine. [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: [Unclear] and the incentives run the right way.

President Nixon: Not bad.

source - President Nixon

Feb. 18, 1971

"I want America to have the finest health care in the world. And I want every American to have that care when he needs it."

Nixon in a speach regarding creating HMO's.”

“The private for-profit health care "system" that we all enjoy now is a goatfukc.

Government run health programs operate at a fraction of the overhead(profit and bureaucracy) of the current mess.”

“A-ha! So it's all Nixon's fault! I knew it!


This is not going to sit well with MarkO.”

“Sorry been working all weekend....but Just had to mention...I have checked the Constitution and NO where in there does it say we have a RIGHT to health care?

One other thing that is BROKE is the MEDIA in this country. We all know stories of them lying, fabricating stories and even destroying lives...WITH NO RETRIBUTION...I think it is time we put the MEDIA under Government control. (LOL)”

“You're right Non-Con, I love every hair on Tricky Dick's boney skull.

That transcript is a real embarrassment.”

“Ha!

Nixon's the One!”

“I”

“Crap, I tried to turn off the italics, but no go.”

“OK. I'm pretty sure, though, that level of informed beneficiaries might be dependent on location.

Which is sad b/c it's a fed program, no?

On a related subject - some places won't take DC medicaid but will take VA & MD Medicaid. Often, these places are in DC.

XL - I'm glad you, your friends and family, have never had to go through not getting treatment for a lethal condition due to lack of coverage.

I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.”

““birch, they have found an addiction gene. They've also found that alcoholism runs in family with respect to the addiction gene. Now what?”
Tango

To start, if you have a long history of alcoholism in your family and you have been found to have a genetice predisposition to alcoholism I say dont pick up the first drink.

More to the genetics. I am sure that everyone has genetic determiners. I am disposed to be overweight, both my parents are overweight/obese (my dad was a whopping 425, now a lean 330). So I run and try to eat well, I have love handles though but I still try. We have weak hearts and arteries so again, I eat well and excercise and quit smoking. The genetics dont gaurantee a disease (as I understand it) but pre dispose in most cases. So you do what you can. Throwing up your hands and saying its genetic is simply wrong.

There are people who are predisposed to be arseholes, do we say well its okay cause he is predisposed? What about sociopaths, they are presdisposed, we hold them to account.

The kid Richb cited should never had to have a bake sale or fundraiser. Thats simply wrong. There should be a safety net for such cases. I bet one could be afforded if we didnt waste 10's of billions on smokers. Thats the shame. Smokers are funnelling billions form sick kids,poor kids and every single healthcare user.

I am gonna walk away from this thread now. I dont want to argue or be a bigger prick than I have. If I missed your question or something email me. Adios”

“Thanks HPM --- I tried to tilt the whole damn thread again!”

“When obesity takes Michael Moore it will be the government's fault.”

“S. 358: Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2007

That's a great site to check on what the little criminals are up to.”

“Simply blame everthing and all on your genes.
You're addict and have lung cancer or your liver is gone - it's your genes.
You're fat - it's your genes.
You're depressed - it's your genes.
You're suicidal - it's your genes.
You abuse your kids - it's your genes.
You're a murderer - it's your genes.

Whatever #&%!$ happens in your life, it's not your responsibility, you're just the poor victim of your genes and therefor let the health insurance pay for it.

If I look at my own extended family I find all the shortcomings and failures of mankind: addicts, depression, suicide, obisity, cancer, intolerance, homosexuality, racism, abuse, even institutionalized homicide. Sweet, heh?
Considering all that, I should have a free liscence to do almost anything, because, hey hey hey, it's all in my genes. Fabulous! And make the health insurance pay for all that crap.
LMAO”

“This is pretty funny.

The guy on the thread with government funded health care is complaining the loudest about government funded health care.

Where to start?”

“LOL...but the great part is if we go to that SOCIALIST PARADISE we see how Easy life is...(ANIMAL FARM WAS RIGHT)

http://www.boston.com/news/world/latinamerica/articles/2007/07/02/living_on_cuban_food_ration_isnt_easy/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News”

“Where to start?”
violin
6:50:55 AM
7/03/07

Start with "Troll"?”

“WAHAHAHAHA....here you go

http://www.timelymedical.ca/”