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Apratheid Israel Annex Thread

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You amaze me SH. According to you,every post,cut and paste or news report that varies from your opinion is from the Zionist Occupied Government,controled mass media;therefore it`s laughable.

I guess the following quotes from Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein must be a Zionist conspiracy. Here's what he said:


The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

I guess we must of been mistaken when we thought he represented the Palestinian people.


You proclaim rage when Israeli soldiers,kill innocent people in their raids.You post threads where the Terrorists groups shout and scream at the death of their children under the barbaric hand of the IDF.YeT these are the same terrorist groups that brainwash their children into becoming human bombs,who put gun emplacements on hospital roofs and move their operations into schools,in other words use the innocent as human shields.

They are not and never wil be worthy of any form of respect,they are the cause of innocent blood shed and the continued escalation of misery.

If these cowards ever truly wanted peace for their people,they would put down their weapons and sit down with Israel,but that of course is not the way of cowards is it ??

These groups are the Palestinian peoples,worst nightmare and it`s time they rose up and said "no more we want peace".

It`s time for the Palestinian Police Authority to shed off it`s terrorist roots and do it`s job for the "people" and start cracking down and arresting these cowards.
Then sit down with the Israelis and show them that they`re serious about peace.
paddles
5:16:35 AM
9/10/07

Someone's buddies got busted:

Police Break Up Israeli Neo-Nazi Ring

By ARON HELLER
The Associated Press
Monday, September 10, 2007; 4:26 AM

JERUSALEM -- Police said Sunday they have broken up a cell of young Israeli neo-Nazis accused of a string of brutal racist and anti-Semitic attacks, videos of which were played on television to a stunned national audience.

The eight suspects, all immigrants from the former Soviet Union in their late teens or early 20s, are seen in the videos kicking victims on the ground to a bloody pulp, hitting a man over the head with an empty beer bottle and proclaiming their allegiance to Adolf Hitler with a Nazi salute.

Sixty years after the Nazi Holocaust killed 6 million Jews, incidents of anti-Semitism continue to outrage Israelis and the discovery of such violence in their own country dominated morning radio shows and made the front pages of newspapers with headlines such as "Unbelievable."

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who viewed the footage with his ministers at the weekly Cabinet meeting, called it "violence for the sake of violence."

"I am sure that there is not a person in Israel who can remain indifferent to these scenes, which indicate that we too as a society have failed in the education of these youths," he said.

While Israel has experienced isolated incidents of anti-Semitism in the past, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said the arrests were the first time an organized cell has been discovered.

The eight youths, who immigrated to Israel as children, were arrested over the past two months in connection with at least 15 attacks against religious Jews, foreign workers from Asia, drug addicts, the homeless and gays. A ninth member has fled the country, he said.

More:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/10/AR2007091000370_pf.html
bearmagnet
5:56:09 AM
9/10/07

You know...I just wonder what the world would say if we responded with the President saying,"We intend to kill as many (insert name here) as we can."

LOL...you libbies would scream from the high heavens.
XL400236
7:10:30 AM
9/10/07

Try a flock of lobbyist and see who screams?
uncliff
7:53:18 AM
9/10/07

Nothing Like Digging Around in Garbage
for your next meal. This is what the Palestinians have been reduced to doing.

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2007/09/01/world/20070902_WESTBANK_SLIDESHOW_index.html

Time and again I will bring this thread back to the topic I started it for. The country of Israeli is racist. It is an apartheid state. It is not a democracy. For the ones of you who never post I ask that you go to the links I post and judge for yourselves.
The statistics tell who is doing the real killing in occupied Palestine. The pro-Israeli crowd in here can only call names and whine about things that happened in Europe 65 years ago. What is happening today will help determine how the whole of this country is judged 25, 50, a 100 years from now. Above all our country should do what is right. What is happening to the Palestinians right now is not right. Be the catalyst for change that honors what our country should be about.
solitary hiker
8:55:05 AM
9/10/07

The statistics propganda tell who is doing the real killing in occupied Palestine. - SH88

Fixed it for you.
Mutt
9:00:59 AM
9/10/07

Mutt
You have nothing, nada, zero. In the same way you were full fo $hit about the Iraqi war you are full of $hit now. The truth will out. You can't stop it.
last edited: 9/10/07 9:06:55 AM
solitary hiker
9:17:09 AM
9/10/07

SH88, I'd enjoy a good discussion about the Jew/Pali situation. But you are not willing to be an intellectually honest participant in one. In fact, when you started early on with the blatant Pali proganda as "proof" of Israeli wrongdoing, it was clear to me that you're about as far from honest as one can get. No one with such a comical one-sided view of the situation is worth engaging in debate. This is like a religion to you. I see a lot of parallel between your "debating" style and that of, oh, say Intelligent Design dipshyts. Personally, I'm about 88% confident that you're an 88. I do, however, reserve some doubt on that - perhaps you really are not very bright or worldly. But, I know you've pretty much convinced several other potentially objective observers of your 88-ness. That's your legacy here. That's what you've accomplished. Revel in it, because you sure as hell didn't champion objective "truth".
Mutt
9:47:14 AM
9/10/07

Is this leading to, since 1948, Pease Talk # 4,397?
uncliff
10:14:51 AM
9/10/07

I find HRW a great source of Israeli abuses. But they do also report on palistinian, hamas, whoever, abuses. So i guess that's not a good source for some and they're obviously working for...........us?
bearmagnet
10:20:02 AM
9/10/07

HRW???You're kidding right bear?

I think this says it all

State "terrorism", "starving the population," "ignoring the civilian consequences of a planned attack." These are not the mutterings of the Hezbollah propaganda machine, but parts of a statement put out by Human Rights Watch (HRW) on the conflict. HRW's statements not only bolster those who wish to see Israel wiped off the map, but epitomize all that is wrong with the NGO's approach to the Middle East.

The political bias of HRW's Middle East division is regularly expressed in its disproportionate focus on Israel and the selective use of human rights language to undermine any attempts at self defense. But recent statements have shown the extremes of hypocrisy and double standards that HRW will go to make a political point.


http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_sarah_ma_060720_human_rights_watch_t.htm
XL400236
11:50:25 AM
9/10/07

Mutt
You are a bald faced liar and as good a practitioner of Orwellian Doublespeak as any on TT. Just about all my links are to Jewish sites. And most of the rest are known (although not if the Israelis had any say so)historical facts about the history of Palestine. Take the UN partition plan of 1947. Is that a Palestinian propaganda piece? Is the report to Ralph Bunch on Israeli terrorists up to 1948 a propaganda piece? Is the NYT article a propaganda piece?Are the statistics about the death tallies propaganda pieces? If they are then refute them with your statistics. Give me the death tallies. Show me the Israeli house demolitions by Palestinians. Show me Israeli children digging through rubbish piles to make enough money to help feed their families. You won't because you can't. The same way you can't weasel your way out of all the bull$hit you spread about how the Iraqi War was going to be a 70,000 man cakewalk.
last edited: 9/10/07 12:42:42 PM
solitary hiker
12:50:49 PM
9/10/07

Israeli Racism Called Racism By Israelis

Thanks, XL. Nice comeback. The author is editor of NGO-monitor.org. Which is based in Israel.

bearmagnet
1:46:19 PM
9/10/07

...What brings this to mind just now is an unfolding assault on Human Rights Watch, which is widely regarded and respected, along with Amnesty International USA, as the premier human rights agency in the United States. Its reports are carefully researched and, often to the embarrassment of governments, widely reported.

So, for example, its recent 53-page report on the “rendition” of some 60 alleged Islamist terrorists, sent to Egypt where (contrary to our president’s bland assessment) even our State Department indicates they are virtually certain to be tortured. Other Human Rights Watch reports in recent weeks have focused on Darfur; on America’s treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo, Afghanistan and Iraq, and on the state of human rights in Peru, in Nepal, in Iraq and in Vietnam.

These reports, frequently of conditions that would otherwise pass unnoticed, are produced by a staff of nearly 200 people in 15 offices around the world with an annual budget just short of $22 million.

It comes as no surprise that Human Rights Watch also speaks out on Israel, often (though not always) critically. Enter NGO Monitor, an organization that believes that the best way to defend Israel is to condemn anyone who criticizes it.

More:

http://www.forward.com/articles/monitoring-the-monitor/
last edited: 9/10/07 1:40:39 PM
bearmagnet
1:52:07 PM
9/10/07

pedXing
“Just one example: how did the Iraqi and other Arab press respond to Saddam's use of nerve gas?”

The Arab press rightly blamed the United States and clown prince von Rumsfeld, the country/guy who was furnishing WMDs to Saddam during the Iraq-Iran war!”
solitary hiker
10:08:07 AM
9/07/07

Sol, you got any evidence that:

1) The US furnished WMD's to Saddam?
2) What evidence do you have that any Iraqi Press criticized the use of toxic chemicals by Saddam at all?
3) What Arab Press offered any criticism?
4) You think it's right to criticise the US and Rummy without mentioning Saddam's culpability?

Personally, I thought it was f'd and hypocritical that Bush and Rummy used this atrocity by Saddam as part of the justification for invading, when the US
had been selling helicopters and offering military inteligence to Saddam while he was doing it. Funny that you can see US hypocrisy on this, but can't see other problems.

Selective Attention Disorder strikes again.
pedxing
3:51:41 PM
9/10/07

ped you just keep getting yourself in deeper
How's this for starters?

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0406g.asp

Here's the clown prince himself meeting with American ally Saddam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDABe8AOuCQ

Want another spin on it?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0613-03.htm

more

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0802-01.htm
solitary hiker
4:32:29 PM
9/10/07

A small victory in Palestine
Make no mistake, there are good Israelis fighting for what is right. This thread is not about trashing all Jews or Israelis. I try to find articles that show this. As I have stated before I do my best to find articles at Jewish sites. The very fact that these issues can be discussed in Israel should prompt Americans to ask the question "Why can't these topics be discussed in our MSM?"

Here's the article.

http://www.counterpunch.org/
solitary hiker
5:01:11 PM
9/10/07

Jewish Extremism

DEBKAfile: Newly-arrived Iranian and Hizballah instructors upgrade Palestinian missile capabilities in Gaza. IDF restrained from striking.


For all its upgraded armor, Israel’s armed forces are prevented from launching effective offensive action to destroy the upgraded Palestinian missile infrastructure in Gaza.

After a Palestinian seven-missile barrage hit Sderot and its environs Sunday, the town’s parents decided to send the town’s school children to Jerusalem with their school books to hold classes opposite the Knesset.

They are protesting yet another meaningless pledge by the prime minister “to punish every missile launcher” in Gaza and his appeal to… the UN to stop the Palestinian missile blitz from Gaza. Sderot citizens say the school year which opened Sunday, Sept 2, is over. The town is breaking up because the armed forces are not allowed to break up the Hamas and Jihad Islami missile system or stop the flow of smuggled war materiel into Gaza. Once the education system shuts down, the town will expire.

DEBKAfile’s military sources report: The Jihad Islami chief Mohammad al Hindi recently brought back from Tehran dozens of Iranian and Hizballah artillery experts who are training their operatives and advising on the development of upgraded, extended-range missiles. Southern command officers told DEBKAfile: The government forbids us to take out the Iranian and Hizballah missile experts recently arrived in Gaza.

The officers ask why the government appealed to the United Nations, which is helpless, instead of to Egypt, which knowingly allowed the terrorists and their foreign advisers to touch down in Cairo and proceed to Gaza despite an intelligence alert of their arrival. Since they landed in early August, Palestinian capabilities have improved. Above all, the commanders ask, why is the army not given the go-ahead to knock out the upgraded Palestinian military machine and its foreign helpers.

http://www.debka.com/section.php?cid=2
paddles
5:02:40 AM
9/11/07

Bear...you are joking when you use the term Amnesty Int and RESPECTED in the same sentence right?

RESPECTED? These clowns are part of the IGNORE Genocide in Africa crowd. They are as Pro Socialist and Anti Freedom as any leftist group out there.
XL400236
5:06:06 AM
9/11/07

Please tell me how targeting daycares,helps the peace process...?


SHELTERS NEEDED IN SDEROT
Embattled community requests 'Lifeshield' portable bomb shelters

Israel started its school year this week on an ominous note, as a Kassam rocket fired from Gaza nearly struck a daycare center in Sderot that had no bomb shelter to protect 15 young toddlers being cared for inside. Most of the infants were thrown into shock by the explosion in their playground outside and the glass windows shattering around them.

Parents in the embattled community have decided to keep their children home from school indefinitely, until the government and army can ensure their safety. Many schools and kindergartens in Sderot do not have bomb shelters, and a group of worried parents and children came up to Jerusalem on Wednesday to protest this intolerable situation in front of the Prime Minister's Office.

"I am a man of peace and I want Sderot to be like any other city in the world... Any other city would not agree to be bombed for seven years," the grandfather of one 8 year-old girl told ICEJ News today.

"We live in fear and anxiety and it is very difficult to live in Sderot. Every night, every day is very, very serious and dangerous because we are going in the street and we have only 15 seconds to find a shelter," said a father of four children. "This is the situation and it cannot go on.

Palestinian terrorists operating in nearby Gaza deliberately launch Kassam rockets in the early morning hours when they know many civilians are out in the streets of Sderot heading to work or school. Parents are refusing to send their children out into this danger zone.
paddles
5:10:18 AM
9/11/07

paddles
Since they landed in early August, Palestinian capabilities have improved

And where are all the dead Israeli school children? Surely with all this upgraded capability there are some associated Israeli deaths? Show me the death tallies.

DEBKAfile is straight out Mossad disinformation. Mutt vaunted Stratfort(sp?) is not much different. Put out by neo-con zionist hack Friedman.
solitary hiker
9:05:09 AM
9/11/07

Interesting read.......

Correlating Palestinian Aid and Homicides 2000-2007


http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=1362
paddles
10:14:24 AM
9/11/07

paddles
By Camera's logic if the aid is reduced to zero then all Palestinian violence with be reduced towards zero. How handy and tidy that policy would be for the Israelis. Let us starve them out and they will leave by their own choice. We (the Israelis) have talked about forced transfer of the Palestinians (ethnic cleansing) for years, since even before there was an Israel! Our zionists leaders from Theodore Hertzl at the First World Zionist Congress in Switzerland in 1896 down through Menachin Begin, Netanyahu and the current Leiberman have dreamt of it. It is recorded in their diaries and documents. But what would the world think? We've made ourselves out to be a democracy, a "light amoung the nations", God's Chosen to lead the rest of the world to the one Jewish God Yahweh. So how can we do this ethnic cleansing and still pretend to be a part of civilized society? Well convincing Europe and the rest of the world to cut all aid to Palestine would achieve our goal and no one could say it was the Israelis who did this underhanded thing. Etc etc ad nauseum.

Now to get back to my question which you refuse to answer. Where are the Israeli deaths? How many Israeli children were killed? Produce the death tallies paddles.
last edited: 9/11/07 2:48:41 PM
solitary hiker
2:59:34 PM
9/11/07

paddles
5:07:48 AM
9/12/07

Children Under Fire


USA Today correspondent Jack Kelley reported:

"Children serve as infantry in the confrontations between Israeli and Palestinian soldiers. In scenes reminiscent of Iranian children sent to the Iraqi front equipped with plastic keys to heaven, Palestinian children are sent close to Israeli positions with rocks and Molotov cocktails, while the gunmen and snipers fire from positions hundreds of yards back." (Oct. 23, 2000)

The Jordanian newspaper "Alrai" (citing an interview with the Kuwaiti newspaper "Alzaman" on 20 June 2002), quotes Abu Mazen, Deputy Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, who spoke of how Palestinian children are being exploited into carrying out terror attacks:

"At least 40 children from the city of Raphah have lost their arms as a result of the explosions of pipe bombs. They received five Israeli shekels (about one U.S. dollar) for throwing them." (see original article at
http://honestreporting.com/graphics/abumazen.gif)

The Palestinian Authority has provided children with military training. The New York Times reports that 25,000 children were trained in the summer 2000 in PA camps in the use of firearms, the making of Molotov cocktails, the methods of kidnapping Israeli leaders, and conducting ambushes. (New York Times - Aug. 3, 2000)

The use of children reflects a long-time Palestinian strategy in the fight against Israel. In June 1982, the PLO issued a military call-up order for all boys aged 12 and older whose fathers served in Fatah units. The children were promised $80 a month and were attached to regular PLO battalions, each serving in his father's company.

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/critiques/Children_Under_Fire.asp
paddles
5:17:40 AM
9/12/07

Israel Resists Calls for Broad Assault in Gaza
Lawmakers, Citizens React After Palestinian Rocket Wounds 69 Troops at Training Base

By Scott Wilson
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, September 12, 2007; A12

JERUSALEM, Sept. 11 -- The Israeli government resisted calls Tuesday from hawkish lawmakers and angry citizens to begin a broad assault on the Gaza Strip after a pre-dawn rocket strike on an army training base wounded 69 soldiers on their last day of boot camp.

The single rocket struck an unoccupied tent at the Zikim base, less than two miles north of Gaza, near a cluster of other tents in which recruits slept. By the end of the day, one soldier remained in critical condition and nine others had severe to moderate injuries. The majority sustained light injuries and wounds, many from shrapnel.

The number of reported casualties was extraordinary for an attack involving the rocket known generically as a Qassam, a highly inaccurate weapon cut from lampposts and other tubing that usually carries only a small amount of explosive material in its warhead. Palestinian gunmen compensate by firing the rockets with frequency; more than 100 were launched last month.

In a statement sent to news agencies in Gaza, the Islamic Jihad group asserted responsibility for the attack, which the armed movement called "Operation Victory at Dawn." The armed wing of the smaller Popular Resistance Committees was named as a partner.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/11/AR2007091100225_pf.html
bearmagnet
5:03:30 PM
9/12/07

My What a Busy Bee You've Been paddles
All those poor 999 Israelis killed since 2000. A good percentage of the names were Arabic. I guess the only time the Israelis consider Arabs living in Israel to be Israelis is when they get killed in terrorist attacks. And did you notice the Israelis killed outside Israel. That's kind of a stretch don't you think? I mean blaming their deaths on Palestinians?

But that brings up a point and maybe paddles you know the answer to this. Is there something about the number 999 in Cabballah numerology that makes it important? And is the 999 number as inflated as the 6,000,000 number? Do you have to divide that number by 3 or 4 to get the actual number of Israeli deaths? Inquiring minds want to know.

paddles do you realize that the Israelis under Ariel Sharon and their Lebanese allies killed nearly 1700 Palestinians over the course of four days between Sept 15th and Sept 18, 1982? Wanna read about it?

http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007/09/remembering-ariel-sharon.html

Do you realize the Israelis murdered over 1000 Lebanese civilians last summer only because they could?

Do you realize that the Israelis leadership is are every bit as radical and insane as any Muslim mullah. Read what Olmert just said in a recent speech.

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/3498

The Israelis are a proud and hauty people but because of this conceit they will be laid low. I'm telling you there will be a payday someday. No one sheds a tear when a mad dog is put down. It will be the same for Israel.
last edited: 9/13/07 6:51:54 PM
solitary hiker
6:43:57 PM
9/13/07

Jimmy Carter as anti-semite

There has been hub bub over opposing viewpoints on Israel legitimacy lately. Hell, if you really want to go back in time about who occupied the Levant in prehistorical context, Neandertal might have something to say about it.

BTW -- Would this really make Neandertal a Jew?

Here's a good story for y'all to chew on. Try not to choke on the big words.

"Fracas Erupts Over Book on Mideast by a Barnard Professor Seeking Tenure

By KAREN W. ARENSON

Published: September 10, 2007
New York Times

A tenure bid by an assistant professor of anthropology at Barnard College who has critically examined the use of archaeology in Israel has put Columbia University once again at the center of a struggle over scholarship on the Middle East.

The professor, Nadia Abu El-Haj, who is of Palestinian descent, has been at Barnard since 2002 and has won many awards and grants, including a Fulbright scholarship and fellowships at Harvard and the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, N.J. Barnard has already approved her for tenure, officials said, and forwarded its recommendation to Columbia University, its affiliate, which has the final say.

It is Dr. Abu El-Haj’s book, “Facts on the Ground: Archaeological Practice and Territorial Self-Fashioning in Israeli Society,” that has made her a lightning rod, setting off warring petitions opposing and supporting her candidacy, and producing charges of shoddy scholarship and countercharges of an ideological witch hunt.

Judith R. Shapiro, Barnard’s president, who is also an anthropologist, said in a statement that the tenure process was “one of the linchpins of academic freedom and liberal arts education,” and that despite the passions, it must be conducted “thoughtfully, comprehensively, systematically and confidentially.” She added, “This case will be no different, both in its rigor and its freedom from outside lobbying.”

The fracas is one of a growing list of bitter disputes over the Middle East in academe, including charges a few years ago by Jewish students at Columbia that they were being intimidated by professors of Middle Eastern studies. A university investigation found no evidence of anti-Semitic statements by professors, but it criticized one professor for becoming angry at a student in his class in a discussion of Israel’s conduct.

At DePaul University in Chicago, a tenure fight led to the resignation last week of an assistant professor, Norman G. Finkelstein. He has written that Israel and Jews have used the Holocaust for their own purposes, including to oppress Palestinians.

Zachary Lockman, a professor at New York University who is the president of the Middle East Studies Association, said, “It’s a very conflicted field, given the passions about the Middle East, and there are a lot of people outside academe who have very strong feelings.”

Dr. Abu El-Haj, who is teaching a course on “Race and Sexuality in Scientific and Social Practice” this semester, declined to be interviewed while her tenure was under consideration.

Born in the United States in 1962, Dr. Abu El-Haj studied at Bryn Mawr College and earned a Ph.D. at Duke. In her book, which grew out of her doctoral research and was published by the University of Chicago Press in 2001, Dr. Abu El-Haj says Israeli archaeologists searched for an ancient Jewish presence to help build the case for a Jewish state. In their quest, she writes, they sometimes used bulldozers, destroying remains of other cultures, including those of Arabs.

She concludes her book by saying the ransacking by thousands of Palestinians in 2000 of Joseph’s tomb, a Jewish holy site in the West Bank, “needs to be understood in relation to a colonial-national history” of Israel and the symbolic resonance of artifacts.

The Middle East Studies Association, an organization of scholars who focus on the region, chose her book in 2002 as one of the year’s two best books in English about the Middle East. The other was “Being Israeli: The Dynamics of Multiple Citizenship,” by Gershon Shafir and Yoav Peled, published by Cambridge University Press.

Jere L. Bacharach, a historian at the University of Washington who presented the awards, said at the time that both books were “nuanced, nonpolemic works on subjects that too often lend themselves to political tirades and polemics.”

Critics of Dr. Abu El-Haj’s book, however, said her aim was to undermine Israel’s right to exist, and challenged her methodology and findings.

“Serious people are outraged when people who are rank amateurs come in,” Jacob Lassner, a professor of history and religion at Northwestern University who wrote a negative review of her book, said in an interview. “It’s insulting. Brain surgeons would be offended if a medical technician criticized their work. That’s what’s happened here. The problem, of course, is that she is politically driven.”

As Dr. Abu El-Haj’s tenure deadline approached, Paula R. Stern, a 1982 Barnard graduate who lives in a Jewish settlement in the West Bank, began an online petition against the professor for what it called her “demonstrably inferior caliber, her knowing misrepresentation of data and violation of accepted standards of scholarship.” As of yesterday, it had more than 2,000 signatures, some of them from Columbia faculty members.

“I am horrified,” Ms. Stern said in an interview, “that Barnard would even consider tenure for a professor who is so clearly unqualified.”

But Dr. Abu El-Haj also has many supporters, particularly in her field, who say her book is solid, even brilliant, and part of an innovative trend of looking at how disciplines function.

They have produced a counter-petition, signed by about 1,300 people, including many professors around the country and abroad, urging that she receive tenure and calling the attacks on her “an orchestrated witch hunt” by those trying to shut down legitimate intellectual inquiry.

Paul Manning, a linguist in the anthropology department at Trent University in Peterborough, Ontario, who initiated the petition supporting her, said that he acted in part because “Nadia has been targeted a long time, for years, and she’s not been having a very good time of it.”

He was also concerned about the “concerted attack on the autonomy of the tenure process,” Professor Manning said. He added that people were “particularly angered” about the Barnard case because it came on the heels of the DePaul case, in which Alan Dershowitz, a Harvard law professor, campaigned to derail Dr. Finkelstein’s tenure bid.

Dr. Abu El-Haj has some opponents at her own college. “There is every reason in the world to want her to have tenure, and only one reason against it — her work,” said Alan F. Segal, a professor of religion and Jewish studies at Barnard. “I believe it is not good enough.”

He said he was particularly troubled by her suggestion that ancient Israelites had not inhabited the land where Israel now stands, and he said that she had either misunderstood or ignored evidence to the contrary. “She completely misunderstands what the biblical tradition is saying,” he added. “She is not even close. She is so bizarrely off.”

He also said that a Barnard official, whom he declined to name, had asked him to suggest people who were not Jewish to comment on Dr. Abu El-Haj’s work for the tenure review, and that he had refused.

Elizabeth Gildersleeve, a Barnard spokeswoman, said that a high official of the college had met with Professor Segal on the tenure case and asked him to submit names for letters of reference. But Ms. Gildersleeve said that “the charge that restrictions were put on that request is absolutely untrue.”

Dr. Abu El-Haj’s supporters say that she has come under attack partly because she is a Palestinian-American and that her opponents often quote her out of context to distort her arguments.

“She is a scholar of the highest quality and integrity who is being persecuted because she has the courage to focus an analytical lens on subjects that others wish to shield from scrutiny,” said Michael Dietler, an anthropology professor at the University of Chicago, “and because she happens to be of Palestinian origin.”

Whether Dr. Abu El-Haj will win tenure is expected to be decided in the next few months. The tenure rate at Barnard in recent years has been high: The college said that of 37 faculty members nominated for tenure by departments since 2002-3, tenure was granted to 33."
laqtis
10:07:23 PM
9/13/07

Do you realize that the Israelis leadership is are every bit as radical and insane as any Muslim mullah. Read what Olmert just said in a recent speech.

LOL! Sol, your bias and lack of critical thinking on this matter is in full display!

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/3498[/i]

This was a satire! You missed the joke. It was playing with the story about Irans president to make a point about about what it might look like if the Israelis were as nutty as some of the Islamic extremists. Anyone who could think Olmert would really say such a thing betrays extreme ignorance about Olmert and Israeli politics.
pedxing
10:37:38 PM
9/13/07

Bawhahahaha! Sol got punked! That's what ya get for posting bogs as proof. Olmert wouldn't have the balls to say something like that.

I do find it telling that you show outrage that he might say Wipe Iran off the face of the earth at a World Without Islam conference. This is exactly what the Muslim leaders DO discuss every time they have their world conference, wiping Israel off the face of globe.
Nigal
2:25:51 AM
9/14/07

Oh my goodness did I get punked?
You hopeless boobs sound almost as giddy as 13 year old school girls at a slumber party. Actually the joke's on you. Cause just as Olmert never said those things neither did Ahmadinejad. Let me repeat.

Admadinejad never said he wanted "Israel wiped off the map."

IT WAS/IS A LIE propagated by MEMRI, FLAME, DEBKAfile, Camera, and all the other Israeli disinformation sites.

Fortunately there a complete text of the speech and any Persian (Farsi) translator could easily see that the propaganda sites had misrepresented what Admadinejad really said. But you facilitators of the Palestinian genocide only want to hear something good about the "light unto the nations" don't you?

Here are numerous links that discuss this Israeli lie.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-scher/the-importance-of-cole-v_b_20350.html

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jonathan_steele/2006/06/post_155.html.printer.friendly

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/11/news/iran.php

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

http://www.radioislam.org/nejad/freedom-of-speech.htm
last edited: 9/14/07 7:26:31 AM
solitary hiker
7:23:52 AM
9/14/07

laqtis
Untenured professors dare not criticize Israelite "history", the holocaust industry or Israel policies. Theater companies dare not produce off-Broadway plays about Rachel Corrie. American politicians or wannabe politicians dare not question the ongoing proxy wars for Israel (Iraq and Iran). And television producers or news reporters dare not mention that at least four times as many Palestinians are being murdered by the Israeli military as there are Israelis being killed by suicide bombers or Qassam missles.

But thanks to God and the 1st Amendment there are still thinking Americans who can!
last edited: 9/14/07 7:42:49 AM
solitary hiker
7:50:55 AM
9/14/07

SH -- This "practice" of "nationalistic" archaeology Israel is engaged in is no different than the "practice" of "nationalistic" archaeology the Nazi Germany, Mormon's, Fascist Italy and many other nations have practiced presently, and in the past. IMHO, Israel needs that region to be "theirs" for many reasons. It's is truly unfortunate that countries like Israel continue to disrupt the archaeological record with their severally biased interpretations of what they are finding. Of course, it should be noted that I do not believe that all Israeli archaeologists act unethically; however, the majority of them engaged in this level of activity is what I have based my generalization on.
laqtis
10:41:36 AM
9/14/07

"Israel must be wiped off the map ... The Islamic world will not let its historic enemy live in its heartland."

Addressing a conference on The World without Zionism, in Tehran on 26 October.

I know I know, this quote must be from some Zionist web site. Oops, wrong again. It's Al Jazeera.

http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=17029
Nigal
2:19:57 PM
9/14/07

Good catch Nigal. Or Sol, are you saying that Al Jazeera is part of the Zionist conspiracy?


BTW: Sol - Did you read your own links that you gave as evidence of the WMD to Saddam connection? Now, I've been pointing out for a long time that Rummy and company helped Saddam out back when he was using WMDs against Iran and the Kurds. However, the links you supply are a long way from providing evidence that the US gave Saddam WMDs. Of course you ignored my other points.
pedxing
7:38:20 PM
9/14/07

Nigal you can't catch a break can you?
Admadinejad never said it. Go look at the correct translated text of the speech.

pedXing,
Hell I knew Reagan and Rummy were aiding Iraq in the Iraqi-Iran War. I knew they were giving him the stuff he need to make WMD. That was common knowledge then and now.

That this government can sit and talk about what a rat Saddam was is such a joke. This government, no matter which party, doesn't give a $hit about anyone and they will use whoever they can when they can as long as their immediate goals are reached. They used Saddam when he was fighting our enemies.

The US government has never been about democracy or anything else beside protecting the foreign investments of the oligarchs and Wall Street etc. Within ten years of its founding it was stepping on its own citizens like cockroaches. As soon as Shay's Rebellion was over they went after the Indians, then the Mexicans, then the South, then the Indians again, then the Mormons, then the Chinese coolies, then the Philipines, then beer and wine drinkers, japanese-Amriecans, VietNam, etc, etc. Now they're stealing the American public blind and trashing the Middle East. It has never stopped.

As far as me ignoring your other points... when was the last time you answered one of my questions? I'm not doing this thread for you. You were never my intended audience. I only care that you post so that this thread stays near the top. Thanks.
solitary hiker
9:41:24 AM
9/15/07

Sol - Al Jazeera clearly quotes Ahmadinejad as saying, "Israel must be wiped off the map ... The Islamic world will not let its historic enemy live in its heartland. at a conference on October 26th"

So, I won't be swayed by an alternate translation of something else he said the day before. What's more, if Al Jazeera uses this as a translation of something he said, it seems ridiculous to blame it on MEMRI. I'm definitely not going to be swayed by a hair splitting partisan attempt to white wash some other statement he made at another place and time.
pedxing
1:46:24 PM
9/15/07

For a more detailed description of the speach - also in Al Jazeera, check out:

http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=15816
last edited: 9/15/07 1:43:13 PM
pedxing
1:50:54 PM
9/15/07

A Very Good Read

This Will Make pedX Proud

Here's a little sotry to show you how slanted
the MSM is. In this case it's the Washington Post. I'm going to quote one paragraph of the article to make a point but if you like the entire article is available at the source. Here's the paragraph.

Since confiscating weapons from Fatah during the takeover, Hamas forces are better equipped than during previous Israeli incursions, said senior Hamas official Nizar Rayyan. He said Hamas would kidnap Israel soldiers if they launched an incursion.

Now do you think this Hamas official said they would kidnap the soldiers? How do you kidnap anyone when they come into your territory with guns, missles and tanks blazing. Dollar to donuts the guy said that Hamas would do everything they could to capture Israeli soldiers. Those soldiers would be POWs. But the news media puts their pro-Israel spin on everthing they write about occupied Palestine.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/15/AR2007091501672.html
last edited: 9/17/07 9:16:37 AM
solitary hiker
9:19:58 AM
9/17/07

As you might have heard, Condoleezza Rice is coming to Israel tomorrow, Wednesday, to continue and push the secret agreement being concocted by PM Ehud Olmert and PLO Chief Abu Mazzen, in preparation for the November suicide summit in the USA.

According to media leaks the two have already signed a eight point document which basically calls for the creation of a PLO state in all of Judea and Samaria, the destruction of over 95% of the Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria, the division of Jerusalem and the handing over of the Temple Mount to the PLO. Details of the agreement can be found on the following Arab website (Sadly the Maan website has received the exclusive document and we therefore are forced to refer you to their viciously anti-Jewish website which has been the source for all other news agencies:

http://www.maannews.net/he/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=11963
paddles
10:02:52 AM
9/18/07

The nature of zionism
Basically zionism was an is a racist policy.
Here's some more real history.

http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/09/zionist-question.html

There is one name in this article you should remember. That name is Ze'ev Jabotinski. He was a particularly nasty zionist fascist. I'm going to have a whole real history chapter on this "piece of work."
solitary hiker
4:10:50 PM
9/18/07

The zionists will never give up Judea until they are driven off of it. Even if they do offer it up they will have stipulations that will make it impossible for Hamas or even the PLO to swallow. As an example, one thing the zionists have wanted the Palestinians to do is relinquish control of natural sources of water(springs, wells, aquafers rivers etc)and let the Israelis supply them piped desalinized water. How generous of the Israelis. How controlling also.

If the zionist want peace there are only three ways to do it.
1) Dissolve the state of Israel and declare the bi-national state of Palestine under the governance of the UN until national elections can be held and a democratic government of both the Palestinian people and the Jewish people can be formed.
2)Move back to the UN partition line of 1947 and pay the Palestinians for the land stolen at that time.
3) Move back to the pre-1967 border, Give up all the West Bank, Gaza (and control of natural gas fields offshore), Shabaa Farms area of Lebanon, and the Golan Heights. Give Palestinians that lived in 1947 the right to return to their homes in pre-1967 Israel or pay them restitution for what was stolen from them.
last edited: 9/18/07 4:46:45 PM
solitary hiker
4:57:32 PM
9/18/07

Rep. Moran In Trouble For Telling Truth
The zionists are mad because a man has the courage to dare speak the truth.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/19/14364/2409
solitary hiker
3:25:29 PM
9/19/07

Lobby money taken from US taxpayers in foreign aid, get um Jim.
salebored
3:52:40 PM
9/19/07

The Israelis are building a mountain of negative kharma for themselves. One day that mountain will crash down on their heads. They will cry and whine and ask why does everyone hate them? Such is the way of a stiff necked and rebellious people. How many times can a people ignore the lessons God has tried to teach them. Payday someday.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6817
solitary hiker
1:10:11 PM
9/21/07

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