PA Pine Creek Pedal

“Anybody crashing with me the night before? It's an hour north of Jersey Shore”

“Our plan currently is leave from home that morning. We are about an hour away so it really wouldn't change anything. My wife likes her own bed. go figure.”

“That's good, actually something has come up so I won't be able to make it up north at all this weekend. I'm truly sorry, especially as I could use the exercise.”

“I'm sorry to hear that.”

“Lost Soul, Nogranola...

let me know if your plans have changed. They are forecasting isolated T-storms for Sunday. It is still a bit early to tell but the forecasting map suggests there will be rain over most, if not all the route but the precip is 30% which is not bad.

Keep me posted.”

“I'm out. Sorry, but I'm just not feeling up to it this weekend.”

“I gotta bail too. I'm having car trouble (need to replace the master cylinder) so I probably won't be able to get up that way until later Sunday.”

“The weather is looking increasing bad. Started out possible rain now it is almost certain. But you know what.... That's okay because my daughter is dancing in church on Sunday and my wife has never managed to be there to watch when she has done this before. So now flamingo can go and watch and that's a good thing. There will be other times. No sweat and thanks for the heads up.

Lost soul I hope you are feeling better soon. Nogranola... have fun with the car.”

“Any thought of rescheduling?

I've also had a notion that a rail-trail ride from Meyersdale PA to Cumberland MD would be a fun fall outing. Starts out on an uphill then it's a loong downhill. Can't do it too early in the year or too late because the big tunnel closes to prevent ice damage.”

“I would love to reschedule. Today was wicked hot and humid so it may be a good thing we didn't try. The rest of September is possible although next week my wife would not be able to drive sag. October looks doable but again my wife will be tied up one weekend and the Masten trip is the last weekend.

October 6/7 would have possibilities. But once again, no sag wagon with my wife. That is not an insurmountable problem. Oct 13/14 has a couple of local hikes scheduled which I would be kind of sorry to compete with, but it could be done. (Trip to Ithaca nd the West Rim Trail.)

Sept 22/23 or 29/30 would also be possible.

What say you? Colors would be pretty end of Sept or early Oct.”

“Sept. is out for me. Might be around Tioga Co. Oct 6-8 but unsure who else might be with me. I suppose the same early start on Oct 7 might be a possibility.

I was also eyeing the Ithaca trip especially since it looks like I might have to go up thereabouts anyway around then. Oct 20-21 probably would have leaves turning in Meyersdale but also crowds, that could start to get cold up north.”

“Oops, can't do 10/21, spoken for here.”

“Rev, I know you're out there, thoughts on rescheduling?”

“Haven't found a good weekend to do it.

Make a suggestion and we'll see what flies.”

“Oct 7?”

“Oct 6 would be better for me. I would have a car that day. The next weekend is the BFT in one day thing if that is still going on. I said I would do support work for that. Haven't had an update on that tho.

The next weekend I have a conference that I am directing so that is not going to work. Unless of course no one comes to the conference. hehehe The following weekend is Masten.

So we are into November which is still potentially possible with good weather.”

“Guess we could try Oct 6 as a maybe.

How about new north end up Marsh Creek (opened Sept 12 per what I read) to Rattlesnake Rocks to cut down need for sag?”

“We really don't need a sag to do 60 miles. I used to do that much without just the saddlepack for carrying stuff.

Are you suggesting just doing the Canyon portion? I am not familiar with the Marsh Creek end. Is that Ansonia Junction?”

“The marsh and the canyon. Not Ansonia Junction, but probably a good 10 mi NE. Wellsboro Junction is where 6 and 287 split on the north end of Wellsboro and where you get on the Tioga Central tourist train. See http://www.tiogapublishing.com/articles/2007/09/14/news/news04.txt and page 2 of http://www.tiaudubon.org/News/Raven40-2.pdf”

“Sounds like a good ride. I need to check some things with the wife. But it is a good maybe.”

“The 6th would work for me. My wife is otherwise occupied, but I could have the car. As long as life doesn't get in the way.”

“Wow, I just happened to check out this post and see that you are planning a bike trip the same weekend I was planning one. Limeygal and I were thinking of a bike trip that weekend. I have not ridden the Pine Creek trail. I have done the DC to PGH, though. We would have enough people for an easy shuttle of bikes and gear. I was hoping to do about 40 and 20 (Sat-Sun) to finish the trail. I was planning to drive up on the 5th after work and camp off of the MST(Bonnel Flats). My internet at home is not up yet, so don't be suprised if you don't see my posts too often. Pete - I'll be seeing you this weekend on the MST, so we can chat.”

“Bonnell Flats needs a permit to camp there, as do all the campgrounds along the trail. There are only a few camping areas south of Rattlesnake Rock. There is an area just north of Rattlesnake, Black Walnut Bottom and Bonnell Flats. Black Walnut Bottom is about half way down the whole trail. It needs a permit. If you can camp there Friday night you would be able to leave your set up there for Saturday night assuming you can get a permit for both nights.

Bonnell Flats is only about 7 miles from the southern terminus. If you are going from the north to there you might as well finish it.

Going from the South to north, Jersey Shore to Rattlesnake Rock would be roughly 40 miles. With the remaining mileage through the Canyon and marsh. But then you carry all your camping gear if that's your plan.

We can join these two efforts if you want. I am not sure what MST trip you are referring to. But I am sure we can figure something out.”

“The trip page has been updated to reflect new planning.”

“I'd most likely go along with the group's plan. Are you shuttling cars and then carrying your gear, or are you leap frogging vehicles and cycling with "day gear"? I am outfitted for touring so I can carry all of my stuff.”

“My plan was to drive to the parking area near Bonnell Flats Fri night (or near Colton Point at the other end). Then we would shuttle cars Sat AM and ride 40 miles the first day and 20 miles on the second day. To do that we would need 2 cars or hire a shuttle for Sat AM. I was thinking of riding from South to North, stopping at Hoffman Campground Saturday and finishing in Ansonia on Sunday. I hadn't applied for the permits yet. I just moved and came back from a 2 week trip in Colorado, so my trip planning is off. The MST trip is posted on the noehbackpackingclub.com site.”

“Like the MST, the Pine Creek Trail has been recently extended northward and I was poking to see if we could do that part then the roadless Canyon section and Rev said maybe on Sat. We were thinking of riding north to south which is downhill.”

“The White Tail Access area is about 5 miles from Bonnel Flats. It is a very large lot. The Ramsey Access point is about a mile north of Bonnell Flats but very small and more open to the road.

I could have transportation Friday evening but not for the whole weekend. I could meet you Friday night. If we shuttle the cars then I would not have a car for the rest of the weekend. If I stay more than one day (Sat) I do not have transportation on Sunday as my wife has to work. I would need to get back to Jersey Shore or farther south to get picked up after 6:00 pm on Sunday.

ki0eh could then join us for a ride north through the canyon on the 7 as he originally suggested. That would combine both trips. Sounds good to me.

If you wish I could contact the Forest Service and request camping permits for Bonnell Flats and Hoffman. We could share a site as there can be more than one tent /per site. Or if you want to take care of those details that would be fine.

I will not be on the MST trip this weekend.

Let me know if this works for you.”

“I'll talk to Pete about it this weekend. I am in for sure, as I have been wanting to ride that trail for some time now. I am open to the idea of riding North to South (downhill), and we could drop you off in Jersey Shore on Sunday too. If we would do a N-S ride then I would want to spot the southern car on Friday night and get dropped off at the northern end. Are you using a car or truck? If we can get dropped off at the northern end then we can leave our car at the southern end (can carry 3 bikes). I just don't know where it would be good to stop on Saturday if we went N-S. If you have an idea let me know. I am leaving soon for field work and then will backpack, but I will be in touch on Monday. Have a good weekend. We can take care of permits early next week once we know our itinerary (hopefully).”

“You guys can work this out and let me know. I have a very small Chevy Metro. But it will not be available for the weekend because my wife needs it to work on Sunday. So we can drive up Friday night but the she will have to leave with the car.

I can carry three bikes on the car.”

“I did talk to Pat, I'm now a bit iffy for the 10/6 weekend so I think the best thing to do is to work something out between Pat and Rev and if I can join you guys for part of it, fine.

Also scouted the new north end of the rail trail. From the jct of 6 and 287, take 287 north, then turn left on first Twp road, Marsh Creek Road, then turn left again at 1st opportunity, pass a couple of houses with "no parking" signs in front of them, then parking is at the end of the 2nd road. All this does is circle a farmer's field but there are no signs up (at least not yet) telling you what to do.”

“I called Big Pine OUtfitters about their shuttle service but have not gotten a reply yet. I thought if we left our car at the southern end we could catch a shuttle to the northern end that Sat AM.

I had thought to price out the shuttle service because we would have bikes (and my BOB trailer) which may be too much for your metro. (with 4 adults). I am trying to avoid an extra car and having to drive back north to get it when we are done.

I had thought to camp at Bonnel Flats Fri night and then Black Walnut Bottom on Sat night (coming in from the north).”

“http://www.pinecrk.com/bikerate/bikerate.html

If I remember correctly Jersey Shore Shuttle is around $100/person. I can not afford to even split that if it is a base charge for more than one person. I know it has always been beyond my budget. My situation has changed somewhat as the commitment my wife had on Saturday has been canceled. But she still has to work on Sunday so she still needs the car.

Camping at the North end Friday night would simplify things in that we could meet in the north end friday, drop the gear off shuttle the car down to the south. Then we could drive back to the gear. We could ride to the trail head and end up in the south. But I am really not familiar with places to camp near ansonia, particularly free places. Asaph has some possibilities. But I haven't really sat dawn and worked out what they would look like.”

“I guess we could do that, but it means that there is a heck of a lot of driving to shuttle the gear. Did you call Pine Creek to get the $100 rate? I wonder if it is $100 per group? If it is per-person, it is ridiculous. I can call.

I like your idea about leaving the gear to go shuttle cars. If your wife is willing to drive us then she could leave with the car after we get back to the north end.

You can get a walk in tent site at Colton Point. They used to be free. If we rode our bikes from Colton Point we would go down a mile long hill (or more) in the AM and then be riding to Wellsboro and back again to cover the new section of trail. Or we could just leave Colton Point and head south on the older section of rail trail.”

“This is the closest campground to the new north end, I was at a dinner here and it looked like a nice place. Of course maybe Rev should make the call... :) http://www.histhousandhills.org/”

“HTH is a very nice facility for group cabin camping like youth groups and so on. I am not aware of individual tents sites being available. I have been there many times when I served in Tioga county. Their cabins are not too bad cost wise but I think a camp site at the state parks would probably be cheaper if we had to pay for a site.

As far as making desicions... I really don't feel like I have to hold that role tightly. I am fairly flexible as long as it doesn't throw my budget into disruption. And anyway.. this is as much patsquatches trip as mine if not more so.”

“OK. We 3 are being picked up at the Jersey Shore Parking Lot at 8 AM on Ocotber 6th. I am taking care of the shuttle, so don't worry about it. We'll leave a car at the Jersey Shore Lot and finish there on Sunday. Rev, I'm sure we can fit you and your stuff in there if you need a ride home.

I told the outfitter that I would call that Wednesday if the weather looks like tornadoes or something.

So.... heading from the norhtern end, where do you want to camp? I was going to get a permit for Bonnell Flats for Limeygal and I for Fri Night becasue we'll be heading there after work, but we would need something for Saturday south of Slate Run.”

“Include me in the permit for Bonnell Flats.
The only option going south after Rattlesnake Rock is Black Walnut Bottom or Bonnell Flats. So it seems to be pretty clear cut to me.

I'm sure we can fit you and your stuff in there if you need a ride home.

If by that you mean home to my house I would gladly accept as long as it does not take you way out of your way. I live roughly at the intersection of I-80 and Rt. 15. It takes me about 45 minutes to get to Jersey Shore from my house.”

“The Tiadaghton District office folks are away at training today, so I will call again tomorrow about permits for Bonnell Flats and Black Walnut Bottom.

I'm in pretty good with the owner of the car I am volunteering, and I'm confidnet that I can sweeten the deal enough to get her to take you to your home on Sunday. We would jsut hop on I-80 at Route 15 and head west...”

“Sounds like a done deal to me..... thanks for the legwork...”

“No problem. And Big Pine Outfitters called back. Their rate is 40% cheaper if we met them in Waterville. To me, that translates into huge blueberry pancakes at the Waterville Hotel. We are to meet the outfitter at 9 AM.

So I can drop the car at Jersey Shore and ride quick back to waterville, or we can leave the car at Ramsey parking area. Sure, it complicates things, but I've never been accused of keeping it simple.”

“Cheaper than Pine Creek Outfitters.”

“Ramsey is a very small parking lot and exposed tothe main road.. White Tail access is a larger lot and not as exposed, and only 2.8 miles from the Jersey Shore which is also an industrial urban type lot. I am not sure I would leave my car there over night with peace of mind.

White tail to Bonnelle flats is about 5 miles.

Bonnel flats to Watervile is about 5-6 miles.

Park at White Tail. Ride to Bonnell Flats Friday night. Up early on Saturday, ride to Big Pine Outfitters. Shuttle to northern trail head, ride down to White Tail. If you really truly honest regret not getting the 2.8 miles to Jersey shore, (A huge snore in my book) grab it quick and come back.

Sounds fairly reasonable to me.

I know where Big Pine is although I can't give you mileage or terrain from Waterville trail access. It's not far. I would guess 4 miles tops. (way tops)


last edited: 9/26/07 3:26:48 PM”

“Put a dunce cap on me and sit me in the corner.

Big Pine Outfitters abuts the trail. Or very close it. We would ride right past it with my route above. No point in back tracking....
there is probably even a hole in the fencing at that point.”

“I never thought of parking Fri night and riding to Bonnell Flats. I'm not embarassed to admit that good portions of my brain don't function anymore. Good thing we are doing this together. And I am not worried about the Jersey Shore 2.8 miles. I drove past White Tail on the way home this past Sunday, so I definitely know where that is.

The waterville hotel opens at 8 AM on Saturday, so I can get my pancake fix in plenty of time to make it to the outfitters by 9 AM for our ride north. Man I am starting to really look forward to this one. The leaves are changing already, so we might be there at just the right time to see some awesome colors too!!”

“I would assume there is an opportunity for others to take part in this ride if they want in. You would obviously need a count for the shuttle ahead of time as well as their contribution to the cost. Plus the permits would need to reflect the group numbers or they could obtain their own permits. Is all this correct? In fact if w get others maybe we could do without the shuttle entirely?

The point is.. this is not a private trip.”

“Sure. I know that this trip is not a private trip. This'n here site is a commnuity thang. (That's a new word I expect to get credit for!!)

We currently have permits for Site 8 at Bonnell and Site 7 at Walnut Bottom. There were 2 sites left for Bonnell Flats and 7 sites left at Walnut Bottom when I called.

We are meeting our shuttle at Big Pine Outfitters in Waterveille, so anyone who wants to jump in would just have to get on the shuttle or we woudl re-arrange cars. I was paying for the shuttle to avoid driving back north again when we are done. So that is my preference.”

“This thread has received 940+ views. Surely these are not just you and me. :?) I was re-extending an invitation to those who might be thinking "sounds like fun" but didn't want to horn in. Strap your tent and sleep system to the rear rack of the bike. Put your food in a small knapsack, I will have a stove so there will that to share if Patsquatch doesn't also have one. You don't need the fancy schmancy BOB trailers and panniers that some of us sport. (Don't use your full trail pack as it will over balance you.) This is not a riding marathon. Come on......”

“I just looked at this a couple of times and am still confused. You're riding when, from where to where, now?”

“Fri PM we leave a car at White Tail parking area (I saw it but don't know for sure what the name was). It is within 2.8 miles north of Jersey Shore. Ride Friday night via headlamp and headlight (yep) to Bonnell Flats. Camp at Bonnell Flats.

Sat AM ride about 5 miles to Waterville Hotel for best pancakes in area (8 AM). Then ride another quarter mile or so to Big Pine Outfitters for shuttle. Ride in shuttle to northern terminis near Wellsboro. Then ride south to Black Walnut Bottom. Camp.

Sunday complete ride from BWB to vehicle at White Tail lot. Ransom off the Rev to first person with cash or good gear.

Questions?”