Universal Health Care

“If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free

Wise words.....thanks, NC.”

“One of the best lines I've heard is from John McCain when he said something like "If you think Government should run HealthCare then go to your local airport & go through security"!

Meant a lot to me since (A) I'm in the healthcare business, specifically providing software to government-funded Health Centers, and, (B) I travel a lot for business & have to go thru TSA security @ airports all the time - what a frikkin joke!

I'm not suppprting McCain in this comment, I'm just saying he's 100% correct in using TSA as an example of how the gov't can f@ck up anything they're responsible for!

NO, I DON'T want them taking over HealthCare - it's screwed up enough now as-is, we don't need for them to make it worse! :)
last edited: 5/05/08 1:25:24 PM”

“Hey-ull yes, look what the government did to Iraq..........AFU”

“Surgical strikes on the wrong patients....?”

“I've been in the Universal Healthcare system directly, in Italy. Hillary is a moron, a gigantic govit loving moron, for trying to sell America Universal Healthcare. Italy's is all to HEYALL. If you thank America's healthcare cannot be more screwed up than it already is, you better thank again!”

“When this country has 27 law schools for each Medical school, but we still are trying to figure out our medical problems in terms of social v private operation-have we gone mad?”

“This article should be required reading for anyone proposing Govt. healthcare.”

“hooray for anecdotal evidence! even if it doesnt empirically, statistically, or rationally prove our point, it makes us FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL better about our emotionally-reached conclusions

hooray!

:-P”

“Hooray indeed!

Perhaps someone needs some universal mental health care.”

“Sick people should be banned from any health care - govermental or privat - than horrible things like these would NEVER happen!*


*(At least not within the responsibility of the health care system)”

“Brilliant!!

Aren't you supposed to be in Bumcrack, Idaho?”

“they've got 'taters out there.”

“Gots taters in your bum crack?”

“You know, we already spend more per person on healthcare than any other Industrialized country... yet we fall WAY SHORT in results.

I think we're spending over $7K per person per year right now...

Japan (best helathcare system in the world) spends about $5K per person per year...

So... IF you were to raise my taxes by $5K per year and provide the same healthcare system Japan has... it'd be a NET GAIN of over $2K per year IN MY POCKET!

AND I'd have good healthcare.

Certainly a WIN/WIN situation, don't you think?”

““I've been in the Universal Healthcare system directly, in Italy. Hillary is a moron, a gigantic govit loving moron, for trying to sell America Universal Healthcare. Italy
's is all to HEYALL. If you thank America's healthcare cannot be more screwed up than it already is, you better thank again!”
naked ape

I know Gov't run healthcare CAN be disasterous... BUT, you KNOW there are systems out there that actually do work. Perhaps that's the only key. Model ours after one that works (i.e. Don't model it after Italy's system)...

There is another OBVIOUS problem with Privately Run (for Profit) insurance companies: It's a conflict of interets. The more treatments and therapies they pay for, the less money they make. It's in their best interest to deny coverage as long as possible.

And I saw the story of the C-Section death... but there are endless stories of people dying because their insurance company said the treatment was "experimental"... or the insurance company found an "i" that wasn't dotted or a "t" that wasn't crossed on the members application... and therefore their entire policy is void! ...or simply the delays in getting thing authorized were so long that the patient died or had major complications...

So... you can't really sing the praises of Private Healthcare either...

The biggest problem I have with Gov't run healthcare would be the types of people that are drawn into it... they get their job... they get their paycheck... and then to do as little as possible until they retire. (at least that's the kind of behaviour's I've seen in State run Universities ... and in State Gov't offices...)

Neither seems to be a very good idea, really.

Thing is: If I'm paying my taxes and working then I think it's in everybody's best interest to make sure I'm healthy so I can keep working and paying taxes... so... it seems that I should be able to get medical care whenever I need it without having to worry about it.”

“What's taters?
On Wednesday I am flying to Denver and next Saturday I am flying on to Bumcrack Idaho.”

“.....Gov't run healthcare would be the types of people that are drawn into it... they get their job... they get their paycheck... and then to do as little as possible until they retire. (at least that's the kind of behaviour's I've seen in State run Universities ... and in State Gov't offices...)


ickyma
12:55:10 PM

OUCH, MarkO. That has to hurt! LOL”

“That's hilarious coming from a non-working bum!
LOL

Taters are pomme de terre, Euro.
That is some for which Idaho is famous.”

“I'm in healthcare, too... Pharmacy side of things... My livelyhood depends on this, too...

Still, I tend to think it's best for all if we can all see a dr. And get treatment whenever we need it :shrug:”

“�Gots taters in your bum crack?�
MarkO
12:27:23 PM

......says MarkO to the ER nurse "I fell on it, I swear!"”

“Pomme de terre.....
That is something for which Idaho is famous.”

“BTW....

Don't forget that we already have several "Social Programs" that we LOVE!

The Police
The Post Office
The Fire Department...

for example...

So, the simple idea of a "Social Program" being a "Bad Thing" is not an argument that holds up...

The single biggest problem with us achieving a working and effective Universal Healthcare system will be the Lobbyists from Drug Companies and Insurance Companies... IMHO.”

“Don't need a health care system when you get your daily TaleTalk inoculations.”

“icky....you truly were off in the broom closet with hand lotion during Government class weren't you? Fire/Police etc are "government agencies" The Post Office is a Private organization.

Police and Fire respond when there is a true emergency. If you misuse them you will be charged.

Universal Health care will just open the flood gate to "wanna get" patients. Which will (as in Canada and England) result in rationing, and inevitably will result in more and more government control in your little life for the purpose of "protecting your health care"...(LOL) Animal Farm all over again.

As for Prescriptions....my Mother gets hers from Walmart (EVIL WALLY WORLD)...wait...$15 a month???OH MY GOD...thats incredible.”

“They are social programs in that We the Taxpayer pays for everything they do.

The United States Postal Service (USPS) is an independent agency of the United States government (see 39 U.S.C. § 201) responsible for providing postal service in the United States...
...The Board of Governors of the United States Postal Service sets policy, procedure, and postal rates for services rendered, and has a similar role to a corporate board of directors. Of the eleven members of the Board, nine are appointed by the President and confirmed by the United States Senate (see 39 U.S.C. § 202). The nine appointed members then select the United States Postmaster General, who serves as the board's tenth member, and who oversees the day to day activities of the service as Chief Executive Officer (see 39 U.S.C. § 202–203). The ten-member board then nominates a Deputy Postmaster General, who acts as Chief Operating Officer, to the eleventh and last remaining open seat...
...The USPS is often mistaken for a government-owned corporation (e.g., Amtrak), but as noted above is legally defined as an "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States," (39 U.S.C. § 201) as it is wholly owned by the government and controlled by the Presidential appointees and the Postmaster General. As a quasi-governmental agency, it has many special privileges, including sovereign immunity, eminent domain powers, powers to negotiate postal treaties with foreign nations, and an exclusive legal right to deliver first-class and third-class mail. Indeed in 2004, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the USPS was not a government-owned corporation and therefore could not be sued under the Sherman Antitrust Act.[10] The U.S. Supreme Court has also upheld the USPS's statutory monopoly on access to letterboxes against a First Amendment freedom of speech challenge; it thus remains illegal in the U.S. for anyone other than the employees and agents of the USPS to deliver mailpieces to letterboxes marked "U.S. Mail."[11]

Not exactly as you portrayed it...


Those are very Social Programs regardless of the service they render.

BTW, if providing response to emergencies is the requirement then I suggest Healthcare certainly qualifies.

Are you suggesting Cancer is not an emergency? Pneumonia is not an emergency? Broken bones are not an emergency? Infections aren't an emergency?

Really?
last edited: 1/05/09 6:18:39 AM”

“LOL..Okay lets play. Cancer is not an emergency, Pneumonia is Not an Emergency none of those are an 'Emergency"

Emergency is defined as "An emergency is a situation which poses an immediate risk to health, life, property or environment.[1] Most emergencies require urgent intervention to prevent a worsening of the situation, although in some situations, mitigation may not be possible and agencies may only be able to offer palliative care for the aftermath."

Since each of those situations can exist in a patient and do not require "immediate" intervention. Cancer...jeeze very few "cancer patients" are stabalized in the ER. Pneumonia? Nah, there are lots of people who go to their GP or ride it out (now if it does happen to become a situation where Respiratory Arrest is imminent...yeah) but it is not a "911 EMERGENCY.

Finally broken bones? UM you call 911 and get rushed to the ER and depending on the bone you will sit in the ER waiting room for hours because it is NOT Immediatly life threatening.

Icky its whiney little feel goods that make emergency services so difficult. None of those is a life threatening situation in normal circumstances. Therefore your whiney argument is dismissed.”

“So, should high income taxpayers pay income tax on employer provided policies, even if they are amendments to the social coverage?”

“I'm saying that if you have Cancer you would consider it an emergency that must be dealt with as quickly as possible. Same for pneumonia...

WRT broken bones... I personally know a girl who broke her femur so badly it severed her femoral artery and she damn near died! Broken bones can be life threatening for sure.

Of course every broken bone isn't, that's why ER's use TRIAGE... but still, ALL broken bones should be dealt with and treated.

I own a pharmacy and I have actually seen people die from infections... and cancer...

I think that when peoples lives are at risk they need not worry about how they're gonna pay for their treatment.

"We hold these truths to be self evident... LIFE, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."

So... Life doesn't really count to you? Really? I'm bettin' you're a Christian, too, right?”

“Did Dylan count to you?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/01/03/baby-died-because-hospital-had-no-one-on-night-duty-to-do-c-section-115875-21013171/”

“I am glad and appreciate very much to live in a country that has one of the best health care systems in the world. Particulare since I was watching CNN reporting about the health care system in the US, were the poor don�t have access to adequate health care. There was a group of medics and doctors, traveling across some poorer areas, giving free treatment to people who otherwise can�t afford it. They had set up a couple of large tents (like the army has in the MASH series - you know, with Hawkeye, Hotlips and Ltd.Klinger�) and long cues of people were waiting in lines to get in. Is this the United States of America? If there wouldn�t have been so many �white� people seeking help, I would have thought this is somewhere in one of those third world countries. Dentist were treating tooth problems by pulling teeth. That�s like treating a simple fracture by amputating the limp.
Nah, I much appreciate the health care system I get over here.”

“CNN reporting
It must be true! It's on TV!”

“Certain states are virtually "third world", Euro.

The tax money from wealthier states goes to help offset the inadequacies of those poor states.
Otherwise things would be downright medieval.”

“Still pi$$ed, MarkO? LOLOLOLOL”

“Pissed??

No, I haven't had a thing to drink today.”

“Seriously, gentlemen, you can't call it health care if even a man like XL has to send his poor old mum to Walmart when she needs medical attention!

XL, maybe you should pay her a trip to Switzerland. In this country she can get treatment from real doctors and not some Walmart cashier.”

“Ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!

Now yer gettin' it, Euro!”

“I'm glad it's working for you, euro, but it sure didn't work for Dylan.”

“Nah. Firefighting should be returned to private enterprise and all the firefighters hired as independant contractors. Then you can shop for your own health insurance on the open market.”

“You'd be surprised how many people come in to the er with taters in unusual places....”

“I personally know a girl who broke her femur so badly it severed her femoral artery and she damn near died! Broken bones can be life threatening for sure.

LOL, you're a doctor right?...then you should know that she didn't "damn near die" from the broken bone but the severed artery...THAT is an emergency, not the broken bone
last edited: 1/05/09 9:34:07 AM”

“Stovie, a lot more Dylans are dying in the US, UK, Nigeria and everywhere else in the world, every day. For most of us, in the developed countries anyway, childbirth is the most dangerous moment in all our lifes. I have seen statistics about the numbers of children and women dying through childbirth in different countries. If you were about to give birth, you wouldn't want to do it in the US, you would prefer any of the Europaen countries and indeed even some of the Asian countries.

Of course, Switzerland is one of the safest countries to give birth. Swiss is simply best.”

“Of course, Switzerland is one of the safest countries to give birth.
Euro hike
12:50:28 PM
1/05/09

That's because the doctors all have those army knives.”

“A fracture can also result in an embolism ---- then it's 'lights-out'.

The AMA, the insurance industry and the drug companies dump mountains of money on PR every year and it appears to pay off, in Washington and public opinion-wise.

[insert photo of Billy Tauzin here]

But it's been a dozen years since "Harry & Louise" and now another 20 million Americans have no health insurance.”

“Of course, Switzerland is one of the safest countries to give birth.
Euro hike
12:50:28 PM
1/05/09

That's because the doctors all have those army knives.�
lumberzac
10:04:05 AM



If you are a talented and well educated doctor that's all you need!
last edited: 1/05/09 9:57:37 AM”

“Statistically I'm sure Switzerland is quite safe as you say it is.

I "helped" deliver my three sons and in each case we had care as good as it gets.

Sadly, that doesn't apply to all Americans.

Too bad I didn't get to use an army knife to cut the cords. They made me use those funny-looking bent scissor thingies.”

“a bandage scissor?”

“I guess Dylan was just another aborted child to you socialists.”

“

Those dang umbilical cords are some rubbery rascals!”