what do you `ll do for a living..?

“"Who mentioned that any other culture wasnt good enough."

You did.

"If christian missionaries dried up and so did their charitable organizations without a doubt there would multitudes who are far worse off period. The numerous wells that have been dug in malawi would not be there without the efforts of Christians. No one else was or is doing this work."

Your claim is that "those people" would not be able to get through the day without Westernized help. This claim inherently suggests that they are inferior and could never presently exist without Westernized help. To say that these people cannot dig a well without Westernized help is absurd.

"Q, you sure are making some crazy generalizations."

Oh, yeah? Like what? I used what you presented -- don't like your own words, choose them more carefully next time then.

"Did I mention pushing western civ? Please show me where . I mentioned digging wells."

Therein lays your problem grasping the simple concept of this subject matter.

"You seem to be projecting quite a bit."

I am not a medium, nor do I claim to be. Projections are not my forte.

"No one is judging any cultures. People are meeting peoples needs."

What a full load of BS. You really need to read what you write before you post it, then. At least take your blinders off and realize the affect of your endorsements.

"Good luck and God Bless."

No matter what, you can always be counted on to be passive aggressive. Save the "blessing" for someone who "really needs it", like those poor folks who need Westerners to dig wells for them.

"Good attempts at trolling Q, you can take your fight and anger elsewhere."

It's only trolling to you, because what I say doesn't "toe" with your opinion. Trying to discredit me by attempting to classify me as "angry" is such a grade school move. It's very obvious from your statements that you have no real clear motivation to listen to an opposing point of view. Funny, you used to like what I said, but I guess that was then, eh?

"Dayhiker, standing up for someone unfairly attacked for the work of his wife isnt a bad trait. Its an honorable one."

Honorable to stick you nose in someone else's business? LMFAO! There he is, everyone. Sir Lancelot -- whose the one that said Chivalry was dead? Perhaps birch felt paddles was inferior in this situation and needed his help? Does paddles have any wells that need digging?

"Your dead wrong.My wifes there because she cares,as is her organization and many others"

Dead wrong? Give me a break. Your biased and subjective claims are worthless. I understand that no amount of ions presently smacking against your noggin is going to change your mind.

"The police regularly beat drug addicts to death,in the eyes of the government their useless a blight.I know a woman who was thrown into a fire by a Russian policeman and was left to die,her crime she was a addict."

Now why in the hell would I believe a story like that? Personal experience cannot be presented as support in any argument. Here ya go -- I just talked to my brother-in-law who is Estonian. He told me that everything you have claimed is not the way it is in all of the Uke, rather, limited to certain areas much like the United States. You are making cross-culture comparisons based only on your biased ethnocentric viewpoint.

Your propaganda pictures are worth a thousand words. What? They don't smile in the Uke? If they are receiving such "great things" from your wifes work, why are they not happy in her presence? How come you choose to display only pictures that re-enforce your stance? I'm sure you'll prolly dig something up now, or stage something (typical tactic) in an attempt to "prove me wrong". Don;t worry, it's not like I haven't seen it one milllllllion times, but I can't use personal experience for support, right?

"This has nothing to do with saying our culture is better,she and many others live the Soviet culture when their there,my wife and her organization has no desire to Westernize anybody.It`s about caring for someone other than your self."

Right out of the handbook. You serve your Master well.

"About 7-8 years ago the Methodist church had a program to bring kids from the Chernoybl area to the states. 6 weeks of fresh air and no radiation does wonders for their long term prospects."

Hopefully you disclosed that the "Lord and Savior" paid for the airfare.

"paddles - just ignore Q. A short while back he insinuated that my wife was a slut. It's not worth it man."

A "slut"? I don't remember saying that. Perhaps "desperate", but I don't recall calling her a "slut". This coming from a troll who has worked this board for over 3 years -- and who has been banned from this site on how many occasions now? Yeah, that statement holds about as much water as one of Nigal's plastic WalMart water bags.

"There are villiages without roads,hydro or water...hard to imagine in this century.The need is very real."

Those poor people in New Orleans!

Oh, sorry. Your still stuck on saving those overseas. My Super Bad.

"That`s beyond contempt and unfortunately speaks volumes about his character."

Being judged yet again. Looks like I'm going to Hell now. It really means a butt load to me what some "person" on the internet thinks about me. No, really. I wake up everyday hoping that faceless internet people have a positive image of me. I mean, what is a person supposed to do if they cannot be affirmed by an internet social group? Perhaps if I changed my ways, embraced the "Lord" all of my sinning on this board will be washed away?

Respectfully blow me. Freedom of speech is something that I am proud to exercise. It is absolutely absurd that someone on the internet would post something like you did and not expect a counter-point to be presented. Hell, Mutt's laughing his ass of right now, because he flamed you first and never caught any of the flack y'all are giving me. Hell, bring it. I'll take all ya bassturds on; wouldn't be the first time.

I like Newcastle btw, Mutt.
last edited: 9/20/07 10:11:31 PM”

“What do I do for a living? I'm working at schools, YEAH! I get to work with kids, DOUBLE YEAH!! I get to work days, TRIPLE YEAH!!! I get weekends and holidays off, QUADRUPLE YEAH!!!!. I'm a Campus Security Supervisor Sub and a Noon Duty Supervisor Sub and I love it!!!!!”

“The bitterness is amazing. I think I nailed it a few posts up. Have a good day q.”

“Pretty much sums it up ...

Hell, Mutt's laughing his ass of right now, because he flamed you first and never caught any of the flack y'all are giving me.”

“I work with white tailed deer which includes botany and animal behavior”

““I work with white tailed deer which includes botany and animal behavior”
mapleleaf


Sounds like a cool job mapleleaf..”

“Hell, Mutt's laughing his ass of right now, because he flamed you first and never caught any of the flack y'all are giving me. - laqtis

Well, I didn't expect anyone to pick up the anti-evangelical banner after I had to drop it (been busy).

I'll just say this: I'm not surprised at the lack of response from the religionists. They have done everything possible to keep from answering the central criticism brought forth by me, you, and Y2. I can understand not responding to my rather trollish arguments, but hell, Y2 has asked politely at least twice. And the response? Look at Birch. He *never* responds to legitimate criticism; he pops in, spins it around as a troll, or character flaw, or some other petty jab, and then runs away claiming higher ground. Pretty childish. And paddles - refuses to separate the issue of evangelism from aid work; a criticism of the former is a criticism of the latter. Not exactly intellectually sound. And of course dayhiker yipping about our ankles and the occasional high five from some other religionist lurker.

If that's all they can muster in response...well, if I were JC, I'd be pretty damn embarrassed of my followers.

I like Newcastle btw, Mutt. - laqtis

Which Newcastle are you referring to?”

“I mainly yip because I have neither the time or interest to turn it into a debate. Frankly, I don't care. I wish I had a better excuse, but that's about it.”

“But -

Why does this need to go hand-in-hand with a 'come to Jesus' message?

Valuable as it is in some circumstances, missionary work is also about adding new converts. As such it is seeking to spread a particular set of beliefs to a new part of the world.

This is not an attack on Christians, as I have a lot of time for people of genuine faith who are not seeking to judge others.”

Y2


Ok, I'll bite afterall...my church has done a few mission type trips to Panama. I'm actually interested in doing something like this, but frankly, have not made it a high enough priority to find the time. My interest would be the work. I'm not the type to get in someones face and lead a conversion conversaion. My interest in going would be the going and helping others, build a house or whatever. I'm a nuts and bolts type of person. I'll chit chat and talk issues and add anecdotal stories if appropriate and that's about it. That's my comfort level. Some(many?) would say that's wrong and not enough. Maybe they're right, maybe not. Either way, that's kinda who I am right now.

To continue with the question, I think the way lots of these trips are structured is that the work you do is hands on with meeting a physical need. In the evenings the attendees likely have study groups. Local folks can attend or not I expect. I think it widely varies with group and denomination. It's likely not the catchall that's being prescribed to it. As far as the why of the "recruiting," well, people going on these trips have been changed in such a way that they're willing to give up vacation time, time with family, and personal expense to go and help someone with a physical need. The giver is likely to want to share what makes them want to do this. The recipient might just be curious about why someone would want to come and help a person they've never known. That's my rather poorly articulated point of view on the issue.”

“Comfortable Compassion is a very interesting indictment of the the long term "development" mission ministries. If you are interested in thinking critically about the purpose, function and process of missions work I would suggest it as a read. It presents some excellent models and critique.

For the scoffers.... how would you have someone respond when asked by the recipient of material aid "Why do you do this?" The usual answer for most missions participants is "To tangibly demonstrate the love of Christ." It seems you would object to giving an honest answer to the question.”

“how about the "Nothing But Nets" campaign to send mesquito nets to the children in Africa? It's just getting steam up and looks like a really great mission for us 'at homers'.... Where else can you give up a ten dollar bill to actually save a kids life? In the time it took me to type this, four children died (one every 30 seconds).....check out www.nothingbutnets.org
last edited: 9/21/07 6:06:38 AM”

“Is this the book? http://www.amazon.com/Comfortable-Compassion-Poverty-Power-Church/dp/0809129361/ref=sr_1_1/002-5049914-9443252?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190380531&sr=1-1”

“That would be it.”

“PS, your second paragraph summed up in 1 sentence what I mucked up in half a page. That relates to Mutt's yapping comment...frankly, I don't have the writing skills to do much more than yap. I'm an engineer and suck at writing.”

“I'm still a dumb old stock pirate who seems to need a bible to read anything on 'TT' these days.”

“This is beginning to amaze me the main here is people in need are getting help,isn`t that the most important thing ? Why should it concern you if it`s done in Jesus name ? Does that somehow make the work less sufficent.

What is it about Jesus that creates such a negative attitude?

For those of you convinced that Mission organizations are hell bent on bringing western religion to the former Soviet Union,please realize that Christianity has been there for centuries and will continue to remain there.

Many of these mission agencies,work along side or with indeginous churches that are reaching out to people in need,They are filling a gap that the Government can`t meet,Isn`t that the most important thing ?

Through out the Ukraine a team of christian doctors from the States have bought 14 trailers and converted them into portable medical clinics.they go into villiages and offer dental,x-ray,ultra sounds,gynecology,and other medical exams.Does the fact their christian negate the work being done?

Is evangelism done yes,but it`s left up to local churches.The truth is if some one becomes a christian what`s it to you ?
There is no hammer over any ones head.

The Living Hope Center in ST.Petersburg Russia consists of two centers.They have a incredibly high success rate,and have seen hundreds of drug addicts set free,and now live productive lives.Their taught trades and taught how to overcome old habits,there able to leave the center and live a quality of life not known before.Should we shut it down and criticze it because the founder is a believer ?

I`ve stayed at the center,those addicts love Sergei(the founder) and swamp him every time he walks onto one of the centers.They recongnize that he cares about them,isn`t that the most important thing?

To say somehow that it`s wrong because it invokes Jesus name is ridiculous.The center has been attacked several times by people in the local villiage and several workers have been stabbed and shot,yet they refuse to leave because their desire is to see others set free.

The Christian Hope Center in Kiev Runs two soup kitchens,a orphanage,two drug rehab centers,has a team of men and women reaching out to seniors offering,food,clothing,and medical aide.They work among the thousands of street kids offering medical aide food clothing and try to place them into orphanges .They go into schools and help renovate and repair classrooms suffering from neglect.All these workers are volunteers they do not get paid,they give because of compassion and love .Yes they do it through the love of Christ.

What converts someone isn`t being told about Jesus,it`s seeing the demonstration of his love put into action.

If your concerned about the westernization hitting these nations,than bring your concerns to Mc Donalds,Burger King,Baskins and Robbins,and Hollywood,Nike shoes etc.. they do more to bring about the Americanization of other cultures,than any Mission agency could every do.
last edited: 9/21/07 7:43:26 AM”

“And I get the whole summer off, QUINTUPLET YEAH!!!!! which means i can go apply to work at Boy Scout summer camp for if i want to. holy cow, does it get any better than this? i can work in the mtns and live in a cabin and work with kids for 6 weeks!!!! And they'll pay me for that, WOW!!!”

“And I get the whole summer off, QUINTUPLET YEAH!!!!! which means i can go apply to work at Boy Scout summer camp for if i want to. holy cow, does it get any better than this? i can work in the mtns and live in a cabin and work with kids for 6 weeks!!!! And they'll pay me for that, WOW!!

Nice Pamela.........your making us all jealous ...”

“today i work at my son's middle school, he's soooooo excited! *giggle*

next month i work at the local high school where a few of my Boy Scouts are, i haven't told them what days though, i told them i want to surprise them, LOL!

all i need are more hours, (more money), to make this job perfect.”

“I was a Scout/Venturer leader for years,loved it.It`s something I`m considering getting into again.

Unfortunately good troops are getting hard to find in my area.”

“That's why you should jump in, paddles. Bad troops don't get good by themselves. They needs good adult leaders, who care about the boys, to jump in and take the reins. That's what I'm trying to do with my troop. Its been a year and, although its slow going, we've made some progress.”

““That's why you should jump in, paddles. Bad troops don't get good by themselves. They needs good adult leaders, who care about the boys, to jump in and take the reins. That's what I'm trying to do with my troop. Its been a year and, although its slow going, we've made some progres

I tried that once,but they were unmanagable, they lost three leaders I was one of them.Two of the leaders will never go back.

I quit after we took them to Algonquin Park.The week-end was a night mare.It started with one of the kids dialing 911 as a prank from a payphone.That little prank diverted two Ontario Provincial Police cruisers from calls to respond to what they thought was a serious problem.They weren`t very happy neither was I.

I was for sending them all home,but the other leaders were for continuing on,that was a mistake.

I quit the following week,fortunately a buddy of mine had started a scout troop in a small town about 6 miles from my house.That group was fantastic,they were there because they wanted to be.It became one of the best troops in the county...eager kids wanting to learn.

We used to camp or do backpack trips monthly.I have some really fond memories of those days.”

“I totally understand unmanagable kids. We had a few a while back that as soon as they got to the meeting place, they would take off. That, in and of itself, wouldn't be too bad, except they kept coming into the meeting and disrupting our activities. I finally had to sit them down and say, "We really want you here, but if you can't settle down and take part in our activity, then we're going to have to ask you to leave." They were ok for a couple of weeks, but then never came back.

My suggestion is: have rules that the boys have come up with themselves with consequences. At first, you'll have to take the discipline into your own hands. But eventually, you'll find that the boys will police themselves and the youth leadership will take over that role.”

“I have never had a positive experience with Boy or Girl Scouts either in a troop myself or with my kids in a troop. I'm not casting aspersions on the program's intentions. But it's implementation is so difficult.”

“This has been a very interesting read for me. For some reason I had you pegged as a female. I now realize I was mistaken. Your wife is a very beautiful woman and I know you are proud of her and her work. You should be.

Do not try to justify christianity to the likes of Mutt. To Mutt all christianity is CHRISTIANITY, monolithic, corrupt, oppressive. While it is true that parts of it have been and can be you know this is not what your wife's mission is about.

Real Christianity is about the philosophy of jesus.

Let me repeat

the philosophy of jesus.

When asked by one of the scribes or Pharisees what was the most important of the Laws (jewish religious laws) Jesus replied and I paraphase.

Love the Lord thy God with all the heart, with all thy mind, and with all thy soul. Likewise love thy neighbor as thyself. Upon these two commandments hang all the Laws and the [words of the] prophets.

There you have it. Jesus explained his philosophy in three simple sentences. So simple a child could understand it.

Jesus also said (again I paraphrase) that "if you do unto the least among us it is the same as if you had done it unto me."

That is a very powerful image. I give a meal to a hungry man or hug a lonely child and it is the same as if I had done it to the real Christ!

One can doubt the existance of God or the divinity of Christ but who in his heart of hearts can deny the truth of this philosophy? And this is the same for the philosophy of islam, or judaism, or buddha. They all, at their core, have the same basic tenet.
last edited: 9/22/07 6:27:50 AM”

“I`m a Psych.Nurse have been for the past 19 yrs.It`s starting to wear on me though.I work on a dual diagnosis ward,dealing with disruptive behaviours.

Man, all props to you for being able to do it. I worked in group homes for the mentally retarded and we had a lot of duel diagnosis people. The inexplicableness of it all boggles the mind. I worked with a guy who was chained, naked, to the bed from the time he got home from school to the time he went back and he had awful, unexplainable OCD. Heart breaking.

I'm in a much more cheery profession now. Hospice home health aide who is getting ready to take the hospice and palliative care certs and then off to nursing school.
last edited: 9/22/07 5:29:10 PM”

“Love the Lord thy God with all the heart, with all thy mind, and with all thy soul. Likewise love thy neighbor as thyself. Upon these two commandments hang all the Laws and the [words of the] prophets.

Um, Sol, you do realize this is not a new philosophy but an old Jewish one, right?”

“Makes sense, Jesus is a Jew.

Hey Nigal, did you hear I quit Office Depot? This is what I do for a living:

What do I do for a living? I'm working at schools, YEAH! I get to work with kids, DOUBLE YEAH!! I get to work days, TRIPLE YEAH!!! I get weekends and holidays off, QUADRUPLE YEAH!!!!. I'm a Campus Security Supervisor Sub and a Noon Duty Supervisor Sub and I love it!!!!!”

And I get the whole summer off, QUINTUPLET YEAH!!!!! which means i can go apply to work at Boy Scout summer camp for if i want to. holy cow, does it get any better than this? i can work in the mtns and live in a cabin and work with kids for 6 weeks!!!! And they'll pay me for that, WOW!!!”
last edited: 9/22/07 8:02:49 PM”

“Good for you chicky! I knew there were bigger and better things in store for you. Funny how we are so afraid to step out of our comfort zone but when we do we get rewarded so much.”

“i'm poor as a churchmouse and happy as all get out!”

“That's what's important. I told my scheduler that I love my job so much I'd do it for minimum wage. She said, "Oh gawd don't tell Them that! They'll try and take you up on it.".”

“REALLY!

I've been able to set up my healthcare with the V.A. But Office Depot still hasn't faxed back the form I need for Steve's medicare, and hasn't returned my calls. He'll be out of meds on Monday. It's not life threatening, but he shouldn't be off of them for very long.”

“I'm in a much more cheery profession now. Hospice home health aide who is getting ready to take the hospice and palliative care certs



Nigal you must have some fortitude to find Palliative care cheery.I did palliative care for a while,think I`d rather stay where I am
More power to yah Nigal.

You`ve got my respect...........”

“nigal is one of a kind!!!”

“Kind of what we don't know yet. LOL!

I have found that my job has milestones for me from time to time and I never, EVER, will forget them.

I had one patient that I was the fill in guy on. He required extra care and attention that the main caregiver wasn't giving. I replaced her as the main and they already had a dim view of Hospice so I worked extra hard to make this guy's last days all they could be. I visited the wife after her husband passed on and she told me when her time comes and she needs help she wants our hospice to come in and she wanted me to take care of her just like I did her husband.

I had another patient, a little old lady, who I cared for for 5 1/2 months. When she was transitioning over I came to visit her and I told her how much she had taught me and how much our time together had meant she uttered the last word she would ever tell me; "Blessings.". That word will forever be with me. There is no doubt, I get just as much from them as I give to them.”

“I have been a firefighter-EMT for 28 years.”

“Pamela, you they let you tote a shootin' arn?”

“Pamela, do they let you tote a shootin' arn?””

“nah. i just look at them and they is scared. tee hee.

actually all i do is make them like me so much that they want to be good. i do scare the bad ones though.”

“I'm a labor and delivery nurse for a living--kind of like dual diagnosis psyc nursing--before the epidural vs after the epidural. Have also done camp nursing for 10 yrs outside Yosemite at a Christian adventure camp. Get to sleep under the stars in the Sierra on a granite dome for 2-3weeks and get paid for it.”

“I'm a labor and delivery nurse for a living--kind of like dual diagnosis psyc nursing--before the epidural vs after the epidural

Sounds interesting,can you explain it alittle better for me ?”

“I do realize that what Jesus said is universally recognized as a basic tenet of all major God(s) inspired philosophies. Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism. etc all have near their core a tenet that asks men to treat others as they would like to be treated. Even moral atheists realise the correctness of this belief without the God inspired stuff.”

“Sounds like you both try to stabilize and work with irrational people. One does so with women in labor and delivery... the other does so with those who have already been born. Is that close?”

“Pamela, I can one-up you....
I get SUMMERS off, holidays and a 2-to-1 match on my 403b... :)

Love working with kids. They are a lot more awesome than society may think....”

“with that bene, you can only be a teacher then. ahhhhh, but you have to give homework. and i don't! so far the worst thing i have had to tell them is, "WALK!"”

“today i added the phrase, "pick up that trash". i expect to get an earful from my son BrianSean when he gets home. he and his friend were smashing bananas on each other, LOL!”

“Nothing Freudian about that.”

“he said everyone hates me now. i doubt it. he did though, yeah, for about an hour. he seems to be over it now. until the next time anyway. =)”

“Crack That Whip,     LOL”

“finger...where you eat smoke?”