Winter camping, shelter door

“I was thinking about an improvement to my winter camping set up. I notice when I make a covered trench that its not very warm inside. Its about the same temp as outside. I have a great WM sleeping bag, so cold is OK with me, but with scouts they have less quality of a sleeping bag, and need some extra warmth. I was thinking that some kind of light door might help boost the temp a few degrees. I wonder how one of those pop out auto window coverings would work in that situation. Do other winter campers have a way to seal off the door of a snow shelter for heat retention ?”

“What about a trash bag?”

“A trash bag bacpac? Good gawd man you're gonna get someone killed with that advice!

Pizza box. Definitely a pizza box. LOL!

I would think the windshield thing would work. Most have mylar in them so that should cut the wind and it'd be stiff enough to stick in the snow somewhat.”

“idaho bob are you talking floor covering here or covering a entrance to a snow shelter ?

Up here in Ontario,we throw down straw as a insulator and then put our tents on top or in the case of a snow shelter it goes inside as part of the floor covering,with a tarp over top.

If your talking door entrance cover,wouldn`t a canvas tarp work as a flap,to keep the cold out ? It could be built into the shelter entrance and then packed down with snow to keep it in place .”

“how bout one of those bubble wrap pool cover things cut up?”

“What kind of shelter? I usually use a block of snow or two or my backpack.

In a snow cave or Quinzee (?) your sleeping platform should be higher than the entrance.”

“I'm talking about partially covering the entrance of a covered snow trench. We usually don't have the snow depth to make the sleeping platform higher than the entrance. A canvas tarp would be heavy. Bubble wrap might work, and would offer some visibility also. Are there ever any problems with suffocation in a snow cave blocked with plastic? I've never heard of any problems.”

“I don't think it's a good idea, Idaho Bob. There was an article in Explore magazine about the tragic death of a mountaineering couple when their snow trench collapsed. They never got out because of being debilitated by carbon monoxide poisoning.

Can you do Quinseys? They're fun for the kids to make as well as being a great winter shelter.

Good luck,

Doug”

“I can't imagine being hurt much by the collapse of a snow trench. Only a few blocks would fall in, one would think, and they are not very heavy. Even if your were suffering CO poisoning, at that point you would be in fresh air, and have a 6 inch block of snow on your head, at worst. Seems like no big deal to me.

Quinzees are about 4 times as much work as a snow trench. I can make a snow trench in about half an hour, and be fairly dry when I'm done. I'm soaked from sweat after making a quinzee, and its pretty much a two man job and a lot of work.

The kind of snow trench I'm talking about is to stamp down the snow with skis or snowshoes, then after about an hour of waiting, but a trench and set the snow blocks to either side of the trench. After about 10 feet of trench, you lean two large blocks together over the tranch to start a peaked roof, and move back up the trench forming the roof in this way. You need deep snow to do it, but its pretty efficient. Once the trench is covered, you can shave snow off the sides to make the bottom wider. Here are some pictures of a trench like this. http://patentpending.blogs.com/patent_pending_blog/2006/02/banner_ridge_wi.html

Maybe to be safe one should not make the door totally air proof. Any other experiences or knowledge of air problems in a snow shelter?”

“use a silnylon tarp and snow to make your door...

I don't camp in the snow very much, but I went to "Cool School" when I was on Active Duty, and these shelters DO work, and we used parachute cloth and snow to block the doors...

Article:

The Thermal Shelter. 31The thermal shelter was developed by the U.S. Air Force's "COOL" School which teaches pilots and air crews how to survive in arctic-like conditions after ejection or crash landings. The thermal shelter, designed to capture and retain heat emitted from the earth, provides the best protection from the elements during periods of extreme cold.

The thermal shelter is primarily designed as a one- to two-person shelter; however, a larger shelter can be constructed to accommodate a small team or squad.

In forested areas, a wooden framework is built, covered with a parachute, ponchos, or evergreen boughs, and covered with eight to ten inches of snow for insulation.

In alpine regions and other barren conditions, the shelter can be constructed by piling up a large mound of snow and then digging into it. Even light powder snow will solidify enough once it is disturbed and shoveled into a mound. This variation, similar in appearance to a snow cave, is referred to as a molded-dome shelter or "Quingy Hooch."

The key to both construction methods is to remove the snow from the ground surface, exposing the frozen soil which will then radiate thermal energy into the shelter.

The doorway is best sealed by filling a trash bag or other large sack with loose snow and form-fitting it into the door opening. A rucksack or other bulky item can also be used.

The shelter actually becomes more efficient as the outside temperature decreases. At -40 F outside, a temperature of +5 F has been recorded inside. This was achieved solely by the shelter's capacity to retain emitted thermal radiation; there was no additional heat provided by personnel, stoves, or candles.

If a candle or stove is used in the shelter, the door must be cracked open or a ventilation hole must be added during construction (as in the snow cave, below). Keep a ski pole or tree limb inside and periodically check vent holes.

In addition to the benefits gained during survival situations, the shelter can also be built to enhance forward fighting positions, surveillance posts, and other static positions away from base camps. The shelter will increase soldier comfort and lengthen the time a team can remain at perimeter positions.

Because the conditions within the shelter are reasonably comfortable without the use of additional heat sources, thermal shelters built for static positions may provide an excellent alternative to using heated shelters when detection by infrared and other thermal devices must be avoided.

”

“cool, thanks ST!”

“LNT...
Fuego!”

“get a roll up thermal ground cover, the ones people use as sleeping bags, you could keep it up for easy access, and down for night insulation.”