What do you wear to bed in the cold?

“are you sinching it up to reduce draft?”

“I might add that a good pad is a must. Last week I was in a Western Mountaineering 25 degree bag and it was 10 degrees. I was warm except I woke up once with a foot like an icicle. It had come off the pad.”

“An empty bladder helps keep you warmer too. The body uses quite a bit of energy keeping all that pee warm. I know it's painful getting out of the bag in winter to go whiz, but you'll be warmer immediately.”

“


A 13lb, fury guy I would prefer to take with me into the bag.”

“Euro, that cat looks mean. He might try to kill you in your sleep”

“don't overestimate the effects of drafts.

If you don't have a baffle around your shoulder/neck area . . .everytime you roll over you are letting in a gush of cold air. Then you have to warm it up all over again.

Before I got my new northface bag, I used to have my fleece jacket tucked around my shoulders to prevent drafts.



I think, (and know that I have read) that the sleep naked thing is a myth.

Insulating layers are insulating layers. You stay insulated by trapping air between two layers and warming it with your body heat.

You clearly don't want to sweat, get wet, then cool down and chill . . . so don't overdo the layers. But wearing some wool/poly pro clean and DRY base layers makes good sense.


I used to use my Sierra Designs Wild Bill (20 degrees) down to about 0. It got a wee bit uncomfortable (open shelter, no tent thermarest under a closed cell foam pad).

My 0 degree TNF is great.

I would:
1. Check your sweating

2. Check your drafts (drafting onto a sweat is a surefire chill)

3. Sleep on a closed cell pad. (otherwise you need to warm up the air in the thermarest .. .it conducts more heat/cold than the foam pads).”

“He's an old gentleman. He always looks somewhat disgruntled when photographed.”

“he'll keep the mice out of your sack.....”

“Trail dogs can keep you toasty at night. At least that's what I've heard. I didn't winter camp when I had my good trail dog. The beast I've got now is too dang big and too lazy to be a good trail dog. He likes the walk but then heads for the car after about an hour or so. And at 100+ pounds he'd need his own sleeping bag. We wouldn't be able to share.”

“He might pull the feathers out of my bag so.”

“I think, (and know that I have read) that the sleep naked thing is a myth.

It depends on how you fit into your bag. If you're big in your bag, you'll reduce the loft and get colder. If your bag is loose around you, you can add layers provided you don't change the loft.

I'm big and even in a large bag it's a tight fit, and I know XL is big (hubba hubba). :-)”

“I don't think a dog will help unless you're both in the bag with room to spare.”

“When I was younger I read an article that suggested you sit on your sleeping bag naked for a few minutes and then put on the fresh clothes. I always thought "What a stupid idea." But it seems to have merit. It allows the moisture from to your body to dissipate and the fresh clothes are dry. I still prefer sleeping with just a pair of underwear on. I have woken up at night with my feet being horrible cold. I'll slip my socks off and hunker down into my bag and pretty soon I am toasty again. One thing I will do that I've read you are not supposed to is to breathe down into my bag. Presumably it can introduce moisture into the bag and reduce it's warmth. I have a synth bag so I am not sure it still applies.”

“This is the "sleep Naked" discussion that I remember from the "gear guy" at Outside mag.com

June 12, 2003


Is it true that it's warmer to sleep naked?


I've recently been in some heated discussions with fellow campers over whether it's warmer to sleep naked in a sleeping bag or to wear some loose clothes. Logic would seem to suggest that more layers equal more insulation, but a surprising number of acquaintances swear they're warmer naked. Can you give me a definitive answer?

� Rob
Tunbridge Wells, England






Of course I can give you a definitive answer, which is: The idea that sleeping naked will make you warmer is ridiculous. To suppose otherwise is to suppose that you'll also be warmer if you wear a down jacket without wearing anything underneath. Have your friends tried that recently? Moreover, swearing "they're warmer naked" indicates they have done empirical testing, involving sleeping in identical sleeping bags in identical conditions, dressed and undressed, while various thermal probes have been inserted into every opening in their bodies. Have they?

This question comes up moderately often, and I'd love to be able to trace its provenance; it was something I first heard 20 years ago. The supposed logic is that if you are naked, the body heat gets into the bag's insulation and surrounds you with a warm bubble. But that also means that same heat is escaping into the insulation, forcing your body to churn out more and more warmth to replace it.

In short, the greater the 'R'-value�the measure of insulation's ability to, well, insulate�the better the insulation. No surprises there. So wear as much as you think is reasonable. That might mean long underwear, plus a fleece jacket or down jacket, plus hat, gloves, socks, and so on. In fact, you can save weight by wearing clothes to bed, because you can carry a lighter sleeping bag than you might otherwise take, then supplement its insulation with clothing you're packing along anyway.”

“I've snuggled down in my TNF Cats Meow bag and breathed all over it and I stayed quite toasty. However, I DO NOT do that with my down bag.....

In fact, if its not cold enough outside, I have real issues with condensation buidling up and making the top of my bag wet. I was plenty warm...but damn if it didn't make me nervous.”

“Here is some follow up on insulating layers/pads etc.


Will wearing too many clothes affect a sleeping bag's insulation level?


To revisit the sleeping naked debate [June 12, 2003: "Is it true that it's warmer to sleep naked?"], I'd like to point out that while sleeping with a lot of clothes on should generally be warmer than sleeping naked, too much clothing might compress the sleeping bag's insulation and somewhat impede blood flow, resulting in a colder sleep. Wouldn't you agree?

� Stephen
Calgary, Alberta



Got your own gear question?

Express yourself in the Gear Forum



This issue has resulted in a flood of mail, so it's worth re-visiting. Among the observations: clothing traps body moisture, damp clothes chill you, so sleeping naked is warmer. To which I say, bunk. The main goal in any sleep setup is to maximize insulation, with extra clothing used to supplement the bag insulation.

But, Stephen here raises an interesting issue. Yes, it is theoretically possible to wear so much that you compress the sleeping bag's insulation. On the other hand, bags are differentially cut, meaning the inner shell is smaller than the outer shell, making it difficult to fully squeeze the two together. Still, it could be done. I'd also opine that if you're wearing THAT much clothing, you're also constricting your own blood flow, which of course is not good either.

I usually apply the same layering principles in bed that I do when hiking. In cool temps, I'll start with a light layer of long underwear. If that isn't enough, I'll add a vest, light sweater, or expedition-weight long underwear. Hat and gloves and warmer socks, too�cold feet, hands, and head account for lots of uncomfortable nights. If I'm still cold, chances are I also have a down parka because I anticipated below-freezing weather. That goes on last, or over the bag itself.

If I'm still cold, well, dawn will come eventually. Or, you can always share a sleeping bag at that point. But honestly, I'd rather suffer a little than share a bag with most of the people I end up in the woods withB

Finally, keep in mind that what is under you makes a HUGE difference. In cold weather, it's often more economical, weight-wise, to carry an extra one-pound sleeping pad rather than a warmer sleeping bag or more clothes.”

“Whoever wrote that is a hypocrite if he hasn't inserted various thermal probes in every opening in his body to test his theory. Did he just make fun of himself, or did he actually do that? You decide.

His argument ignores certain variables, namely effectiveness of the sleeping bag due to loft issues, and ability of your body to wick moisture, with and without clothes on. If he wants to try to come across as all scientific, he should have mentioned more than one variable, dontcha think?

Personally, I've slept both ways and was warmer without the clothes. ymmv

[edit] re: lee's first of two posts
last edited: 1/28/08 2:03:57 PM”

“Lee, I agree, sleeping naked won't allow you to sleep warmer. Neither will sleeping with multiple layers.”

“I have no dog in this fight.


I do most of my packing on the shoulders of the season or in the winter.

When I am out overnight is is normal 20 or somewhere below.

I always wear something, but that is my preference.

I tend to like a smartwool type long underwear and a turtleneck type shirt (as well as a hat, and if needed, wool socks).

The turtleneck goes a long way towards dealing with drafts.”

“I have spent many subfreezing nights in a poorly rated 35deg bag, and have only had one or two nights that were genuinely uncomfortable, and noe that were actually cold enough to worry me. Most of the time I sleep in long johns, clean socks and a fleece pull over with a hat on. If it's really cold, I will put my parka over top of the bag with my feet in the hood, and pull the bottom up towards me. My hat is usually a rolled up ski mask, so I can pull that down too. Another option that I have yet to try but am sure would be very effective is a hot water bottle. I do definitely second the closed cell pad though. Two if it's really cold. Something no one has mentioned yet is their tent. Your tent is good for 10 or 15 degrees usually once you have been in it a while, and the smaller the better for this too.”

“Another way to look at this ... Ask yourself, which is warmer, gloves or mittens?

Here is an article, XL, about winter bag. It also briefly mentions what I said about bag size, loft, and clothing.

http://www.adventuresportsonline.com/sleepingcold.htm
last edited: 1/28/08 2:44:45 PM”

“Something no one has mentioned yet is their tent. - mg

You must have me on ignore. LOL”

“I know of at least one person who boils water and fills a nalgene bottle with it. This bottle gets stuffed into the foot end of their sleeping bag.”

“Long Johns, Sweats, Camo's, coat, 3 pair of socks, hat...

This is for sub-zero (F) temps...

If it's in the 20's (or even mid to upper teens)... No coat...

ALSO!!! A little tip: It really sucks bigtime to get up and go pee when it's -8F ... and when you do, you lose a large volume of WARM liquid... this can drastically lower your core temperature...

I've found that I can take a plastic container with appropriate sealing lid... STAY in the tent (warmer there)... and KEEP that heat. Put the container down in the bag with you... It sounds whacky, but it'll help compensate for the lost heat...

:)”

“Something no one has mentioned yet is their tent. - mg

You must have me on ignore. LOL�
Sarge
3:43:58 PM
1/28/08

I must have over looked it. Sorry.
I have no one on ignore. Though I ignore many posts.”

“ALSO!!! A little tip: It really sucks bigtime to get up and go pee when it's -8F ... and when you do, you lose a large volume of WARM liquid... this can drastically lower your core temperature...

This is incorrect as has already been pointed out. Having extra liquid, e.g. a full bladder, makes you COLDER as your body has to expend energy keeping all of that liquid up to body temp. Your efforts are better spent expelling that liquid ASAP. You will sleep warmer.

Also, scarf down some food before you go to bed. It'll help keep the BTUs up.”

“I have often found myself catching a chill after expressing my bladder...

My body has already expended the energy to warm that fluid in the first place, I can't see how throwing away all that energy is going to help. Seems like a waste of perfectly good heat energy to me.

I don't mind expelling it, I just prefer to keep it close and cozy...”

“icky said he stays in the tent. You get colder in -8F than you do peeing in your tent.”

“My point being, you stay colder overall by not peeing when you have to.
last edited: 1/28/08 3:13:42 PM”

“You're right if you mean you're colder than if your pee magically wasn't there, but not necessarily if the outside temperature is cold when you go out in it.”

“Whatever. All I know is I sleep warmer after I take a leak, regardless of the temp outside or if I gotta go out and take a piss in howling fuggin snowstorm.”

“It's been my experience that a fourteen pound terrier adds prolly 14 degrees to the relative temperature. I have a 75 pound lab on standby for exceptionally cold nights...”

“I really have to question this whole pee/temperature relationship.

For starters, any pee that's in your bladder is already body temperature.

Thermodynamics says: Heat goes from a warm place to a cold place.

Your urine is not colder than your body. It's the same temperature... So your body is not losing any heat to your urine... Any energy spent to produce the urine in the first place has already made it body temperature. The energy is already spent.

So, to claim that your body wastes energy warming up that urine... I don't buy it.

Also... It is indeed a good idea to keep your expressed urine with you. As I mentioned, heat goes from a warm place to a cold place... There is a lot of energy in that waste and it is radiating. It can cool off very quickly and evaporate into the air if you just pee it onto the ground... OR, it can radiate more slowly into your sleeping bag... Using the energy instead of wasting it.

Regarding the food idea. I have mixed thoughts about that. When you put food in your stomach, your body sends more blood to the stomach... This takes blood from your extremeties... this could make your fingers and toes a little colder...

However, there are calories being burned to process that food... and this could increase your core temperature.. So... Overall warmer core temp VS. cold toes... I'd probably not eat before sleep... but that's just me :)”

“Intersting stuff. I never thought about peeing or not peeing. If I tried to hold it in, I'd not sleep just as much as if I was too cold. A pee bottle works for me and I've learned to just roll over on my side while still in the sleeping bag. I've got a marmot helium 20 degree bag and my most often used tent is a tarptent. With the tarptent, condensation has never been an issue. If it's exceptionally cold, 10F or colder, I wear my thermals, and a bacalava (sp?), which protects my poor bald head and my neck. My feet are protected by smart wool socks. Usually, somewhere in the middle of the night, I begin to roast and generally strip down to a t-shirt and shorts. I have worn my western mountaineering flight jacket to bed, but it usually stays on for only 10 minutes.”

““I prefer wearing a 6'0"ish, fury guy to bed. It is the best method for staying warm.
last edited: 1/28/08 11:55:25 AM”
sweetpeastu
11:54:44 AM
1/28/08

“are you sinching it up to reduce draft?”
GatherNoMoss
11:59:30 AM
1/28/08

Is that what the young people are calling it these days?

I'm a fairly warm sleeper. I've woke up to see ice on the tent condensation and been fine, wearing nothing but underwear and a shirt.”

“However, there are calories being burned to process that food... and this could increase your core temperature.. So... Overall warmer core temp VS. cold toes.

One of the theories of layering is that you can somewhat overheat your torso and wear lighter more flexible gloves because the heat from your torso is driven to your extremities. Note the above migration of heat from warm area to cold area. Unless of course one suffers from Reynauld's syndrome in which case you might want to stay hone anyway. Overheating the core.. within reason has a benefit. Food before bed might make sense. I need to eat before sleeping anyway to assure I wake up in the morning and not slip into insulin shock.
last edited: 1/28/08 4:16:32 PM”

“Yeah... I rarely get cold hands... my toes sometimes...

Man!! I LOVE winter camping! :)

Oh! and be sure to drink plenty of 'antifreeze' ;)

[not really smart to drink a lot in the cold... just bein' a smartass :p ]
last edited: 1/28/08 4:25:12 PM”

“If your bag is not keeping you warm compared to it's rating, consider the following:

1. Poor insulation between the bag and the ground. If you are using a foam filled or aircore mat, consider adding a thin closed-cell foam pad on top (5 ounces).

2. Too much air in your bag to keep warm with body heat. Bunch up the bag around your shoulders to reduce as much empty space as you can. Adding a silk bag liner can help here.

3. Thin spots in the insulation. At home, hold up your bag to a bright light and look for thin spots. Shift the down or other insulation around to fill in gaps.

4. Make sure you don't have any drafts coming in at the top.

Regarding the other issues, here is my take:

1. Clean your body so your pores work well.
2. Clean dry thermal underwear and clean pair of socks. Wool or fleece cap.
3. Keep bladder empty. You have to waste calories to keep the urine at body temp.
4. Eat and drink something right before bed. Body chemical reactions to digest the food will create heat.
5. Fill nalgene bottle with hot water and put in a sock or down bootie. One at the foot and one between your legs near arteries will help for hours.
6. Sleep in a tent that is relatively free of condensation dripping on you.

The #1 thing I would check is the ground insulation. Where your body squishes the bag under you there is no real insulation power.”

“Last month I slept in Wise shelter and the temps got down to the low 20's. I had my Kelty 15 degree bag with a homemade fleece liner. I wore thermals (top and bottom), PJ bottoms, long sleeve tshirt, socks and liners, hat, gloves and a fleece jacket and then used a warming pack. All the clothes were dry. I was waaaaay too hot. By morning all hat taken the fleece off as well as the gloves and got out of my fleece liner. I was nice and warm even then.”

“Fleece socks, wind pants, fleece, and maybe a hat.”

“WOW this is great....Phil I take a couple of the hand warmers with me and use them at night. My main problem was that some of the parents on the trip were "less than prepared" and My handwarmers went to help them.

AS for being a "BIG guy" I am 5'8" and weigh 185 lbs.....but I did successfully complete the "Sarge teaches you to lick your eyebrows" class....and BOY WAS IT FUN!!!”

“...I'll bet the girls enjoyed it too.....”

“Yup, XL licked their eyebrows too.”

“it wasn't their eyebrows they were......aw, for get it.............”

“Poor nimble...thats just contrary to his Victorian Upbringing....”

“I thought nimble was a utopian?......”

“The comment was about what XL would do, not me:)”

“thats right, you're the one fixated on curly hairs..............”

“but I did successfully complete the "Sarge teaches you to lick your eyebrows" class....and BOY WAS IT FUN!!!

What the hell is that?”

“Phil... I have to disagree with this

3. Keep bladder empty. You have to waste calories to keep the urine at body temp.

It just doesn't make sense.

Your body doesn't have to burn calories to KEEP the urine at body temp... This implies that the urine is:
A) Colder than the body around it
or
B) Is losing it's heat to the body around it.

It can not be A. By the time the urine fills the bladder, it is already body temperature.

If it's B, then, according to the rules of thermodynamics, this means that your body (around your bladder) is colder than your urine... therefore the heat of the urine is passing into your body... i.e. your body is benefiting from having the urine there...

I don't think it's B either.

There is no reason your body would be burning calories to warm the urine. The urine is not cold and it is not losing the heat it already has...

At this point, I gotta ask you for a LINK to back up this claim.”