Off Trail in the SMokies

“Hey My hiking buddy and I are going to the smokies again for the week of 3/10.
I've been doing some research to find more things offtrail and i've come across a few places but only found limited info for those spots. Sos I need some assitance in planning an awesome week exploring the bussiest Nat Park while seeing the least amount of people.
I read about an abandoned stone building on bear branch near the Old Sugarlands Trail. the article said its located along an old trace on Old TN 31. I've studied topos maps and could not find bear branch.
I've also read about three forks. I was wondering how overgrown the breakneck ridge manway leading in was and if it is easy to find.
I've heard talk of "secret" trail workers shelters in the park. I think I may have located one near Jenkins Ridge Trail and the AT. If you look at a topo map it marks a shelter about the same distance from the AT as the shelter at spencefield. Unfortunately i think this maybe one of the old shelters that have since been torn down. If anyone knows where one of those "secret" camps are i would love to know. hehe..
Also if anyone knows of natural shelters like rock houses that are off trail or any other cool rarely traveled to spots i would love to know. I've heard of a rock shelter on buck fork near Ramsey prong but they said it's hard to find.
I've already been to whiteoak sink, above ramsey cascades almost all the way to the AT, barnes place, catstairs, spruce flats falls, logging equipment near forney creek trail, manway between chimney tops and surgar mtn trail, enkaneetlee manway, the manway up mt crammer. so please don't post anything about these spots cause been there done that.
Thanks guys,
the Antelope”

“A few years ago a lot of workers were at or near the Spence Field Shelter. They stayed overnight, but not at Spence. So I think you're correct. Jenkins Ridge Trail is not far away, so that must be the location for the workers' shelter. Thanks.

There is a building a short distance uptrail from Pecks Corner Shelter. However, there is no secret about that one.

Logging workers and their families lived in a Rock Cave above Big Creek Trail. They say that one can see it from the trail However, in many attempts I have never seen it.
last edited: 2/03/08 1:33:26 PM”

“I will see if I can find the back issue of the Metro Pulse. It gave information about 4 months ago in regard to bushwhack hikes.

The GSMHC (Great Smoky Mountain Hiking Club) has had cabins in the Park since its inception and are now used for maintenace related activities.”

“http://www.metropulse.com/articles/2007/17_41/coverstory_3.html

Here you go.”

“Thanks, Chili, er.. chili42?”

“if I still had numbers, it would be chili45”

“dang, chili, you're getting old. :)”

“I prefer to call it experienced.”

“experienced and Seasoned ......That is a good site Chili..45”

“I was comimg up Briar Knob heading west on the AT. At the top, a ridgerunner told me he had watched me come up. I never saw him. He was watching me while sitting at one of the 'secret' shelters. They are mostly for ridgerunners and trail workers.

They aren't really secret. There are clear paths to most of them if you look.”

“every ridgerunner I ever saw...saw me coming first. They're ninjas.”

“The ridge runner in summer '06 was a dip #&%!$”

“The RR in '01 was too.

This sounds like a Towndawg thing.”

“Yeah, it has TD stamped all over it.”

“huh??.. me???..

I know nuffin. ;)

Seriously?.. theAntelope is a brand new guy to the board -- and I know nothing about you, your experience, your talents.


1) "an abandoned stone building on bear branch near the Old Sugarlands Trail."

2) "how overgrown the breakneck ridge manway leading in was"

3) "may have located one near Jenkins Ridge Trail and the AT"

4) "heard of a rock shelter on buck fork near Ramsey prong"

5) "above ramsey cascades almost all the way to the AT"

Geez.. I guess you think you are just going to waltz in here and we are going to divulge every secret we know.


"barnes place, catstairs, spruce flats falls, logging equipment near forney creek trail, manway between chimney tops and surgar mtn trail, enkaneetlee manway, the manway up mt crammer. so please don't post anything about these spots"

You have an impressive resume, I'll give you that. Do you have any pictures or trip reports to substantiate your resume?
last edited: 2/04/08 4:41:13 AM”

“chili - I was thinking the same thing. What was it we named that guy again? Ranger Rick?”

“I've got a TR somewhere, of a Ranger Rick we met a few years ago -- might have even been 2001.”

“WTF? My post disappeared.

Once again..


Yes, dayhiker, he was a piece of work. Had the "suit" and everything.”

“Don't forget the nametag.


I did pick up a tip from him on putting your water filter in a 1L bottle and then using it to filter from in low flow spring situations.”

“chili
11:57:43 AM
7/30/06

“I have had the opportunity to meet three of the Ridge Runners in GSMNP. Glen was a dead ringer for stikmon and was a pretty good guy who hiked in and out with no fanfare and kept the shelters up and in good condition. He was most interested in peoples skill level, whether they were ok on the trail and almost as a sidenote, whether they obtained reservations.

I only met the second guy once and he seemed to just make sure everything was ok on the AT.

The new guy is a piece of work. He spent the better part of an hour going over the "rules". Dressed in a uniform, wtf was up with that?, he proceeded to give us the rules about not peeing in a privy, not eating in the shelter, and on and on.

We named this guy Ranger Rick. Funny thing was that everyone we met on the AT who had met this guy all said the same thing...."what a d!ck"”

http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/44862,-1.php
last edited: 2/04/08 8:55:29 AM”

“You sound alot like him TD, lol.”

“TD - that's the guy. Longlost named him on our trip. We ran into others that gave him the same name.”

“LOLz.. y's that?”

“Seems like he was from Boston or somewhere in the NE. Am I remembering that correctly?”

“Dude thought he was the total authority for all thing connected with the GSMNP.

Dressed up in something akin to a boyscout uniform to make it look like he had some authority.

Apparently his overbearing attitude caused some type of riff with the Administration because he was quick to "give the disclaimer" that he wasn't a ranger.”

“chili -- remember that dude at BSF?”

“Officer Justice?”

“Yeah, that dude, however, WAS a ranger and was packing a sidearm.”

“heh.. I had totally fogotten about that incident, chili.”

“That was the first....and I hope last..time a 5 foot ranger tells me to "c'mon, we are going to headquarters to get this settled".”

“Yep, most ridge runners are cool.
I've run into an exception too.

She looked askance at a pack saw we carried to clear blowdowns and stated "I get nervous when I see saws on the trail." and then launched into a LNT diatribe. (never mind the full size shovel we were packing to clear water bars too.)

We handed her our LNT certification cards and our trail maintenance log, looked at her dreadlocks and said "We get confused when we see dreads on a white girl."”

“LOL, what did she say to that?

Do they actually have any authority? If you had basically said, "Well, we'll agree to disagree," and walked off what would have likely happened?”

“Ha, I met and hiked with the first, and perhaps only, female Ridge Runner. I believe her name was Trudy, but I need to check my notes to be sure. We met at Cosby Knob Shelter and enjoyed campfires each night at Cosby Knob, Tricorner Knob, Pecks Corner and Icewater Spring Shelter. She hiked out to Newfound Gap, while I headed to Mt. leConte Shelter, before returning and exiting down Low Gap Trail to Cosby Campground.

At Icewater we did meet a Ranger about dusk. He was headed toward Pecks Corner and was equipped for boar hunting. His rifle, or shotgun, had a large, spot light attached to it and he carried the battery back on his back in a day pack.

Upon my return I did see a large boar, dead, just off the AT to the south and very
close to both the AT and Hughes Ridge Trails.

By hurrying at one mile per hour, I enjoyed a 10-days trip, 9-nights, one of many such trips.”

“Do they actually have any authority? If you had basically said, "Well, we'll agree to disagree," and walked off what would have likely happened?�
dayhiker
2:54:43 PM
2/04/08

NO...they do not have line authority. BUT, the do carry radios and it would probably be a pissed off ranger who hiked up after being summoned by a trail runner.

I have never seen them do that and even when someone is without a permit, they usually "educate" the offender on what is expected in the backcountry. Glen was superb at that and for the most part was an "ambassador". Ranger Rick, on the other hand, would probably call for "backup".

I would pick my battle carefully if I had to take a ridge runner to the mat on something.”

“Just curious more than anything. In HPM's example, he's not doing anything wrong. Having a saw is no big deal as long as you're only cutting downfall which is why that was my example. If I was misbehavin', I'd expect to get taken down.”

“Actually while I was trying to be diplomatic a member of our party blurted that out.

She just gave us a blank look.
Diplomacy was much strained after that.

What blew my mind was that the saw was folded up and sitting on a pack. It wasn't like we had downed a tree and were in process of making matchsticks out of it.”

“Descretion is the better part of valor:

A friend from college told the story about when he was a metal head in HS with hair to his ass. In 9th grade gym the teacher (retired military with artificial leg) said, "With that long hair, has anyone ever confused you with a girl?" Metal head buddy replies, "No, with that wooden leg, has anyone confused you with a chair." This was back in the day where corporal punishment was still common. Buddy got that ass lit up by gym teacher.”

“I pretty much wrote off that night and went to bed super early. The blurter couldn't seem to keep his damn mouth shut the rest of the night either.

It's one thing to disagree, quite another to make an ass out of one's self for no good reason.”

“Agreed. I seem to waffle between both sides of that line way too often. Dealing with clients has made me better at it, but I still bite the toes from time to time 8)”

“I understand where you're coming from seeing as how i'm new.
I have some pictures on my facebook.
When I hike with my hiking buddy he takes the pics. And even at that most of the time we are too busy moving along that we forget to take pics. sos we dont have an insane amount. as far as trip reports i dont write any, i just remember the scenery so i can daydream about the beautiful things i've seen.
I've been hiking for years with my good friend hiking Dan. We've been friends since high school. We've mostly go to the smokies and hike although we do goto other areas along the AT to hike. We dream of making it out to Glacier NP someday. We also go backcountry canoeing in random spots. And sometimes we take off on road trips to a secluded beach. In the winter I ski and he boards. and in the summer we play paintball. I like rock climbing but i dont have any ropes or gear.
When we goto the smokies we go offtrail to get away from the crowds. I love the solitude of being alone in the woods. I love the smells and the sounds and the sights. My parents own a patch of woods behind their house. I used to spend every minute in those woods. There i taught myself all the things a boyscout knows. Sos i can start a fire with sticks, i know basic surival #&%!$, i can build an impromptu shelter, make little traps, build a tee-pee. I built one that still stands on my parents property. It's a little larger than your average sioux tee-pee. I know common trees and plants but thats it.
If we are hiking on trail we usually fly past everyone cause we hike fairly fast. We get up Mt. Leconte via Alum Cave in 2hrs and 10mins. All the way to the shelter with our 50lb or so packs. (We usually take up a lot of beer.)Beer tastes so good after u work hard for it:) If we dont have our backpacks on and we're jsut dayhiking we usually run the trails. All of this for a couple of guys who drink and toke. Don't worry we believe in Leave No Trace sos we pack out all our beers cans.
I've got all my own gear for backpacking and canoeing. (I've gotta fix my canoe cause it sprung a leak. I jsut gotta get off my lazy ass and do it.)
Well I've babbled a little more than i should have but i guess it's what you wanted to know. I gotta go cause i've gotta goto class.
I look foward to getting to know all of you guys better.
~Peace~
theAntelope”

“Sounds like you're doing good. Being mostly alone I guess it was difficult to pick up much modesty.

You've put up a lot on information in your posts. Most of it, however, could have been picked up right here by reading and/or in conversations. I don't doubt your interest in the Smokies, etc., or that you are experienced. However, I have not changed my mind from my initial impressions. I think you are one of the previous posters here on TT, and until I see reason to change, I'm judging you to be a Troll. Maybe we can meet someday, so that I can change my feelings.

I looked for your "facebook." Without it I can't really see your pictures. However, I have plenty from that area as well as those in my memory.”

“Where are you from, antelope?”

“How many times you been up Alum Cave trail to LeConte, and what's your typical exit route?

Believe it or not, I've never actually hiked that trail. Do you know how many other routes there are in total?

I will assume Dan exists. Gregg was mine, but I lost track of him sometime after we both turned 18. Last I heard he was doing architectural/solar in Colorado.

I've never backpacked beer. I have no idea how many cans would add up to about 35lbs.
last edited: 2/06/08 5:58:43 AM”

“1 Liters = 2.2045855 Pounds but I can't search for the spec gravity for beer unfortunately...

Assuming similar results, A 12pak of cans would come in close..

By the way..



And this would be where?
last edited: 2/06/08 7:27:09 AM”

“Dang, why are yall putting this guy under the bright lights? He may or may not know the secret handshake.”

“Kinda looks like a spot on Low Gap Trail.

Leave off the third degree routine already would ya?”

“HPM -- but it's so much fun!

"I've also read about three forks. I was wondering how overgrown the breakneck ridge manway leading in was and if it is easy to find."

ok antelope. maybe this will help.

Getting to Three Forks
There are two trails leading to it, and both begin at the McGee Springs campsite (#44). The campsite at Three Forks is on the opposite bank, right where Left Fork comes into Big Pool.

** The “Breakneck Ridge” manway is the quickest and safest, and is probably one of the oldest trails in the Park. Age does not mean obvious, and it’s easy to loose your way. Please note that the manway can be divided into two parts:

1) The part from McGee Springs that goes west to the top of Bearwallow Top

On the first part there is fairly good correspondence between the manway and the deviations where we might take a more open way through the woods. The whole idea is just to get there, and the trickiest part is figuring out which is Bearwallow Top. (It's the highest point on Breakneck ridge but you will go over a couple of prominent points before you get to it.)

2)The part that goes northwest down the mountain from Bearwallow Top to Three Forks

Now let’s assume you’ve made it to Bearwallow Summit. The printed track portion of the manway fell out of use about twenty years ago, so our path will somewhat follow the current manway from Bearwallow summit down to Three Forks. When we leave Bearwallow summit we will go straight and then begin to veer right as we drop. At first the woods are open, and we’ll pass a large tree on the right that has an aluminum tag with a number on it. Soon the trail enters the rhododendron and from there on the whole trip is straightforward, except for one place. We cross a boulder field near the top and it’s hard to see the trail on the other side – so we need to make sure we’ve got it spotted before we begin to cross the field.

** Going down McGee Prong and then down Right Fork is slower but your chances of getting lost are zero. Just go north to the campsite and keep on going north down McGee Prong. When you get to Right Fork, turn left and keep going. This route is the easiest one to follow and has the potential for all kinds of accidents on slippery rocks. If you’ve got good rock-hopping skills and good balance it isn’t bad, but most people usually don’t go down that way.
last edited: 2/06/08 8:56:30 AM”

“#&%!$, I have been all over the park, but if you just give me a picture and say, "where is it"...I would just have to guess in most cases.

That pic could have just as easily been upper Meigs falls.”

“I dunno, rocks in streams in the Smokies are very rare. lol”

“The sideways ballcap leads me to believe just upstream from the Wye.”