Freezin' in Wisconsin Weekend

“for the record i know 100% for sure there is an old logging road that is an extension of yonkers road just north of the parking area for saturday night. so we could hike up the road and then into the forest on this road. i'll have to work out where we would go from here but i also know that perhaps .5 miles or less in there is another logging road that runs dead north quite a ways. if you ignore this road and continue west i am pretty sure this road crosses the ski trail and the after a ways opens up into a clearing. i am working from memory here but i know this area pretty well.”

“Hey guys...you can do the overnight, backpacking permit by email...Jamie emailed that she is sending me the permit...I think the trail pass is a self registration system...”

“I also arranged for my permit via email to Jamie. What a nice person!

She also verified for me that there will be firewood for sale at Pigeon Creek, self service. So we should be able to have a nice campfire.”

“wood and self service shouldn't be in the same sentence.”

“you should come and get some self service wood with us! :)”

“CAN'T :(

I'm forbiden to hike at all untill febuary.”

“oh crappity crap crap (got that from lizs)... i forgot about that. well come up with mike and say in the hotel and soak it int he hottub! hehe.

you aren't a cold weather camper if i recall (mike is the snowman). you would like need a -40 bag to survive the night.”

“HA! I used crapity crap crap LONG before lizs in my blog! HA!”

“i should have guessed!”

“And before anyone else claims it, I like Holy Crap Noodles!”

“hehe, i ain't never heard that before!”

“So, is there room for another on this trip?”

“Sure. Bring Forest too.”

“That was going to be my next question... Does anybody on this trip mind dogs? Forest would love to come along.”

“you would all be welcome, dogs too!

hey, don't forget to get a backpack camping permit. go back a day or two on this thread for the email address of the ranger. it is a free permit. everything else (parking sticker, pigeon creek campsite, trail pass to ski) you can self-register for at the park.
last edited: 12/22/07 6:55:27 PM”

“simer190,

I have a v-wedge sleeping bag addition you're welcome to use if you'd like to keep Forest in your bag with you at night.

My dog has long past, but I still have the wedge. If you can keep Forest warm, please bring him/ her. I love dogs!”

“Looks like lack of snow won't be a problem... those of us with sleds won't be able to use the trails and I don't pull a sled with skiis...

There is another shelter, much closer to the road with more flat spaces than Red Oak offers...I know it is on the trail southeast of Wildcat Trails Parking lot but I'm not sure if I parked there and hiked 1/2 mile southeast to the shelter or if I parked at the Smerkar Trails parking lot and hiked to it from there after doing that loop. I do know it was about a half mile from the road...I didn't camp there but passed it on the way to my car...I've been there enough times to have royally confused myself.

I used to have a map made by a fellow backpacker which showed the location of all the shelters which I cannot find...interestingly, none of the shelter show up on any of the forest maps...”

“So, skis are not required for this trip?

I could probably get my hands on a pair of skis, but I'm not sure that I'll want to have them along in my car. I'm trying to work it out in my mind, this trip will only be the first stop of a longer road trip, I don't want to have to carry skis with me the whole time.

And I don't know what a v-wedge is, and thank you for the offer. Forest (he) will be just fine without it. I think the coldest we've slept out under the stars was -13F and he didn't mind. If it was supposed to get too much colder, I might worry about it.
last edited: 12/23/07 6:58:40 AM”

“Mountainrunner and I just sent in for our permit... looks like we are in unless the snowstorm of the year happens that weekend! We will be snowshoeing it, no skis for us :)”

“Per the BRSF web site please note:

Pet Rules
All pets must be on a leash no longer than eight feet in length in campground areas. Please clean up after your pet and attend to it at all times. No pets are permitted in buildings and picnic areas, or on nature trails and cross-country ski trails.

I have seen dogs on the ski and nature trails more times than I would care to confress. Still, I wanted to make sure people knew what the rules were. There are lots of places you can hike with your dogs but the ski trails people will be skiing on is not one of them. I am not sure if this applies to the ATV trails (there are tons of these). I am certain it doesn not apply to the roads, old logging roads and railroad grades that criss-cross the area (if you can find them).

I'll have some suggestions regarding non-ski/nature trails in my next post.”

“If you don't plan to ski or you want to hike with your dogs then you can't go on the ski trails. The ski trails are groomed and closed to hiking in the winter. They are closed to pets year round.

I know there have been some questions about what to do for people that can't or don't want to ski or can't go on the ski trails because they have pets. So I want to provide an option, but of course what route to take/etc would fall entirely to the group of non-skiers.

I have created the map below as a reference. Basically on Saturday from Pigeon Creek campground turn right and drive north-east to Shale Rd. Make a left on Shale Rd and locate the two-track that intersects it. I believe there will be a gate and although there won't be a parking lot I recall there will be places to park. I am pretty sure Shale Rd will be plowed as it's a major road like Settlement Rd. Anyway, from here take the two-track north (a side-trip to Wildcat Mount would be very worthwhile) until it intersects King Rd (I think that is what it's called). Follow King Rd until it intersects Webber Flowage Rd. Webber Flowage Rd is NOT marked with a sign so be careful. It's a two-track and again I seriously doubt if it is plowed. Hike this north to Webber Flowage.

This is one heck of a great area if you can make it this far. I am pretty sure it's OK to hike out onto the flowage trails but I am not sure if pets are permitted. Anyway, the flowage would be fairly exposed but quite a dramatic site in winter. Just walking to the edge to take a look would be worthwhile. hiking around the flowage to the observation tower is my usual goal for this area but that is a lot of miles. we could take some time on Sunday Morning to visit the tower if we wish. It's only a few minutes from our camp on Saturday night.

I strongly recommend that a bailout shuttle be staged at the intersection of King Rd and Webber Flowage Rd. I am pretty sure King Rd is plowed and there are LOTS of places to pull off and park. You will have to download the map to compute the mileage (see the trip page) but out and back this would be a whopper of a day in the snow. A bailout vehicle would provide a lot of insurance.

OK, these are all just my suggestions. Those that want to hike with their dogs, snowshoe, or whatever have to decide what they want to do and get organized as a group.

We'll reconvene at the parking lot on Saturday afternoon to hike into camp. We'll have to decide where we want to camp and find a spot that is legal. I have quite a few ideas.

I can't say 100% for sure that snowshows will be required.


last edited: 12/23/07 10:44:09 AM”

“Re the bailout vehicle, staging it would probably involve driving as far north on Shale Rd and if possible parking by Webber Flowage Rd. King Rd, and I am working from a foggy memory here, is not paved and I don't know for sure if it's plowed. Actually I don't know that Shale Rd is plowed for that matter. Settlement Rd is paved and I would be shocked if it was not plowed. It might be worth a quick email to the ranger to ask.”

“Some additional Black River State Forest maps that I have on my computer, FWIW. Click on the maps to go to full size versions on my Webshots page. This one shows the ski trail difficulty, as well as the two shelters. The shelter on the southern loop is up a hill.

”

“Another version with the two trail shelters in green... and parking (at least summer parking) in red. The Smrekar parking area is at the bottom of the map:

”

“And some of the route Jimmy San posted above is on this map from a trip IN APRIL OF 2005... So it was not on snow!!!

***JUST POSTING TO SHOW THE AREA (and what we did on that hike, for the most part)***

JS, if you want a non-marked version of my map from NG TOPO software to mark, jot me a line.

”

“****JUST AN FYI: My maps are for reference. JIMMY SAN'S WILL BE THE OFFICIAL TRAIL MAP(S)!!!!!!!

I thought you might like a look at terrain... and I like to play with maps!

;-P”

“goody! lizzy saved the maps! now I have them...thank you!

I was right about that one shelter being closer to the parking lot than Red Oak...I was thinking we could cut our own trail to that one if Red Oak proved tricky...in winter, with lots of snow, trail blazing ain't so tough if you don't have lots of big ridges to climb...and, that closer shelter doesn't have any ridges, if I remember correctly...

at the same time, I think I once parked on Shale Road and hiked into Red Oak which was no distance...

camping at Pigeon is $9/night for residents...$11 for non-resies...
last edited: 12/23/07 12:05:54 PM”

“nice maps of the area, lizs!

i won't be hiking so i was only trying to offer suggestions. i don't want to plan a hiking segment and then not go on it! you clearly know the area well and have good maps.

i like the hike to the flowage which is why I suggested it. much of it is on roads so it's not bushwhacking and it would be (shuold be?) easy to stage a bailout vehicle. anyway, that was my thinking. i don't know if snowshoes will be required for the hike i posted but it can't hurt. the hike down webber flowage road is nice except in really hot weather... that road always seems to be in the blazing hot sun in the summer... all that hot sand!”

“Can anyone (pros?) identify this ski binding? I need to get a set of boots that will work with them. I can't even figure out how to open them up to figure out what kind of boot they use (assuming they open up).

”

“That are old-SNS automatic binding that you just step in. It only fits old SNS ski boots. They have not made that binding in years, and they have not made boots for that binding in years either, although you can buy older ones on ebay. Otherwise, they are not sold retail anywhere. What is your shoe size? At my cabin, I have a nearly complete set of boots in old SNS from size 36 to 44, & 46.”

“46 would be about right. I wear a US 12 for downhill ski boots (these I have!) And 11.5 for hiking boots and running shoes. May I borrow them for this trip (if you are going up north between now and then). I would bet that play in again sports will have them. They have lots of older stuff. Thanks for the ID pros. I was pretty sure it was SNS from Google but not sure and certainly I had no clue they were step in.

The guy that gave them to me (two pair plus poles) has boots and my size too but can't find them.
last edited: 12/23/07 6:39:21 PM”

“I will next be at my cabin on Sunday night, January 6, 2008. Too late to help you this trip. No size 46 offered on ebay at this time. Jimmy, remember that it is "old SNS", not the current "SNS". The boot must have the toe bar outside and visible in front of the boot, instead of the new style "SNS" where the toe bar is only visible when the boot is up-side-down.

Compare: old sns
http://cgi.ebay.com/SNS-SALOMON-CROSS-COUNTRY-SKI-BOOT-SIZE-43_W0QQitemZ280186068161QQihZ018QQcategoryZ36266QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting


New SNS:
http://cgi.ebay.com/USED-ONCE-Heierling-Cross-Country-Ski-Boots-size-45-SNS_W0QQitemZ110207434142QQihZ001QQcategoryZ36266QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

An alternate idea. Just buy new bindings and new boots for your old skis.”

“Got it. This was a huge help. Thanks!

The REI in town rents cross country skis and boots so if I cant find a pair of boots I'll rent a setup.
last edited: 12/23/07 7:09:34 PM”

“Do you think this is a picture of the boot in the binding?

”

“All right, dudes! I'm in cause Honeybunches tells me i HAVE TO BE IN! So, we'll see you in a couple of weeks :) Actually, very much looking forward to getting back out in the snow -- cannot wait to see everyone.”

“nice! look forward to meeting you.”

“Might be an "old SNS" boot in the binding in the picture. Can't be positive though.”

“this has been a huge help. i now understand how the binding works. it made no sense before. the metal bar on the boot just snaps in between the metal plate and the plastic tab. then to get out of the binding you push on the plastic tab with your ski pole and step out.”

“and mountainrunner, don't forget to send in for a backcountry camping permit. the instructions are in the thread to send this in via email. you might want to ask that they FAX you the permit if there isn't time to get it via USPS.”

“Got the permit covered, Jimmy. Thanks for the info :)”

“simer190,

The v-shaped wedge is a sleeping bag expander that zips into a mummy bag allowing a bit more room for a dog:


”

“Mata, regarding that closer shelter that is south of N. Settlement Road, near the parking area. When we did our hike, as I recall we went uphill to go by that shelter... although from what I can recall, the trail doesn't seem right as to how I remember going by it. Oh well...

Anyhoo... it is uphill a little ways. As I recall, to get to the Red Oak loop shelter, it was up and down and up and down, etc. a bunch of smaller, but often steep hills. Like you said, if only we could get to it off Shale Road, the shelter is right there.”

“i have not yet figured out how to get skiers and non-skiers to the same camp site. not being able to hike on the ski trails is really gumming up the plans. there are a lot of options, however, so it's not a big deal. there are a few old roads I know of that are easy to access from the parking area and there are lots of places one could camp. the area is laced with old railroad grades and roads.”

““i have not yet figured out how to get skiers and non-skiers to the same camp site. not being able to hike on the ski trails is really gumming up the plans. there are a lot of options, however, so it's not a big deal. there are a few old roads I know of that are easy to access from the parking area and there are lots of places one could camp. the area is laced with old railroad grades and roads.”
Jimmy san
12:43:13 AM
12/24/07

Any reason why the non-skiers couldn't just parallel the trail, snowshoeing and hiking just a few feet off the Trail.
If you have some attendee's that are proficient with GPS and or Map, they could bush-whack, cutting an azimuth to your Bivouc's.
Wish the trip was closer to home for me. Have a nice safe trip, a Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year everyone!
Free the heel the mind will follow and use the quads God gave ya! ( My tip for the New Year?) HA
last edited: 12/24/07 5:38:05 AM”

“I never have found it an issue snowshoeing off-side the ski trails but in some of the hiller places that could be a challenge if there are steep banks on both sides of the trail...the more snow we have, the easier it'll be...it'll all work out...it always does!

Goody, mountainrunner! I always love seeing you and I'll finally get to meet honeybunches!

That mile to Red Oak from the parking lot involves lots of short, steep up and downs...I have no memory for the topography around the closer shelter...”

“I am looking forward to meeting you Mataharihiker as well as the others!!! I also get to bust out my new snowshoes... got them last year and there was never enough snow to use them :)”

“Just a note - I don't know if this area has the ice that we have. But we were snowshoeing offtrail down a pretty steep hill last Sunday. It ended up being 2-3 inches of powdery snow on top of thick, glare ice. It was really hard to pound your foot hard enough to get the crampon-type thingee on the bottom to cut the snow - and even when it did, the rest of the shoe might come sliding around if not ultra careful.

We took off the snowshoes, trying to navigate and feeling more surefooted and less clumsy just walking in our regular boots. But, we ended up wiping out and then sliding down the hillside on our butts - which was hilarious fun.

I'm all for offtrail - I mean, it is winter and you have the ability with snowshoes.

The ice issue under fluffy snow is something to take note of. Of course, maybe we won't have new, fluffy snow. Sunken, older snow would help in gettin a gripe - quite literally. LOL!”

“I'm confirmed yes but will weenie out in the hotel unless overnight temps cooperate.

I'm with the snowshoeing faction, on or off trail is fine with me.”

“the hike i outlined is very, very flat. there might be a hill on King Rd heading to Webber Flowage Rd. This would be uphill but of a grade that would not present too great a challange in showshoes or boots.”

“No luck on the boots at Play it Again Sports. The had the type of boot but not in my size. Looks like I could replace my bindings with tabbed 3 hole bindings. Bindings ar 12 bucks and new boots just over 40.”