Lightweight Backpacking

“Could you guys tell me where i could get some lightweight gear for cheap, and if anybody does it, are there anythings i should consider before going light?”

“All of the gear stores have it, you just need to watch your weight, lol. Just do go fragile.”

“If you are just starting out purchasing your gear, and you want to go light, start by purchasing the lightest gear you can afford. The big four (pack, bag, pad and tent) are your heaviest pieces of gear. You should purchase the bag, pad and tent first and your pack last. You want to be sure that your lightweight pack is sufficent to hold the weight of your gear. If you purchase the pack first, you are limiting yourself in the weight of your gear choices.

I am not exactly sure what you consider to be cheap. But you might want to try some of the discount on-line retailers (Sierra Trading Post, Rei-Outlet, Backpackingdeals, etc.), as well as e-bay and private sales. People over at whiteblaze.net sell gear often and you can pick up some good deals that way. There's also a website devoted to lightweight weenies, but I can't remember the name right now.

Good luck to you.”

“Wow, that's a deep question.
I have picked up a lot of gear from ebay and a few other on-line companies; but I make sure exactly what it is, I usually do a lot of reading and researching on the different types of gear and check it out in person before I order it over the net. REI is a good company that almost every hiker has used at sometime.
It also depends on what type of hiker you are. The light-weight gear is usually not as durable as the heavier gear. For example, I bought a Gregory Shasta backpack in '99 and it weighs about 7 lbs,I have carried almost 60 lbs in it a few times and today it still looks like new. When I hiked the A.T. in 06, I bought a lightweight pack (weighed about 2.5-3 lbs) and it was trashed by the time I got to New Hampshire. Also it depends on the luxuries you may want to keep or leave behind. My pack used to average about 45-50 lbs when I first started backpacking, but now I average 30-35 if my wife goes with me, and about 28 if I solo.There are still things that I just have to have, like a water filter. A lot of hikers have went to the tablets or sterile pen, but I like my water to be clear. I could lose almost a pound if I switched over.
I have learned over the years what I can do without, but for most hikers it's a learn as you go process. That's JMHO.”

“Wal mart and common sense.”

“He said lightweight Jim.”

“yeah. there are people that have gone lightweight almost all from wal-mart and home made gear. it doesn't have to be expensive. that plus for backpack trips under a few days you actually need shocking little. people generally overpack. i bet you can do this and have a lightweight rig for 200 bucks.

let's have some fun... here is a gear list. let's fill it out. i'll make some suggestions. let's see how cheap we can get it and still be light.

Packing
Eureka! Getaway 3900 Backpack (Wal*Mart, 3.5 lbs, 60 bucks)
"Stuff sacks" (leave them at home. waste of money. use grocery bags, wad stuff in pack which uses space more efficently... free)
Garbage bag for pack cover (basically free)

Cooking
Wal*Mart Grease Pot (darn cheap pot with lid for boiling water)
Pepsi Can Alcohol Stove (DIY, free)
Pop bottle for denatured alcohol (free)
Bic lighter (small, basically free if you steal one from a smoker)
Bandanna (pot holder/etc... prolly have one laying around the house or steal from a biker)
Foil windscreen (basically free, pilfer from kitchen)

Sleeping
Wenzel Santa Fe 20-Degree Mummy Sleeping Bag (Wal*Mart, 4 lbs, 20 bucks)
Wal*Mart blue foam closed-cell sleeping pad (cheap)
Roll clothes up as pillow

Shelter
Tarp (DIY... Wal*Mart sells silnylon for $1/yard or use Tyvek... lots of web sites on how to do this)
Groundcloth (Tyvek or Wal*Mart silnylon)
Stakes
Lines

-or-

Slumberjack� No Fly Zone Solo Bivy: 20 bucks at pro*bass shops

-or-

Bass Pro Shops� Hiker/Biker Tent for one (30 bucks)


Essentials
Chair: sit on wal*mart sleeping pad and leave the chair at home.
Water Bottles (2 1l pop bottles, free)
Bass Pro Shops� cyclops headlamp (Pro*bass shop, 1 oz, 10 bucks)
Bug dope (if needed)
First Aid Kit (basically free... pilfer band aids, ibuprofen, Imodium, etc from medicine chest)
Plastic spoon (free...look around)
Iodine water treatment (potable aqua... 7 bucks for a bottle)
Fire starter (baggie of cotton balls dipped in Vaseline)
Raincoat: DriDucks (14 bucks for full rainsuit that is waterproof/breathable)
SMALL knife

Optional
Trekking poles (Wal*Mart)
Non-cotton clothes (Wal*Mart "Starter" brand turns out to be very cheap and pretty darn good... I use the stuff all the time now)
Shoes (Wal*Mart sells trail runners. i have bought at least two pair and used them and while they lack "technical feature" they are more than enough for most casual backpackers)
Socks (Again, "Starter" brand synthetic socks are outstanding... i use them running)


I don't know what base weight would be but I am betting around 10 lbs. with that packs suspension (which is way overkill) i am betting it would be a comfortable ride.
last edited: 12/16/07 7:52:21 AM”

“oh and i am not endorsing that sleeping bag. you get what you pay for in the world of sleeping bags. my advise here is standard for someone putting together kit: sink some bucks into a good sleeping bag and it will keep you warm a lifetime.

better still, DYI and make a quilt. the materials are cheap and the results are generally excellent. you'll be just as warm as in a sleeping bag and actually be more comfortable.”

“The best trick is to go to a real expensive gear store and try everything so you know what you are looking for. Then try to find it cheap on the internet.

I agree that somethings are worth the extra weight, particularly the backpack. "Lightweight" backpacks are often designed assuming you won't put more than about 20 lbs in them - they'll tear into your shoulders with more. I've gotten some useful stuff at Wal Mart. My old pot set is from Walmart and is lighter than the Coleman set it replaced.

You would prolly like my $100 Eureka Spitfire tent. You won't find a nice light down sleeping bag for $100 new, but it would be worth the extra money.

Nice list Jimmy. You can always take pride in knowing you got away with using cheap stuff.
last edited: 12/16/07 7:54:17 AM”

“ok, so i feel really rough about putting up a $20 sleeping bag knowing someone would sleep cold in it. i would not sleep in that 20 degree bag in temps colder than 40-45. the fill quality is just too low.

you can get a good sleeping bag for not a lot of money, but it will cost more than 20 bucks and prolly be the most expensive item in your kit.

NEVER PAY FULL PRICE. Check REI outlet and campmor hot deals for bargans.

Examples:

Kelty Light Year 25� Ultralight Down Mummy Sleeping Bag Regular - $99 (campmor)

Kelty Cosmic 35� Thermolite� Quallo Mummy Sleeping Bag - Regular - $50 (campmor)

Marmot Trestles 30� Mummy Sleeping Bag Regular - $60 (campmor)

Slumberjack Saguaro +45 Sleeping Bag - $50 (rei outlet)

Kelty Chinook +0 Sleeping Bag - $70 (rei outlet)

lots of examples of quality bags at fair prices. i would pay a little extra over that $20 bag any day for one of these bags.
last edited: 12/16/07 8:05:58 AM”

“Jimmy San knows his lightweight backpacking. He even said he has something called an "anal spread sheet". I don't even know what "anal spread" is or why you would need a sheet to keep track of it but it does show dedication anyhow.”

“i only use cruelty-free anal spread and one should -always- use a sheet for protection.”

“the walmart grease pot is another conditional item. i would boil water in it any day but if you cook food in it note that the lip of the pot is rolled inwards so food can get caught in it and spoil. IF you cook food in it make sure you clean out this area of the pot really well. you can easily cut off this part of the pot and file down the edge (the lid will still fit).

my favorite water boiler is a two-cup measuring cup ("flour scoop") that i got at a flea market for like 50 cents. a tin foil lid/windscreen and red-bull energy drink stove and the setup is hard to beat for weight to performance.”

“I�ve been lurking for a while and have a serious question. Please don�t accuse me of trolling (whatever that means) I am sincerely interested in understanding something.

Could someone please explain this whole ultralight backpacking craze? Maybe I just don�t �get it� but it seems to me that a lot of the advice from the ultralight crowd is misguided at best and potentially dangerous. Going out without proper shelter, sufficient clothing, too little food and no first aid equipment is a recipe for disaster. Telling people to drink untreated water is just plain stupid.

I routinely carry 50-60 pound packs and think it allows me to enjoy the backwoods more and ensures my safety. I sleep warm and dry, eat great food and am ready for any kind of weather. If I get stuck out there for a few extra days, it�s no big deal because I have plenty of everything. It may weigh a few ounces more, but my Gore-tex rain gear will stave off a hurricane � something you can�t say about an umbrella. Why eat food that wouldn�t satisfy Calista Flockhart just to save a few ounces on a real stove? Can you really expect to react to an emergency when you are malnourished?

Most of the ultralight whackos that I�ve run across are... how do I put this... kind of frail looking. It seems to me that instead of obsessing with their pack weight, they�d be better off hitting the gym and adding a few pounds. That way, they would be more able carry proper gear and wouldn�t be risking, not only their own lives, but those of the search and rescue people who are invariably called upon to bail out these people.

I think some of the appeal of ultralight may be that it is also ultra-cheap. Here I think these people would be better off car camping or backyard camping until they can save enough money for real gear. With the right gear, they wouldn�t have to high tail it when the weather turns nasty but could comfortably handle whatever nature has to offer.

Keeping some of these ill-equipped people out of the backcountry would enable those who can actually afford to undertake this activity to enjoy less crowded conditions and have less rules and restrictions. Would it be undesirable to station rangers at trailheads to inspect people�s packs and deny access to those lacking proper gear?”

“Bic lighter - Jimmy san

*pause*

um

*pause*

uh, ... isn't that cheating?

That's a slippery slope...

Next will be a portable t.v. ... or wet-naps!!

*shudder*”

“as far as i am concerned it's best practice to always carry a lighter in your kit... specifically a BIC lighter.”

“Thanks Jimmy, your the man.”

“I thought you were da man!?”

“Cheap is seldom good, good is seldom cheap.”

“Mountain Roamer: maybe you young and strong as a horse, so you don't really need ultralight. However if you were to do a thru hike even you would have to think about going as light as possible. Plus there are varying degrees of ultralight, and few ultralight advocates go so far as to carry an umbrella and no rain gear, or no filter. A bottle of Aqua Mira weighs only ounces and works great as an alternative to filters.

You can go with the lightest gear possible and still have everything you need for safety: rain gear, tent, first aid kit, warm clothing. Its just that you have the lightest version of everything. If its a summer trip, a 1.5 pound down bag is sufficient. One change of clothes doesn't affect safety, you just have to wash it or accept stinking a little.

The alcohol stove thing I have not totally convinced is so great, but others swear by them. A little Snow Peak stove with a 4 oz canister is pretty darn light, and heats water way faster then the alcohol stove. But you can bake with the alcohol stove.

I've carried plenty of heavy packs, but my pack now tends to be less than 35 pounds and I'd like it to be 25. That is because of back problems. I've got bad news for you, as strong as you are now, you will likely have knee or back problems like the rest of us, and then if not before ultralight will start making sense.”

“WalMart has sil-nylon????? now ya gone and corrupted me..............”

“Mountain Roamer is my all time favorite troll.”

“Jimmysan you are a geniuos thanks that advice up there^ a little ways is going to be perfect for me until I get money to buy the good stuff thanks man.”

“it's a fallacy that you need lots of expensive stuff to go backpacking and have fun.

Look at some examples:

MSR Waterworks EX filter: $120
AquaMira kit: $14
Portable Aqua: $7
Boiling (pasturization): Depends on stove but if you have to boil the water to prepare the food then it's basically free.

JetBoil PCS: $90 + butane fuel
MSR PocketRocket Stove: $40 + butane fuel
Alcohol stove: Free stove and totally cheap fuel

Mountain House Meal: $5-7 bucks/meal
Enertia Trail Foods Meal: $4-$5/meal
Home-made means using sarbar's cookbook: damn cheap (and most meals are darn good)

All of these options will treat water, boil it, and prepare a meal. The most expensive option is $220 for a weekend (two meals). The least expensive is under 20 bucks...

This is what I love about backpacking. There is no right way or wrong way. You can approach the problem through any number of different vectors and still have a valid solution. We enjoy a hobby of diverse ideas and opinions... next time you hike with a group take the time to look at what other people do and humbly take a few tricks back home with you for your next trip.”

“I actually went over a month with a little 2oz. drip bottle of iodine and still had some left over. oh yeah and that was providing drinking and cooking water for me and the other ten people in our group that were working ten hour day's in the blazing sun.
last edited: 12/16/07 12:26:49 PM”

“i admit that i own a jetboil and love the thing. i take it on climbing trips. i find i climb all day and get so into it i forget to eat lunch. so when it's time to EAT it's a luxury to have instant hot water with totally zero fuss. i also like making hot chocolate in it... instant gratification. the neoprene insulated mug keeps the hot chocolate hot for a long time and really warms me up. last time i used it i had quite a concotion going with hot chocolate, some of that poison eggnog meangreen made, some crown royal, and some other stuff... it was gooood.”

““i only use cruelty-free anal spread and one should -always- use a sheet for protection.”

And the crackers?”

“Polar Pure is another water option.

My first backpack in the Smokies I used only a safety tubetent for shelter. $5 and maybe 5oz for weight.”

“i don't know what the crackers use. they aren't the sharpest tool in the southern part of the garage so it could be about anything.”

“yeah, polarpure is light, cheap, and effective indeed. i think crash is still using the same bottle of the stuff when he introduced me to polarpure well over a year ago.”

“Hell I might as well give him my stuff... I never use it any more.”

“i applaud anyone that takes the time to step back, be analytical about a situation, and look for ways to approach a challenge in a fashion that is better/different/more efficient. this is how the better mouse traps you keep hearing about are invented. innovation is a great thing, especially when you seek to approach a challenge without buying your way into the game.

i went into the super-ultralight domain with a lot of trepidation. my really big fear was being wet and cold (a quite reasonable dread). my first two cold and wet trips were tough but i realized that i fared as well if not better than everyone else... with an 8 lb backpack. the hurdle i had to cross wasn't in my pack... it was in my head.

as a rock climber i know that fear, lack of confidence, and uncertainty are huge power sinks. they rob us of energy and prevent us from approaching a challenge with our full focus and attention. in short we rob ourselves of the certainty of success that comes from knowing, trusting, and following the process. i am not afraid of going into the backcountry with an 8lb kit any more than i am afraid of falling on lead. i know and trust the process, understand the consequences and am prepared to face the challenge.

i see the heavy pack as a security blanket. it's full of things that could easily trick one into thinking it will make you a more successful backpacker. yet someone posted a long time ago that the most useful piece of gear to bring on a trip is your brain, and I couldn't agree more.

why lug that bag of bricks with you everywhere you go? why cling to a perception of security that will limit what you can accomplish? perhaps you have grown comfortable with boundaries established by your backpack and not by your head? it's always easier when the hard choices are taken from us by an inanimate and nameless entity.

that's my long answer.

my short answer is... it's not about the gear.”

“Hey Deore, feel free. lol”

“I think my bottle of Polar Pure is about 5 years old by now. I haven't regularly used it in a few though.”

“Hey, did'nt we all send bits and pieces of our gear to someone who had all theirs stolen a year or two ago??”

“You get what you pay for - cheap gear is typically cheap and you will replacing it with better gear and spending more money in the long run. Find what you want and then watch for it on sale - as long as you're not picky on the color or it being last year's model then you'll find good deals on the internet.”

“i am constantly amazed at the quality and level of utility one sees in DIY gear.”

“tarp camping seems like a great way to save money. Are there some good sites out there with good information about using blue plastic tarps for camping? Like suggestions on rigging the ridge line, and having a beak on the roof that goes down the guy like a bit? Rigging for high wind, and the best configuration for heavy rain?”

“chappy: this seems to happen on TT every year or two. i remember the last round but don't recall whose gear was stolen.

crash bang had his gear swiped from his car while in RRG. i always fear this happening to me, especially when i go out there and have to leave all my trad climbing gear in the car. never a problem, however... knock on wood.”

“(double post)
last edited: 12/17/07 2:03:28 PM”

“Mountain Roamer - that was quite a blast from the past. It looked familiar so I cut and pasted a line and tried it on Goodsearch and low and behold same post almost six years ago! So, yeah I'll "accuse [you] of trolling (whatever that means)"

http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/12432,-1.php”

“I remember when my very own brother came on here as Overloaded But Happy and trolled everyone over the lightweight hiking stuff. He had a blast...I wanted to kick 'em in the pills.”

“Good sleuthing ped. I'm glad there wasn't an unprovoked attack on Sarge in there or we never would have heard the end of that #&%!$.

Nigal, I thought your brother was your imaginary alterego.”

“The best trick is to go to a real expensive gear store and try everything so you know what you are looking for. Then try to find it cheap on the internet.
toejam
8:50:24 AM
12/16/07

Toejam - I'm a fine of bargains on the net, but I gotta respectfully disagree on going to a bricks and mortar gear store to try things out and then buying the same thing on the internet. My feeling is that if you use their services and try on things, you ought to give them the sale - at least if its not astronomically above the internet price.”

“crud, I meant a fan of bargains on the net.”

“Can't say I disagree with you, ped. There is one local store I like to keep in business. But if you need a bunch of gear cheap, you can't beat the internet and you've gotta know what you are looking for.”

“I'll still wait for 1000pf down before buying a new bag at net discount.”

“"Lightweight" is a relative term. I like the term "comfortable weight" better.

My suggestion is that it pays ten fold to do some reading and a little questioning. I've went through a lot of gear, replacing some bping items twice, three times in some cases. It gets pricey doing it that way.

Jimmy's got some good tips for you and you have the most powerful tool Homo sapiens have ever had right at their finger tips.

Bping is what you make of it. If you make it a hassle, that's what you're going to get.

If you can make one (and there isn't as many as there used to be), get on a trip with some hikers who have some miles under their boots. Don't think that what is working out for them is the only, or best, way either.

You have to watch out for those ones.

Observe, throw out a question, read. That's the part that was fun for me when I first started.

You should add campmor.com to your list of venders as well. They have a good deal of stuff (and their own line that is very good and priced right) and good prices and regular sales.”

“As far as why lightweight? (For me, lightweight is the key, not necessarily ultralight).

I saw a demonstration at a Scout leader training once. I don't know if its accurate, but it kinda brought home the idea. The trainer (who has many many bag nights) started out by having each of us try on an old denim pack that was loaded with 50-60 lbs. That thing was heavy. He explained that 50 lbs is 1/4 of the bodyweight of a 200 lb man. He projected that to the younger kids we deal with who, many times, weigh 100-120 lbs at most. A 1/4 of their bodyweight would only be 30 lbs.

He explained that the more weight you put into your pack, the higher your risk for injury (back, knee, ankle). Additionally, you run into the problem that Jimmy mentioned with the mentality of backpacking. If you're mind is on the weight of a heavy pack or on the possibility of an injury, its much more difficult to remain aware of what's around you and the situations you may be in.

That being said, I am a firm believer that beginners (such as myself), will probably (and maybe should probably) pack more than they will need. I think you learn with every hour on the trail and every night in a bag what you need and what can be left at home (or better, what can be given to a local Boy Scout troop). I also believe in not taking unnecessary risks (only you can determine for yourself what is an unnecessary risk).

I also know personally the situation of not having the extra money to spend a lot on gear. Sometimes you just have to spend what you can and hope to upgrade later. Otherwise, you are just wasting time that could be spent on the trail. I have spent a lot of time looking for the best deals and the best gear, trying to find a way to afford it. I've finally just decided that I'm going to get what I can afford and hope to upgrade later, even if it means spending more in the long run.

I'm taking my Scouts out this weekend on the first backpacking trip this troop has probably ever done. Most of my boys are from lower income families, but we're going to get whatever equipment we can scrounge together and hit the trail. (Granted, we're only going about 5 miles from the car and only overnight, but at least we'll be out there).”

“right on ASUD”