Obama for President 2008

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“Big Boobs
Really, no joke
Work safe, but you might turn the volume down

http://youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU”

“�V, they already know more about the man than he knows about himself.It was not only divisive, but failed to address his core beliefs�Sarge�
salebored
12:36:50 PM
3/19/08


salebored, that is from his church, where he has gone for 20 years. It is one of his core beliefs.”

“*yawn*

I guess I was hoping to get some light on the issues, but it appears there is nothing new here.”

“I wonder about this concept of "hating America" and idiotic bumperstickers about 'blaming America first' from ethically challenged people like Pat Buchanan.

For example I have a great deal of contempt for people who have done nasty things and done their level best to damage the credibility of the United States. � Some recent.... some in the moldy past.... I don't need to list them here do I?

The point is, I don't equate them with "America". � There have been quite a few over the years, but I sincerely hope they were aberrations.

The odd thing is that some people regard them as heroes when they were in fact criminals.

”

“Blind”

“So, you are TT, cause that what you wanted to be?”

“When electing a president of the ... United States, let's ignore the fact that the guy goes to a church, for 20 years, that speaks out against America.

good idea”

“It was a good speech - you know it.

compare that to the pack of delusions told by bushy today.

You're really reaching trying to pull things apart.”

“I prefer substance over style. Stylistically, it's on par with the upper-school students where my wife teaches. Substance wise, it's divisive and lacking in solutions and explanations as to his beliefs that contrast with the basic tenants of his church.... which ... is kind of the point.”

“Lot's of lies are better than a single truth, ask Larry about what happened in the other booth.”

“Who's Y2 voting for?
*snicker*”

“Hmmm, I suppose the civil rights movement was "anti-american", huh?

Suffrage too”

“What are you talking about markO? He's not being accused of being anti American for wanting to change certain things. He's accused of being anti-American because he's against America (at least his church is that he has been a member of for 20 years, and still is).”

“Why, because they speak out against things unjust?

Stop being such a square head.”

“Can you specify which passages you find divisive?”
Reverend Truth V Wicked
12:28:28 PM
3/19/08

But it also means binding our particular grievances -- for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs -- to the larger aspirations of all Americans, the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family.

All Americans? Thats not all American's thats the disenfranchised and/or have nots.

This time we want to talk about how the lines in the emergency room are filled with whites and blacks and Hispanics who do not have health care, who don't have the power on their own to overcome the special interests in Washington, but who can take them on if we do it together.

again, the have nots”

“So 9/11 happened not because we were hated, but because they were the easiest planes to steal? Wright wasn't rite about anything in his rant , nomatter from what skin color prospective?”

“Why, because they speak out against things unjust?

MarkO

No, because they speak out against AMERICA. Please focus.”

“We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.”

“Add to that their ANTI-AMERICAN preaching, and it's pretty clear.”

“Who cares about right and wrong as long as the stockholders are happy.

Bear Stearns stockholders most unhappy at present.”

“So , if Barack had told the truth by saying he's a professional liar because he's a preacher, so what he said means no more than all the usual BS, you'd feel more secure with him?

The African allegiance is bad ,but I feel most christians have an allegiance to Israel, heaven and hell more than to common america, am I wrong?
last edited: 3/19/08 11:35:47 AM”

“The strange thing is they are screaming about the lack of the minorities to "make it big" but they push the lower end jobs. The jobs that will be in the lower demand and lower pay grades....YET they (the Obama's) have set no such personal example.”

“salebored - I don't know any Christian, personally (I'm sure they exist), and I know a lot of Christians from many denominations, who have an allegiance to Israel, heaven or hell. All the ones I know have an allegiance to God first, most of them have an allegiance to their country second, and to their family third. Have you been to church lately salebored, or do you get your ideas about American Christians from Katie "Bring More Wax for My Legs" Couric?

There is no need for you to call Christian preachers liars, salebored.”

“Well... thanks for answering hyway.

Sorry but I can't really see it as "divisive" to point out that some people in America are struggling to make a better life for themselves. I guess those are things better left unmentioned.”

“context ... it's all about context”

“I can't really see it as "divisive" to point out that some people in America are struggling to make a better life for themselves - violin

Neither can I.

Trouble is, that's not what Obama said. Of course even after the direct quotes, you won't admit it.”

“Look ... the libbies have in their minds that the government's function is to provide ADDITIONAL help for the have-nots, whereas the conservatives believe the government should treat everyone equally and let the "people" get out of life, legally, what they're willing to work for, without the GOVERNMENT, giving preferential treatment to one group over the other.

So yeah, he'll never see that as divisive.”

“"All the ones I know have an allegiance to God first, most of them have an allegiance to their country second, and to their family third."

So, you would sell out your family to a corrupt regime to be patriotically correct.”

“That's why I ask if I was wrong. See, I spent a lot of time in the religions and have my favorite parts of each combined in my own system of personal rules by which I live. The supernatural and use of faith isn't needed , because I use only the ideas from all sources available in a real world attempt to be the best person I can be.”

“So, you would sell out your family to a corrupt regime to be patriotically correct.

Of course not.”

“That's great salebored. You seem very content in your self-made religion.”

“all religions are self made.”

“There is some truth to what you're saying violin which is what perplexes me about Obama. I admire the guy. He has attained the American dream against all odds. He worked so hard to make it and he has made a great life for himself and his family. I have no dout he has great chacter for having achieved all that he has done. So why does he want to usher in a New Deal type of socialist program where these things are provided by the government where allthe rewards he went out and got are denied through enabling?

I mean, his success alone goes against everything he is saying is wrong. You can, in fact, come up from nowhere and make it. Why devalue that by handing it out like expected candy?

And this question is for violin or other Obama supporters so the rest of ya save it for each other. I want to know what the supporters think, not you.”

“(warning, ignore if you want a libbie perspective)

he wants free votes from non-thinking people”

“Most amazing how this guy has gotten by so long. If he was jewish and 25% america indian he would be totally the perfect Teflon man.

A racist(guilt) dream if I ever did see one.”

“Sorry SB ---- All the Gods took a vote and you're going straight to Hell � (as soon as they figure out which Hell to send you to).”

“Nigal - if you read this speech (and others) I don't think he's calling for handouts. In fact, he stated that the welfare system perpetuated inequalities.

I think the sorts of programs he's talked about are more of a hand up. I know that the GI bill was a huge help into the middle class for many and has paid great dividends to our society. Investing in our citizens and better equipping all to compete in a global economy is essential.”

“HIS CHURCH REQUIRES IT'S MEMBERS TO PROMOTE A LIBERATION THEOLOGY VIOLIN!!

If you don't know what that is, stick it in google and read.”

“GI Bill was for services rendered. I have no problem with that. Give service to the government for a few years (and not just raising awareness, but in actual work) then get money for college. Is that his plan? Or is his plan just to hand out money?”

“Y'all better git used to him being president!

Not in this decade tho, but sometime in our future he'll take this land's highest office. He gotta mature some, git some age on him, git a whole lot more experience under his belt. But look, he's groomed and made for a future win. He's now taking the knocks, the scrutiny, and all the talkin' heads he1l that running for president carries with it, and he's doing great - all thangs considered. He'll deffinitely take the Democratic Nomination over Hill/Bill, and altho he'll lose the general election, he'll do a great job running, and America will remember him very well for a future election. Certainly he'll be our first black president ..... one day.”

“he's still an ultra liberal, near socialist. That might win him the dem nomination but never the presidential. He can't change those stripes without losing his base. As soon as he starts being reasonable and compromising with the far right, his base will start calling him an Uncle Tom. I am sure he knows this so he will never be reasonable and thus always marginalized by his socialist views”

“I think the sorts of programs he's talked about are more of a hand up. I know that the GI bill was a huge help into the middle class for many and has paid great dividends to our society. Investing in our citizens and better equipping all to compete in a global economy is essential.

I can see how you would see it as a hand up rather than a hand out. I was probably not as accurate in my description. I also recognize that we have a different view of what the role of government should be. One of my biggest gripes with Bush has been his spending, size of government and the infringement on personal rights. I simply do not believe that an even bigger government, even more spending and even further reaching infringements is what we need or really want.

I feel that we, as a country, flourish when the government simply gets out of our way. what would I personally like to see?

*Drastically cut or abolish the corporate taxes- Companies and industry will beat a path to America to tap into a great work force. With an unemployment rate of about 5% the more companies that come the greater the competition for good workers which will raise pay rates and benefits packages.

*Overhaul the tax codes- No breaks. No loopholes. If you make X amount of dollars you pay X% on that income. The more you make the more you pay. The less you make the less you pay.

*Return power to the states- I'd like to see the feds run the country and let the states run the states. the federal government's job should be to defend the country and the Constitution. That's it. The minutia is the job of the states.

*Stop mucking about in the affairs of other nations except when it directly threatens America- with all we have spent on Iraq we could have completely sealed the borders and be upholding our laws concerning illegal entry into the country. We would be much safer for doing this than having a war in the Middle East. If we believe in freedom and self determination then we should respect other nations rights to be free and determine for themselves.

Of course I know you feel differently than I do and that's all well and good.”

“I agree Nigal with almost EVERYTHING.

I was in Europe in the Early 1980's I saw the brilliantly planned Death Walls, Dog Runs and what not of the Iron Curtain. And yet with all that (and the coincident restrictions on Civil Rights) people still got through.

I do not believe in reality we could ever build that TYPE of Wall or even come close to it. This would involve searches of houses for border tunnels, unreasonable searches of homes, cars and persons in or near the wall. And even with that (I am talking about WHAT I KNOW happened in Eastern Europe) how many people would it take to throw another multi Billion dollar wrench in our society?

Nigal, are you fully prepared to see the shootdown of even one civilian aircraft that breaks the border? We are talking LA or San Deigo are only minutes from the border. Hell look at the cities in the North East and West that are only minutes by Air from Canada.

Yeah the fantasy crowd says that. Hell the French spent themselves blind on a moument to man's stupidity (the Maginot Line) and what did that do for them?

Nah the defense is not the way to go. You may differ but I challenge you to show me one war that was won by defensive tactics alone.”

“With a good defense, you can throw the word war out in the pin with the mongers.

One war being won-you can't see that.
last edited: 3/20/08 7:07:21 AM”

“Yes Nigal, we do have very different points of view but I appreciate your civility.

One of the reasons corporations want to be here is the great work force that you reference. Education is critical to developing that work force. The cost of college is a strain for many middle class families. It is completely out of reach for those below. It makes no sense to exclude a significant portion of the population from higher education simply because they can't afford it. A national investment in education helps grow our national economy. Much of the rest of the world realizes this. We can't afford to fall behind if we want to maintain our way of life and position in the world.”

“Something I have noticed about higher education in the passed 20 years is it has become a matter of steps. Traditionally when someone graduates high school they go to a four year school and then into the work place. Now it seems people work their way through it. It's next to impossible for an adult to put their lives on hold for school and afford it. So the average person goes in steps while continuing to work.

If we look at some of the most successful companies and many places we find that they will actually pay or subsidize higher education. My company is going to pay the entire $9,000 tuition for nursing school. I could see this type of benefit being fairly popular in the competitive corporate landscape I described.

I also feel that when looking at higher education we have to consider the base upon which it is built; the public school system. It is failing despite having poured more money into it than any time previously. I also do not feel that higher education is that far out of reach provided the individual is willing to do the work to achieve it, just like Barach did. The amount of grants and student loans that are out there is staggering. But it takes work.”