Why Civilian "Assault Rifle" Ownership i s Necessar

“Damn I sounded just like XL and Stovey there, didn't I?”

“maybe the reason that "swimming pools are not on the liberal left's agenda" is that swimming pools have a purpose beyond killing/maiming another living being”

“Damn I sounded just like XL and Stovey there, didn't I?”

actually, you sounded a lot like you half the time”

“Well whatever their purpose crash they are far more dangerous than my rifles. They kill a truckload more kids.”

“You can have my swimming pool when you unwrap my dead, pruney fingers from off the top rail...”

“well, they may kill more kids than YOUR rifles, because i have no doubt youre a responsible gun-owner. anyways, im not advocating banning guns, just thought it was a crappy analogy, unless you can come up with some hard stats

im with whoever said gun-owners should be required to pass a safety test before owning a gun. very few people complain about having a drivers license to drive (and yes some people still drive illegally, but does anybody really think that we should do away with licensing?), so why shouldnt we require gun-owners to show competence?”

“Come on Birch - that's just a typical NRA reaction. Yeah pools are dangerous - watch your kids by them.

You'll be coming out with the chestnut about banning cars next.

Just be realistic: "Yes I do put my family at risk when I have guns in my house, but given the precautions I take, I deem the risk of a home invasion to be greater threat to me an my family. The protection is worth the risk.”

“here ya go crash, an excerpt...Standard summer companions in our desert climate, swimming pools can be deadlier for children than guns. A child is 100 times more likely to die in a swimming accident than in gunplay, writes Steven D. Levitt, University of Chicago economics professor and best-selling author.
from ...http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1421386/posts

That took 20sec on Google, loads abound.



"Yes I do put my family at risk when I have guns in my house, but given the precautions I take, I deem the risk of a home invasion to be greater threat to me an my family. The protection is worth the risk.”
Y2

BULLCRAP Y2. I dont lock my firearms from my child. My daughter knows and has been taught firearm safety from age 3. She understands that they are NOT toys that she is NEVER to touch one without my permission and supervision and to tell an adult and leave any other time a firearm is present.Everytime she sees me going to the range or cleaning a weapon we go through the drill. I was taught this (no gun safe in my home) my father was taught this (no gunsafe) his father etc etc...

I secure my firearms because I will be sued blind if my weapon is used in the commision of a crime. Period.

As to exposing my family to risk, my daughter rides in a car (most damn dangerous you can do) flies, rides a bike in a busy suburban area, and plays on a 14ft treehouse. Firearms arent even a concern.

I am not some fluke , I would bet that the far majority of firearms owners treat their weapons with due respect. Please Y2 for goodness sake stop mischaracterising something you dont know crap about. The vast majority of folks I know are firearm owners. Not one has killed someone intentionally or by accident, they are safe as most of us are.

I would hope that if your dad had a firearm he would have enough damn sense than to shoot his own drunk son. Do you think that at the first crack or creak we are readying a weapon. Please, thats nonsense.

Question for you Y2 any legal firearm owner posed a risk to you or threatened you?”

“birch, do you have anything from a non-biased source?”

“You say bullcrap - but you're not even really disagreeing with me.
You just see the risk of having a gun in the house to be negligible compared to other risks she'll face in growing up.
That's fair enough.

It's your decision, but to deem a gun not worthy or locking from a three-year-old doesn't strike me as the smartest of things. In my view a three-year-old has little concept of death or serious injury or serious consequences. If you've child-proofed your kitchen knife drawer, or the chemicals under the sink, then you should at least do the same for your gun. I don't think 'Daddy told me not to," is enough.

But it's your decision to do as you see fit and you know your child best.

I think someone in the UK made a good comparison. In the US guns are often viewed in the same way as a chainsaw might be. As a tool with legitimate uses, but one that can be dangerous if not used with respect. I personally wouldn't let a three-year-old anywhere near a chainsaw. (well he/she would probably need to be a little older for a chainsaw to be a problem - but hopefully you get the point).

And my father responded the way he did because there was someone actually entering the house and moving around (loudly). If you didn't get your gun when you wake suddenly and hear someone banging around in the hallway of your home - then there's little point in having a gun for defending your home is there? Or would you go work out who it is, ask them to hold on and then go fetch it?

I guess you picture the situation as your dogs waking you first, getting a chance to see who is coming in, making a decision. Or is it some other way?

I do have to say though your condescending attitude that my father would have to be dumb for there to be a problem seems to me to show that you think yourself too smart or well-prepared for an accident or misjudgment to happen. Well you're probably right - the stats are on your side. He served in the Army too, Parachute Regiment - though once he woke with someone in the hallway of his home he'd have grabbed whatever he could to defend his family and his home.


I'm not mis characterizing anything. I've already said earlier in the thread that most gun owners are responsible, and in most situations and places pose little threat to others.

But even if I was trying to go down this route - the argument would be that every gun out of the Glock or Smith & Weston door starts off legally, what goes wrong after that? The legal side of the multi-billion dollar gun industry feeds the illegal side, and indeed makes money from it.

See - this is the argument taking it's classic track, and the way the pro-gun lobby like to take it. "They want to take your guns away," - that way it's easy to throw up a few catch phrases. Outlaws have guns, why don't we ban cars, and even, pools are more dangerous.

And no, i've never been threatened by a legal gun owner - but that misses the point entirely. I go back to the point that every gun starts life as a legal weapon.

I just think there needs to be some realism on the issue, and I rarely see it exhibited by anyone on the pro-gun lobby side of things.They seem too caught up in enjoying their guns to accept there are some downsides to them personally and to the country as a whole.”

“when pools are outlawed, only outlaws will have pools”

“This also goes back to not being able to see beyond your own environment. Guns are involved in a lot of violent crimes. Just because your friends are responsible gun owners doesn't mean there aren't huge issues with it in other towns, cities and places. These are not separate issues - they are connected. The freedom you have to do this comes at a cost to some of the people in some of the crappier parts of the country.

Having said all this, I can see why a lot of people want a gun to defend themselves and their home. Like I said before, I've thought about it myself.
My grandfather lived in a remote part of Wales, and at least in his later years slept with a gun in the closet by the door and shells in his bedside drawer.
last edited: 7/12/07 11:23:06 PM”

“If I could use my guns , I detest, to shoot holes in my pool ,I detest even more, I would really be happy having neither. The guns are for protection and are locked in a safe and the pool hardly ever gets used and of course noboby takes care of it. I have a 32ounce rigging axe with leash under my bed, guns nonsense.”

“That took 20sec on Google

Should have saved the 20 seconds on something less futile dude. lol!”

“I drop the kids at the pool every morning.”

“CB, I didnt know that Steven Levitt an economics prof was bias. Please show his bias. The source free republic may be bias but they are who I am citing, they just came up as a reference to Levitt.

Y2, I will address your points after work.”

“a quick scan of "the free republic" shows them to be biased as hell, and so calls into question anyone that they cite, sorta like can you really trust anyone that a creationist cites?

btw, im not trying to argue with you. just playing devils advocate. youre one of the most level-headed persons i know. i trust your judgement to do the most responsible thing”

“July 20, 2006

Questions remain after shooting death of boy

BY VINCENT TODARO
Staff Writer

EAST BRUNSWICK - Last month's shooting death of a 12-year-old boy was tragic for family and friends of the involved parties, but it also left the community wondering how and why it happened.

The June 26 death of Alexander Khoudiakov sent shockwaves through the community, particularly since the alleged shooter was his 11-year-old friend. The incident occurred at the friend's condominium on Cypress Lane.

Last week, the Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office brought charges including aggravated manslaughter against the 11-year-old, identified only as "MG," and charged his father and grandmother with child endangerment for failure to secure firearms from children. Authorities reportedly confiscated 98 guns from the house and more than 1,600 rounds of ammunition.

Residents told the Sentinel there's no way an adult should have left a loaded gun in a place that could be accessed by a child.

Walter Decker, a retired state police captain, called the incident "a tragedy" and said the gun "should have been under lock and key."

MG is accused of firing the shot from a .38-caliber revolver, though authorities said the boy did not know it was loaded. The boy's father, Michael Guerriero, 46, was at work at the time of the shooting. The shooter's grandmother, Josephine Guerriero, 72, was home at the time. The shooting occurred in one of the bedrooms in the home.

In addition to the manslaughter charge, MG faces an aggravated assault charge and a hindering charge for allegedly stating that the gun was fired accidentally.

If convicted, the boy could face up to four years in a juvenile detention center, while the father and grandmother would face a maximum of 17 years in prison and a $176,000 fine.

Decker said many people make the mistake of thinking the gun they're in possession of is not loaded. He said he knows of many people, including police officers in the past, who thought their gun was empty and accidentally shot themselves when they went to clean the weapon.

Township Council President Nanny Pinkin agreed the guns should have been locked up, away from the reach of children.

Pinkin, who said she is opposed to gun possession in the first place, said the whole incident should never have happened.

As for the charge against the boy, she said, "11 years old is 11 years old," and that the adults need to be held responsible for the boy's actions.

Lawrence Bitterman, a New Brunswick attorney representing the alleged shooter, has declined to comment to the Sentinel, but told The Star-Ledger that the shooting was an accident altogether. He said the gun was fired inadvertently during horseplay between the boys.

"There was no intention on [his client's] part to pull the trigger at all," Bitterman told the newspaper. "The victim reached out for the gun," causing the trigger to be pulled accidentally.

Authorities said, however, that the crime scene and forensic evidence suggested that the boy pointed the gun at Alexander's face and pulled the trigger, although he was under the impression the gun was not loaded.

Township resident and local attorney Daniel Brown said he would not want to be the one responsible for determining the charges. On the one hand, the parent of any child killed would want the perpetrator to be punished severely. On the flip side, no amount of jail time will bring the deceased child back, he said.

He said adults do have a responsibility to keep guns away from the reach of children.

"It was an obscene amount of ammunition," he said of the reported 98 firearms in the house. "It almost sounded like a military stockpile. [The adults] can't turn around and be surprised."

Decker said the charges against the boy seem harsh, but he would not be surprised to see a plea bargain result if MG is indicted. The harsher charges give the Prosecutor's Office some leeway in negotiating such an agreement with the defense, he said.

http://ebs.gmnews.com/news/2006/0720/Front_page/057.html”

“LOL...the SAFE KIDS campaign a couple of years ago was to MANDATE retrofitting spas/hottubs/pools with 4 ft fences, special drains, and alarm systems...apparently a CERTAIN Republican Big wig's ..(now get this) EX DAUGHTER IN LAW had gone to a party with her rug rats, the rug rat got stuck on the drain at the bottom of the hot tub and drowned.
She gave this heart rending statement about desperately trying to pull the girl off the drain...

My question on the incident was:

1. Who was watching your daughter?
2. Did you ever think of putting your arm between your daughter and the drain so as to break the suction?
3. How far do you think this would if you name was Schmeckheimer or something?



Hey gang...here is a neat term...PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

So we go and get guns banned, then one of the whiney little libbies will lose a kid in a driving crash...so we will eventually have a "Professional Drivers only" requirement or something....JEEZE”

“Professional Drivers only"

we call them "licensed drivers" where im from”

“No I am talking about CDL type drivers...you know if you compare a Gun Permit to a "L.E.O" (Public Safety) lets compare a Driver's License to a Chauffer/CDL...”

“so, are you saying you dont think gunowners should have to pass some sort of safety test?”

“Actually the swimming pool analogy is not bad.

If there is no pool in my yard, then no one can drown in my yard. There is no potential for drowning.
Of course someone could fill a bucket and stick their head in it.

The same goes for weapons. There are no weapons in my house, no one can be injured by weapons that don't exist.
That's PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

I believe my decision to rid my home of weapons was a good one. The kid in question, friend of son #2, was lucky to live to be 21.
He was the one who started quite a few fires in my yard, harmless fires but still an indication that "that boy ain't right".
During this kid's mid to late teen years he drifted away from my son and the other friends and reportedly used just about any and all substances including heroine.
He was a "go-to-hell" kind of kid with deep problems it turns out.....not my kid, not my problem.
Again.............PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

I'm sure that Birch and Sass are not dangerous people......straight up, right on and doing good works.
Please tell me you don't have 98 fire arms!

I'm not one of those fantasy "typical liberals" who hates or fears weapons or what ever some jackass says I am...........I am ME.
I have had quite a bit of experience with very serious weapons and I was proficient with them. Now I choose to live weapon-free.
It would be nice if nobody had any, but reality is quite different and we must deal with that.”

“baby jesus wants you to have a gun, marko”

“What's his email, Crash?

I'll tell 'im a thing or two.”

“you dont want to make baby jesus cry, do you, marko?”

“But would MARKO move to a neighborhood that had at the entrance "WEAPON FREE NEIGHBORHOOD" (LOL)?

And Crash...I think I have made the comment before that I totally support the Texas plan for Gun Ownership..including Mandatory Gun training, and recertification every few years.”

“oh yea thats right that was you. i remember being surprised at you supporting it, as you dont like da gubmint tellin you what you can and cannot do

xl and i are in agreement about this. who woulda thunk it?
last edited: 7/13/07 8:41:23 AM”

“"But would MARKO move to a neighborhood that had at the entrance "WEAPON FREE NEIGHBORHOOD" (LOL)?"
XL

No, I would not.
Why are you still trying to paint me as one of your "fantasy liberals".
"WEAPON FREE NEIHBORHOOD" is not an issue for me or anyone else I know nor have I ever heard of such a thing.

XL, would you move to a WHITES ONLY NEIGHBORHOOD.....NO BLACKS, JEWS OR MEDITERANEANS???

There was a Chesapeake Bay beach near Annapolis, Maryland that had a sign like that up until the early sixties.

Hey, I'm just askin'.”

“No lets see...my neighborhood is appropriately segregated...we have the requisite number of blacks, hispanics, gays and (then a couple of my neighbors are blithering idiots so even YOUR group is represented) (LOL).....Please show me anything that would indicate I would be infavor of segregation or discrimination?

I can show you slews of stuff where you want to push "disarmament" and the ANTI gun ownership on me....I am guessing you just peed your double polyester pants when I nailed you with that question on the WEAPON free Neighborhood.

LOL Always a great line for libbies..."WOULD YOU PUT A SIGN IN YOUR FRONT YARD THAT SAID,"This house has no weapons."”

“"WEAPON FREE NEIHBORHOOD" is not an issue for me or anyone else I know nor have I ever heard of such a thing. - MarkO

Not so fast, stoner - people expressing fear of armed people running amok has been a common theme in this thread.”

“"I can show you slews of stuff where you want to push "disarmament" and the ANTI gun ownership on me....I am guessing you just peed your double polyester pants when I nailed you with that question on the WEAPON free Neighborhood."

Are you sniffin' glue?

There's even a dipschit in your neighborhood.

Hey fantasy boy, there is nothing that I want too push on you or anyone else.

I would like to push you away from me, you are like an ankle-biter.
Where's my HALT spray???
”

“Not so fast, stoner - people expressing fear of armed people running amok has been a common theme in this thread.”
Mutt

Not so fast, glue-sniffer. That ain't "common" with me.
I am not afraid of weapons or people running amok or people in general.
Paranoid and inadquate punks like you do give me pause, though.......pause to wonder what went wrong with the genetic experiment.

Why are guys like you and XLax so fearful of the world that you FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL the need to be armed.
Can't handle yourself in the real world?
Got 98 weapons and 1,600 rounds..........or more?
last edited: 7/13/07 9:20:09 AM”

“you are like an ankle-biter - MarkO

Ha, that's rich coming from the biggest "me too" on Trailtalk.”

“...and I walked on down the hall..”

“the Lizard King strikes from afar.”

“There's a killer on the road...............in Augusta??”

“We definitely get our share of kooks.”

“See - this is the argument taking it's classic track, and the way the pro-gun lobby like to take it. "They want to take your guns away," - that way it's easy to throw up a few catch phrases. Outlaws have guns, why don't we ban cars, and even, pools are more dangerous.
Y2
11:03:09 PM
7/12/07

Hey gang...here is a neat term...PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
MANDATE retrofitting spas/hottubs/pools
So we go and get guns banned, then one of the whiney little libbies will lose a kid in a driving crash...so we will eventually have a "Professional Drivers only" requirement or something....JEEZE”
XL400236
7:41:50 AM
7/13/07

You couldn't really be much more predictable XL.”

“The second amendment argument against gun control is like the biggest red herring of ever. It implies a right to bear arms, not a right to bear any arms. And further, since when is a right to bear arms the equivalent of a license to kill? Funny how no one seems to want to stockpile unexploded cluster bombs in fear of being assaulted with more superior weapons. Fact of the matter is that there are weapons, including automatic and semi-automatic firearms, which were designed specifically to kill people, that are far too dangerous for large amounts of people to be carrying around, especially if it's possible to conceal it.

If you want to arm yourself, that's fine. But at least do so in a way that doesn't make the whole neighborhood uncomfortable. I have yet to hear an intelligent argument against the banning of automatic and semi-automatic firearms for civilian use.”

“I have yet to hear an intelligent argument against the banning of automatic and semi-automatic firearms for civilian use. - phantomSoul

And I doubt you ever will, with your fingers in your ears shouting "can't hear you". You reason with your emotions - that much is plainly obvious. As such, it's impossible for add anything substantive to the discussion.

Some of the other anti-rights people are at least using logic. When you reach intellectual maturity, then you can talk with the adults.”

“Georgie....you go dude...i'm with ya on this 1000% percent....its totally absurd that the public has access to anything other than a hunting gun and that should be locked up in a centralized location when not in use. This whole scene is a joke. Right to bear arms...what? are we in war with some redcoats or something?”

“





last edited: 7/13/07 12:47:43 PM”

“With more guns, you could rob the auto parts store that those three guys own?”

“UM Phantom...all tools can be used as a WEAPON to kill people. An individual approaching within 10 feet with a knife or other sharp object meets the qualification for Use of Lethal Force.

As for stockpiling cluster bombs....how many do we need to be considered a "stockpile" I tell you what those suckers really take the fire out of the squirrels in the trees. (LOL)

IMHO there should be nothing I or the government can do to you about right to posess firearms in your OWN HOME. NOW...to carry concealed I am a BIG fan of At least a few days of training in laws, use, and shooting skills. With Recertifications necessary every few years.

The term well regulated milita needs to be explored. There are times where common citizens are deputized. So there really needs to be no "on going training" in fact it was something that the Founding Fathers feared.
last edited: 7/13/07 1:59:15 PM”

“MarkO is threatening people with his deodorant?”

“And I doubt you ever will, with your fingers in your ears shouting "can't hear you". You reason with your emotions - that much is plainly obvious. As such, it's impossible for add anything substantive to the discussion.

Some of the other anti-rights people are at least using logic. When you reach intellectual maturity, then you can talk with the adults.”
Mutt
12:30:03 PM
7/13/07

So Mutt - you initial post to this thread suggests you need an assault weapon in case ten armed teenqagers attack you and make you sleep with your mom is hardly a strong argument, especially seeing they tricked their way into the house.”