Toyota #2 in US Sales, Ford #3

“I haven't seen the quality issues spoken of here. Consumer Reports has in nearly every category as most reliable car/truck is either a Toyota or a Honda.”

“I think the GMs out right now are as good or better than anything toyota or honda has...

also, hyundais sucks! Their 100k warrenty is worthless. They don't even stand by it.

I had a claim with a guy who had a 2006 hyundai with 30,000 miles on it and it blew a gasket and killed the engine and hyindai won't do anything about it, even though it is under warrenty. They told him he put more miles on it that normal, so that is the problem and they are not covering it. He kept the maintenence up and everything..

It is as darwin said. Toyotas and Hondas are not all they are cracked up to be right now. They are starting to slack on quality, while GM is raising the bar back on the domestic side.. The market will bounce back..

It will start with the brand new Chevy Malibu and Impala.”

“Give me a break, chevy will never match Toyota or Honda quality after all, their cars are still considered throwaways. You buy one and 3 years later trade it in before it starts falling apart if it lasts that long.How many 10 year old Chevy cars do you see on the road everyday compared to Toyotas and Hondas. Not many.”

“Where I live, I see more older American cars on the road than Japanese cars. Lots more. I don't know why that is, maybe the parts are cheaper or more available in junkyards, but it's something I've noticed. Hondas and Toyotas have problems like all cars do. They are not immune. Beyond that I've waited a week for a part from the Toyota dealer where I got a part for my Chevy van on the same day. What's up with that?
last edited: 1/07/08 5:11:35 PM”

“How would it feel if I took your job away and sent it to India, China, or any other overseas company? Do people really believe the quality and reliability is not in American and UAW made vehicles? That Lie is getting old and our countries future is depending on the survival of the big three auto companies. Think about it, most tech support has gone overseas now, along with engineering, not to mention all of the clothing and footwear right after the electronics industries. NAFTA and the other so called "free trade" policies will eventually end all of our jobs. What will our consumer market rely on when we all work at McDonalds or Wal-Mart?”

“It's so rare to need a Toyota part that they just make them on demand:)”

“It can't be that rare because it took me a week to get an appointment with the service department. These were fairly common parts too. Mass air flow sensor, bank 2 oxygen sensor, defective catalytic converter and a defective charcoal canister. Oh and just for the record my brother's Toyota RAV4 just started blowing oil on start up at 55,000 miles due to bad valve stem seals, a commom problem with the first generation RAV4. Like I said on other car threads, they all have problems.
last edited: 1/07/08 5:28:09 PM”

“first foreign car I've ever owned is the one I'm driving now....liked it so good I named him Marty the Matrix. I really gotta say Marty is the best car I've ever owned....and his yakima racks make him even cuter!
”

“My '98 Jeep Wrangler runs like the day I bought it.

Only in a Jeep.”

“I still love my Echo. (it does need an new rear 02 sensor). 2002, 69K. Sometimes ya get funky gas in Nashville, cuz the part is good for 100K.”

“Buy American, I help Make it!!!

Many more Toyotas and Hondas are now made in America while many GM, Ford, and Chrysler products are made in other countries. Now tell me, who is really selling you out?”

“I bought a new Toyota Corolla GTS in 1988. I put 290,000 problem free miles on it. only needed routine maintainence. I gave it to my step-son when he was 18. When he was 22, he drove it to the junk yard and got 200.00 for it. It had 375,000 miles on it. Engine still ran good and the car was still getting about 37 mpg, but the body was falling apart.”

“Many more Toyotas and Hondas are now made in America while many GM, Ford, and Chrysler products are made in other countries. Now tell me, who is really selling you out?”
yotaman
6:19:28 PM
1/07/08


A mechanic told me that Chevy truck transmissions started going downhill when they were outsourced to Mexico. One of the benefits of NAFTA I guess.”

“That's common now with all car companies. With globalization and outsourcing, parts can come from just about anywhere and it's pretty much the luck of the draw as to what you'll get. Jatco the company that makes the CVT transmission is building a plant in China so in time Nissan and some Chrysler CVT transmissions will be coming from China. Add to that the amount of knock off parts made in China that aren't the real thing. When it comes to replacing parts is it for real or a Chinese phony?”

“Most Reliable Small Car

Most reliable (Best score first)
Honda Fit (pictured)*
Toyota Yaris*
Honda Civic Hybrid*
Toyota Corolla
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Chevrolet Cobalt
2006 Nissan Sentra
Volkswagen Jetta (5 cyl.)
Chevrolet Aveo

Most Reliable Family Car

Most reliable (Best score first)
Honda Accord Hybrid (pictured)
Toyota Prius
Honda Accord (4-cyl.)
Ford Fusion*
Mercury Milan*

Least reliable
Volkswagen Passat (4 cyl.)

Most Reliable Upscale/Large Car
Most reliable (Best score first)
Lexus ES350 (pictured)
Lincoln Zephyr*
Hyundai Azera*
Acura TSX
Acura TL
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Jaguar X-type
Chrysler 300 (V8)
Saab 9-3

Most Reliable Luxury Car
Most reliable (Best score first)
2006 Lexus LS (2007 model pictured)
Infiniti M*
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Cadillac STS (V8)
2006 Mercees-Benz S-class
Mercedes-Benz CLS*
Mercedes-Benz E-class sedan
BMW 7-series
Jaguar S-type”

“If you're looking for safety go with the dodge grand caravan obviously those crash test ratings are worth something seeing as how I collided into the side of another car today going 60 or more and all that is wrong with me is a bruised elbow. However for all you parents out there with children too old for a car seat please put them in a booster seat until they are at least 4'9' my eight year old sister was the only one injured because we did not put the booster seat into the van before we left so please parents put you're children in the correct seat my other sister was in her car seat and is without a scratch from the whole wreck.”

“Sorry, hit the button too soon and got locked out. Here's the whole list with link.

Let the actual drivers and experts have a say.

For 2007

Most Reliable Small Car

Most reliable (Best score first)
Honda Fit (pictured)*
Toyota Yaris*
Honda Civic Hybrid*
Toyota Corolla
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Chevrolet Cobalt
2006 Nissan Sentra
Volkswagen Jetta (5 cyl.)
Chevrolet Aveo

Most Reliable Family Car

Most reliable (Best score first)
Honda Accord Hybrid (pictured)
Toyota Prius
Honda Accord (4-cyl.)
Ford Fusion*
Mercury Milan*

Least reliable
Volkswagen Passat (4 cyl.)

Most Reliable Upscale/Large Car
Most reliable (Best score first)
Lexus ES350 (pictured)
Lincoln Zephyr*
Hyundai Azera*
Acura TSX
Acura TL
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Jaguar X-type
Chrysler 300 (V8)
Saab 9-3

Most Reliable Luxury Car
Most reliable (Best score first)
2006 Lexus LS (2007 model pictured)
Infiniti M*
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Cadillac STS (V8)
2006 Mercees-Benz S-class
Mercedes-Benz CLS*
Mercedes-Benz E-class sedan
BMW 7-series
Jaguar S-type

Most Reliable Sport/Sporty car
Most reliable (Best score first)
Lexus SC
Toyota Camry Solara (4-cyl.)
Subaru Impreza WRX
Honda S2000
Mitsubishi Eclipse*
2006 Mini Cooper hatchback
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Pontiac Solstice*
Mercedes-Benz SL
Mercedes-Benz CLK
Mercedes-Benz SLK (V6)
Chevrolet Corvette
Porsche 911 Carrera
Ford Mustang (V6)

Most Reliable Wagon/Minivan
Most reliable (Best score first)
Pontiac Vibe (pictured)
Scion xB
Toyota Matrix
Toyota Sienna
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Buick Terraza
Chevrolet Uplander
Saturn Relay
Nissan Quest

Most Reliable Small SUV
Most reliable (Best score first)
Toyota FJ Cruiser* (pictured)
Honda Element
2006 Honda CR-V
Toyota Rav4*
2006 Mitsubishi Outlander*
Subaru Forester
Least reliable
Kia Sportage

Midsized SUVs
Most reliable (Best score first)
Toyota Highlander Hybrid* (pictured)
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Highlander
Honda Pilot
Lexus RX400h* (hybrid)
2006 Acura MDX
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Mercedes-Benz M-class*
Land Rover LR3 (V8)
Cadillac SRX (V8)
Mercedes-Benz R-class*
Volkswagen Touareg
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Hummer H3*
2006 BMW X5 (V8)
Volvo XC90 (I6 and V8)
Ford Explorer (V8)
Mercury Mountaineer (V8)

Large SUVs
Most reliable (Best score first)
Toyota Land Cruiser
Lexus LX
Toyota Sequoia
Chevrolet Tahoe*
GMC Yukon*
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Nissan Armada
Infiniti QX56
Lincoln Navigator
Hummer H2

Pickups
Most reliable (Best score first)
Subaru Baja
Toyota Tundra
Toyota Tacoma
Nissan Frontier (V6)
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Nissan Titan
Ford F-250 (diesel)
Dodge Dakota (4WD)
2006 Cadillac Escalade EXT

http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/autos/reliable/index.html

I can't be sure but I do believe Toyota in Japanese means "top of the food chain".”

“Naked Ape, I just sold my Pontiac Firebird. It was the TransAm model and had 55K miles on it and never spent a day outside, always garage kept. To sell it I had to replace the clutch master cylinder and the catalytic convert as both were bad. It also had a busted speaker, a bad strut for the trunk. Compare that with my Hyundai I had in college..150K miles and all it needed was a set of spark plug wires...had the original clutch and brakes when I sold it. I bought it because of that 100K warranty and never used it, it could be seen on many TT trips all over the country from wyoming to florida.

I plan on getting at least 300K out of my new Tacoma. Maybe after ENS puts some miles on his Malibu and breaks down out near the trail I'll give him a tow to the nearest shop.”

“My Saab 9-3 SUCKS ASS. DO NOT EVER BUY SAAB unless its an older pre-GM. I can't wait to sell it and get a company car, free of worry, and FREE. Can't wait to beat the crap out of it and not worry.

I'm in Sales =)”

“Wow, if Japan starts outsourcing to red China, then it's a good possibility the US vehicles will not lag so far behind in reliability. Not only will accidents have the possibility of blunt force injury, you could possibly inhale lead paint that flakes off from the collision and get poisoned.









*I keed. Yes I know the body panels will probably not be painted in China.
last edited: 1/07/08 8:21:54 PM”

“Yeah ENS is puttin's some wicked reliability in that Malibu. I hope for his sake you are nearby when he breaks down.

I'm shore glad y'all're aiight Rocky, but the only way'd I'd drive a Dodge anythang is if they just gave me one (AND paid the sales taxes).

Karo I shore hate that you work for them, buddy. But make a crappy product, and you ain't got much chance of getting me to buy it. If I do a vineyard and bottle crap, well then looks like I'll be outa work, huh? Same for you I reckon.”

“GM designs and builds a lot of fine vehicles. Problem is that not all vehicles have proven themselves over time. Toyota and Honda have developed great reputations because all their vehicles are good quality. Image means a lot in the auto industry.

I worked for GM almost 15 years. The last 10 years I was an industrial engineer in one of the assembly plants. Since then I have learned a lot about the Toyota Production System. Therein lies the difference between GM & Japan. Japan uses very high paid workers, but they are productive and are trained on how to continuously improve their operations and cope with change. They work on the system. In addition, their work flow strategy is superior. They optimize the entire system. US automakers optimize sub-systems and ignore the overall system.

Toyota and Honda seem to be able to make cars in the US profitably. GM could also if they had the proper leadership.”

“Japan uses very high paid workers, but they are productive and are trained on how to continuously improve their operations and cope with change.

and are largely non-union...the troubles the us makers are having right now can be attributed to high costs of ongoing pension and health care plans thanks to the unions”

“A buddy of mine is an electricial engineer at a Toyota plant in KY. He started at Ford in MI and left after about 2 years.

He makes triple what he would have at Ford, plus the benifits rock!

Exactly what Thrifty about health care and US auto makers!”

“It's Obama's fault! Spirit Coyote said so.”

“But of course!”

“of course that was sarcastic but he does seem to be pretty pro-union and with another impending bail out that's kind of scary because it will be his administration that oversees that bail out...part of me wants to say just let them drown but if the anticipated effect on our economy is as great as the "experts" say then maybe we shouldn't...but if we do, i think the government needs to take a lot of control of the company and make them make sever changes in their structure”

“My Canadian made 07 Civic has had two minor recalls already, wheel seal and a bolt problem on a fan pulley. 200m on my '93 Toyota pu. Replaced the starter, horn, thermostat.”

“My '07 Yaris just flipped over 100,000 miles. I had it given the once over and the only thing the mechanic did was adjust the brakes (pads are still fine) and replace the windshield wipers and spark plugs.

I've never had this much faith and confidence in a car before.”

“I LOVE MY NEW Ford Escape Hybrid! LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!! I love it more than I loved my Toy Highlander.

Hate the bailout idea for the big three. They didn't make the changes that needed to be made, they didn't keep up with the new trends, they should burn!”

“Just watching the news - bailout possibly $75 billion - cost to the US in first year of letting them fail - $175 billion.”

“That's all speculation, if they die then the other automakers will have to pick up the slack and it will improve their sales figures, then they will have to hire more workers, etc. A big chunk of the industry can't just disappear.

Honda employs a ton of people in Ohio and Toyota employs lots of people I know in WV. Both build superior vehicles in non-union shops. GM needs to ditch the union so they can fire all the bad workers hiding behind the UAW, pay people more competitively, and build better cars then they might have a chance.”

“yeah, i love BS business-case justification like that. bottom line: GM is losing 71 million dollars per day.

it's not a matter of whether or not they fail. THEY HAVE ALREADY FAILED. the company is the walking dead.

the government would do better to tell gm to close its doors and pay it's 335,000 workers each a $233K tax-free severance (=$78B dollars).”

“Hate the bailout idea for the big three. They didn't make the changes that needed to be made, they didn't keep up with the new trends, they should burn!”
Tango
4:10:57 PM
11/11/08

THEY won't be the only ones burning. You all don't understand how much the American auto companies mean to this country. I'd like to invite you to Michigan for a few days.....

And I'm sure it will affect other states as well. Guess what? The state department announced today that the Iraqi refugees/immigrants can no longer come to Michigan (they really like Dearborn/biggest middle Eastern pop outside of the Middle East), because Michigan cannot support them (or their own citizens) anymore. And the bail out won't come soon enough. Parts distributors get their $ about three months after they deliver the goods. That would be January. Guess who is feeling iffy about providing parts now to a company that may be out of business in January?

The shiznit has hit the fizan in MI. It sucks. I now live in the middle of FIVE empty houses. Feels like the f*cking ghetto all of the sudden.

The government needs those auto companies OPEN to pay the FREAKING CITY and STATE TAXES in communities like mine.”

“When did the United States capitalist society become the United States give money to companies too big to fail; too stupid to keep up with the times.

I own a company and if I don't keep up with the times my company closes it's doors and I get nothing.

Now I am not just against the car companies but also the bailouts for the banks that were too greedy and flouted good business practices and now are in the toilet. And still taking advantage of their customers with incentives and bonuses. BONUSES??? You've got to be kidding me!

Funny that Ford president got a bonus last year when Ford lost TONS and TONS of money! Isn't that crazy?? Give them money when they are giving their prez money for losing money??

SICKENING.”

“Well of course it's sickening - it's the culture that's been encouraged over the past eight years. We've been sold on the fact that they needed to pay the boardroom that much to hold on to talent. That's what has led to CEOs now getting 344 times the average salaries of the people who work for them.

These companies have screwed up - but letting them fail will screw us all up - just like letting the financial companies fail would have literally frozen the economy in America. The country would have fallen apart - literally.

Now I hate the bailout and it is sickening - we need to change the way things have become - but we need to find the best way out of this, and sometimes that involves doing things we don't find so appealing. This is a crisis and its happening now.

And I have no doubt some of the new jobs in other firms will come to America, but only a fraction of what will be gone - and that will take several years - and that doesn't even take into account the destruction of lives in cities and states which rely on this.

Pretending that everything will be ok is not the answer.”

“See the same people who told you that magic pixie dust will make the jobs reappear are the same ones who told you that CEO pay was just the market at work and that we don't need no regulations.”

“yawn”

“I say let them fail and bail out the workers and the little people.

They should not bail out the banks and should've done what worked in the 80's with the savings and loans. Guess what cost to the tax payer--NOTHING. There was a bill in congress that was called the "No bail out bill" and it got little to no press. It was backed by economists and former FDIC chairmen but spent none of our money. Very interesting I think.

Letter against the bail out.

http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/mortgage_protest.htm

Oh and guess what... Do you know who they put in charge of the money the guy is a former Goldman Sachs executive to be the interim head of its $700 billion rescue effort for financial institutions. And he led Goldman's IT Security investment banking practice, advising public and private companies on mergers and acquisitions and financial transactions.

Anyone see a problem with this guy???

I like Yogisan's idea, give the money straight to the people not to the high and mightily greedy!”

“The same economists telling you the market would self-regulate are the ones telling you that you'll create a moral hazard if you bail out financial institutions.

These guys went a little quiet after they watched virtually every major financial institution in the world face collapse after the loss of Lehman - a single investment bank.

And yogi's plan doesn't really deal with the problem, add in the people supported year-on-year by GM's business, all around the country, and suddenly you're at a million, or 1.5m. Suddenly that $233k is what, about 75k. And of course there would be a lot of senior execs in that figure, so what would the median be, $50k, S60k?

So a potentially long-term jobs is gone and they get probably less than a year's salary.

What about that new training - that was going to create new jobs, that's going to cost several thousand each.

Of course these people could always move to find work, but no one is going to buy their houses as there's no work in that town any more - so if they want work they'll likely lose their homes - defaulting on their mortgages maybe - oh, I guess the financial firms will need more money then.

Then we haven't gone into the local Tax base - as Sass mentioned. I mean we're not taking that $50k are we. So the local government will be shedding jobs, schools perhaps, road maintenance.

Of course once they burn through that cash they'll stop shopping, so the local stores will go - even Walmart will start laying people off, Home Depot will close, sending another couple of hundred onto the job market....

Oh and Hyway - I know you're trying to dig at me, but I find it disgusting that you post that on a thread where someone posts real and significant concerns for their community.”

“Oh, and that doesn't include the unemployment packages you'll have to start paying the week after you give them a package.”

“Anyone see where AIG is already coming back to the trough for seconds? Corporate welfare is nothing but enabling. I'd rather see GM get it's bones picked, shell out for the unemployment knowing that it was going to cause a stronger future than to give the welfare up front with little guarantees of any success.”

“Then the bailout funds should be redirected to the communities like mine with three massive GM facilities to rebuild that land for other industry.
It would be nice if there were regulations that came along w/ the bailout funds. I don't trust that the government knows any better what to do than the auto companies.”

“It is another beautiful day. GM can look forward to another 71 million flushed down the toilet. How many cars would they have to sell today to make up 71 million?

Even if the bailout occurs I doubt it will take the form of cash. I suspect it will be in the form of government loan guarantees.

GM as a business is just not set up for success. It doesn't matter if they make good cars or bad. You can't push a rope.

What is killing GM right now is the high cost of... Credit default-swaps. Like everyone else who has grown dependant on this unregulated market.”

“Bailout? With Bob Lutz still trying to out design the Stingray? LMAO”

“Whenever y2 thinks, an angel rips off it's wings.”

“Faerie tails”

“Well of course it's sickening - it's the culture that's been encouraged over the past eight years
Y2
11:20:48 PM
11/11/08

that's an awfully convenient number...you sure it doesn't go back much further than that?”