Why Civilian "Assault Rifle" Ownership i s Necessar

“Gee, I think it's called "crime".

Huh, that was a tough one.”

“I think Freud would be more interested in what about this particular story touched a raw nerve in Mutt.”

““Gee, I think it's called "crime".

Huh, that was a tough one.”
Mutt
12:44:46 PM


My daughter was assaulted Friday night with her boyfrined. They unwittingly got in the middle of a "turf" battle with street gang kids. (Please, XL. Don't enlighten us with any of your stories. I don't believe them anyway. Thanks in advance!)

Thankfully, they were not seriously hurt. Four men (one with knife) had her trapped against a garage door, but she managed to get away and bang on a perosn's door. The lady was too frightened to let her in and the SOB's hit her in the back with closed fists several times. The police were pretty much useless (I am filing a complaint, but that story is long and not my point here). Luckily, they were diverted and gave up on her, urged away by some of the girl friends of the kids. Anyway, there are obviously other details, but what do the gun freaks have to offer in a case like this? anything useful? (Please, XL! I'm not kidding. NO STORIES!!!)”

“Thats has got to suck bigtime Treebeard. Its sounds like she got off fairly well considering the possibilities. I hope they are okay.

To address you question generically...
If she had the option and desire for a CCW I could see that being of some assistance. I have a few friends (some females) with CCWs. Its not for everyone though.

Other options, self defense training. Avoidence of high crime areas (dont know if that possible, I dont know the local neighborhoods.”

“she should've had a pistol in hand, ready to go.”

“wouldnt say should've.

I would say, should have the choice.”

“unwittingly got in the middle of a "turf" battle with street gang kids - treebeard

Situational awareness is key. Avoid gang land. If unavoidable, be acutely aware of surroundings. I would suggest fox labs OC spray. Or a CCW and lots of training.

Nothing in life is guaranteed. having a means to defend oneself is no guarantee that you'll actually have the chance to use it when you need to use it.”

“Man Treebeard...sorry to hear that. What city was that? i guess the other question that pops to mind is why were they in that area?
last edited: 7/09/07 1:47:31 PM”

“The area isn't the best, nor the worst I have ever seen. She has a friend that lives there. They were visiting. CCW is ridiculous for her. She despises guns, a philosophy she adopted on her own, in case you were thinking the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. The spray may be a good idea, though, Mutt.

Frankly, right now, I am so pissed at the NYPD for their response (or lack thereof)to this situation. I am going to be a statistic of civilians lodging complaints against them this year as soon as I acquire the final corroboration for my case tonight.

In a quick nutshell, these kids were attacked and no statement was taken from them. They were not offered treatment or the option of treatment for the wounds, nor were their wounds assessed in any way, shape or form. Her boyfriend was beat fairly significantly. The woman that my daughter spoke to on the phone had the audacity to question the credibility of her account of the situation instead of sending out cops to the scene. I'm livid right about now...”

“New York? WOW...man hey at least she turned out better than Kitty Genovese right?”

“"The Whimper Of Whipped Dogs." Yes, I am familiar with the story. Negative spin and generalizations about a place are easy, dude. I'm well aware of your warped perceptions of this place. Pardon me, but it's a little too irrelevant to what I'm saying to give any more attention to...”

“tree, not defending the cops...but you say this is NY and an area frequented by gangs?

Okay to start with you have to (AND I AGREE WITH YOU BEING PISSED AT THE COPS BY THE WAY) see it from their point of view. There will be NO corroborating witnesses, even IF they identify the guys who did it...they will have numerous "alibi's".
IF someone does make a supporting statement...they will "feel the wrath" of the thugs.”

“..Tree do you even HAVE a daughter?...seems I remember a story you pulled on TT about being mugged yourself...talk about peeps with stories not to be believed.....
last edited: 7/09/07 3:20:12 PM”

“Treebeard has a daughter(19) and a son(15) and a wife and mother...............a small dog and several birds.”

“F_ck their point of view!! Who is this woman to tell my daughter over the phone, after she's been attacked, that she has doubts about her story? And what does the "wrath of the thugs" have the remotest relevance to what I'm saying? The thugs have no clue who she is. Arrests apparently were not even made. They handled this like a bunch of uncaring lazy-ass, donut eating mutha phuckas! That plain enough?”

“Ah, Super Troll. You have a good memory. If I must say so myself, I had you people going hook, line and sinker!!!

Ok, you got me there! No, I have no daughter (except the one me and your wife have) :)”

“Given that you now know you can NOT expect the police to protect you, much less react AFTER the fact...

How long will it take or WHAT will it take to get you to decide to protect YOURSELVES?

Granted you are asking what could have been done in this thread, but so far you're just sniping at responses you didn't agree with before this incident...think about it now in retrospect...what COULD have happened and how do you deal with these situations in the future?

Tree, I'm a gun toter sure, not advocating guns for everyone, but one thing I see to do for future planning purposes is to reevaluate your thought processes here..just think about it okay?”

“I've been looking for mace for my wife to carry. Seems hard to find in DC.

We've walked to our new home twice from late night engagements. Took a different way each time. Both were a little nerve wracking. we take cabs or the bus now.”

“Such a childish response..I simply asked you (Granted in a roundabout way...) why we should believe you now, when you have publicly lied before?.... your comment doesn't rile me boy, my wife obviously has higher standards than that...
last edited: 7/09/07 3:31:44 PM”

“The building next door (2 story rowhouse) is currently unoccupied. Some people like to hang out in the back, though

”

“LOL...so if we use your theoretical daughter I will answer your question. I am guessing you have never worked in a "high crime area"
#1. Anyone who reports to the cops...the thugs WILL find out and they will respond.

#2. You can have a shooting with 100s of people standing around and get zip zero nada in witnesses.

#3. I am sure your theoretical daughter is clean as the driven snow. But if it is a "rough neighborhood" my question would be why is SHE down there.

But then this is all theoretical. For anyone who wants try riding for a couple of months with the police. See what it is like when you go into do your job (for which you will be paid diddly) and find you get two sides. Side one wants the WRATH OF GOD in the form of the police to come down ..when and ONLY when they are wronged. The other side would prefer to see you dead.”

“ST, I took your insinuation that I was lying as a joke and delivered a return punch, as crass as that may have been. If all you have to add is the possibility that I am some kind of liar, then don 't go there, dude! What I gave back was equal in sensitivity to what you gave my daughter. She does post on here at times and many regulars know her. I'd be willing to bet more know her than those that know XL...

That being said, I still don't think that the answer is arming the populace. Geez, with the amount of boneheads out on the loose, I'd say arming them is the last thing I'd like to see.

(Maple was playing with my Blackberry, it seems)
last edited: 7/09/07 4:19:49 PM”

“playing's fine unless it becomes a blueberry.”

“They unwittingly got in the middle of a "turf" battle with street gang kids.

I am so glad she is OK. Things like this always take us by surprise when they happen. Can I ask one question if I ask it very nicely? And I'm not making fun here but was it those damn Jets and Sharks again?”

“This is just like an old 50's shoot um up cowgirl movie.”

“And I'm not making fun here but was it those damn Jets and Sharks again?”
Nigal
6:40:53 PM

(snaps fingers in 4/4 time)

Geeeeeeeee. Officer Krupke,
We're misunderstood...

...Deep down inside us,
we're no good!

we're no good, we're no good... (and so on)”

“I have to agree with ARMING the populace...I kinda look at ARMING citizens like I do giving them the right to vote. I think both have the same deadly potential. For arming we MUST and I mean MUST have a training of sorts. In Texas you have to take classes and recert every few years.

But the biggest thing we have to do...and the NRA is a lifetime supporter of this, is PUNISH firearm violations.

You know in the 1990s when they passed the background stuff and cracked down on gun ownership there were something like 100,000 criminals caught for trying to purchase firearms (ILLEGALLY)...not one...zip zero NADA were prosecuted by the Attorney General or the Executive Branch of the government.

In England (I know this was the fact in the 1980's) use of a firearm...hell possession of a firearm in the commision of a crime was LIFE. Not in a plush place but in a black hole of a cell.”

“ For arming we MUST and I mean MUST have a training of sorts



But the biggest thing we have to do...and the NRA is a lifetime supporter of this, is PUNISH firearm violations.

oh noes they be takin mah gun!”

“How's the kimchi?”

“She despises guns, a philosophy she adopted on her own - treebeard

Nothing like a little personal violence to change one's mind about such things. Frankly people who refuse to take responsibility for their own safety and security are living in la-la land. However, your daughter is young and idealistic and probably believes the government is a great problem solver and the police will protect her. Your responsibility as a father is to disabuse her of such notions and drive home that there's this thing called "reality" which *will* intrude on your life, regardless of your opinions and lack of preparations.

I mean, would you be okay with your daughter not wearing a seatbelt if she "despises" them and never thinks she'll be in a collision? It's the same thing, M/L. At least get her some quality pepper spray, and have her practice regularly.
last edited: 7/10/07 8:10:49 AM”

“Nothing like a little personal violence to change one's mind about such things

what a load of crap. ive been mugged (well, they tried but failed, anyway). afterwards, i had no desire to buy a gun. one can take responsibility for their own safety in lots of other ways than owning a gun. one is knowing how to fight. another is avoiding the wrong places. another is being aware of what is going on around you.
last edited: 7/10/07 8:15:47 AM”

“That's why I suggested pepper spray, dumbass. Self-defense courses would be another good idea.

Jeez, try to keep up.”

“you suggested pepper spray AFTER i made my post. nice try,tho, trollette”

“I would suggest fox labs OC spray.
Mutt
1:40:01 PM
7/09/07

Like I said, try to keep up, DUMBASS!

Nice self-ownage.”

“To assume that a lack of responsibility is the cause for an incident like this is quite a jump.

Sometimes things just happen because people are in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

“Cause? What the hell are you muttering about, MarkO? The punk street gang kids were the cause. Treebeard's daughter had no control over it. That's why one should take personal responsibility for their safety - because you just might find yourself "in the wrong place at the wrong time".”

“Yep, sometimes $hit happens and the results just suck. Of course the counter argument is that if you're prepared that sometimes it gets to happen to the offendor, but not all of the time. I'm sorry for what your daughter went through TB. It had to be terrifying for her and a helpless fury as the dad.”

“excuse me for not having every single word of the insipid bark-fest that is the assault rifle thread commited to memory. ya know, i miss the days when you werent quite so shrill”

“I have to agree with ARMING the populace

Yes. Lets have anyone, say 16 and up, allowed to carry. Not just allowed, but we'll make it like a right and a need to carry. Kind of like the right to drive a car. What could go wrong?

And just like violations for driving infractions, penalties for gun violations will make crime non-existent.”

“lets go further. lets require everyone to carry”

“There is no "right" to drive a car......though one can try to gain the priviledge.”

“i say BROADSWORDS!

Thats it the huge two handed knight killing things....imagine some punk with a pocket knife coming at you then.

Additionally you would have to be in some sort of shape to handle the thing meaning.....physical fitness.”

“I believe that's a Claymore.



I know a guy in Baltimore who can make you a nice one, X.”

“"lets go further. lets require everyone to carry."

Sure thing Crash, you knucklehead.

The weapon manufacturers will have to go to three shifts and the economy will flourish.

The undertaker business will go great guns, too.”

“Claude Clay, Undertaker

"You Plug 'Em; I Plant 'Em"”

“I'll go along with the pepper spray thing, Mutt. I still believe that there are people that just should not touch guns. Just because it's second nature to you doesn't mean that those things don't freak the next person out. If someone is that skittish with a deadly weapon, how can you, in your right mind, advocate that person carrying one?”

“Maybe he's a busy body control freak who knows what's best for everyone, Tree.”

“Update on the situation:

I interviewed the family whose house my daughter went to during the melee. Trouble was brewing in that neighborhood for at least two hours prior to their arrival there. 8 or 9 calls were made to 911 by the residents in the immediate vicinity. Cop response was nil, according to these folks. By the time the kids got there about 9:30, things started to crescendo.

I did a little homework on them, though. These were apparently "Bloods wannabes". They were wearing red shirts, not typical Bllods attire. They usually wear the bandanas on the right or left side. It appears that they were basically "forming." In other words, they were not yet recognized, but need to score some points to be put in front of a council of recognized Bloods in order to be incorporated into this wonderful organization. From what I understand, they will be doing the same thing next Friday night and will continue until they create enough of a buzz in that area to be recognized. (Sometimes, I wonder what country I'm living in...sigh)

I have my daughters' boyfriends' mom's (Saten Island Task Force Police Lt) support and she advised that it would be a good idea to launch a complaint with the civilian complaint review board. She is seeking out the names of the officers working that area that night. I am getting set to make that call in a few minutes. I also have the backing of the people at the site of the incident to. A separate complaint will be lodged against the 911 operator that spoke to my daughter in the manner that she did.”

“Oh it was a 911 operator who was a twit...sorry to say but that seems to be kinda normal.

Tree...one of the problems with cops in HIGH INCIDENT zones is that they become desensitized after a while. They spend 2 hours writing up a case, the scum gets a walk in less than an hour (meaning one more cop off the street). Then you make a great case, go to court and watch the judge walk the criminal.

In Savannah they began figuring out who some of the wannabe leaders were, then you would takeem in hold em for a couple of hours and RELEASE them. Heck even have a squad car bring em home. A few hours after they got home you do a raid on a drug house. Then a week later you see the original suspect, you jump out of the car, walk over slap him on the back and hand him a couple of $20's. (LOL) he would be dead in a week.”

“Maybe stink bombs would make a good defensive weapon against punks like that.

Good luck, man.”