Muslim Scouts in Boise

“I have volunteered to help a scout troop of 11 boys here in Boise. They are 10 Muslims and one Catholic. Most are ethnic Turks, their ancestors moved from Caucusus to Uzbekistan. Their parents and grandparents have recently arrived in the U.S. and Boise. One scout is from Sudan. Among them they speak Turkish, Russian, Arabic, Dinka, Uzbeck, and Azerbijan, and they are all learning English. Their parents work at low end jobs, have no cars, have other kids at home, so they don't go on scout trips. The scouts are very excited about scouting and camping, and most apparently have a U.S. flag hanging in their homes.

So far these kids have camped only in their scoutmasters back yard. I'm hoping to get them out on some real backpacks this summer. They need drivers and cars, and I have some ideas about that. They also need some gear.

If you have any real small packs, or older dome tents you are done with, or old but workable stoves and cooksets, or small boots that are still decent, this would be a great way to put them to good use. I'm hitting up Rotary for some $$ to buy gear with, but I figured the TT crowd might have some old gear lying around waiting for a worthy cause. Mail stuff to:

Bob Shaver
1515 Shenandoah Dr.
Boise, ID 83712”

“America at it's best !!!! Good Job Idaho. I'll see what I can get rid of.”

“That is very cool, Bob. I'll pilfer the gear boxes and see what I could send your way. don't have much in the way of little clothes but I may have some pots, pans, cups and what not. Will look and see. Gave away a bunch of my gear a while back...”

“You rock Bob.
I'll see what I can rustle up.”

“I cleaned out the closet a few weeks ago to help out another troop, but I think I can find a few things.

What are your feelings about Coleman ApexII stoves?”

“Bob. give me a rough idea how big these kids are. Ages or sizes, approx. please.”

“I have a bunch of stuff I can send.”

“They are from 11 to 15, and the most are closer to 11. For 11 year olds, they are VERY small. One of the younger boys is very short, but fat. The two 15 year olds could use a women sized pack and boots, but a pack for the small boys would have to be the smallest made. They have summer wt. bags bought at Big 5 (bulky, heavy and not warm).

Not familiar with Coleman Apex II. I'll look it up. Our troop can give them our old Coleman Peak Ones, with crappy cook sets.

Tiny size nylon pants would be great, or small rain coats, plus small items like stuff sacks, fuel bottles, baseball hats, liner gloves, old thermarests or foam pads. Their tents are $25 Big 5 tents. They must be pretty cheesey. The scoutmaster likes Big 5 for the price.”

“The Apex II would be a big improvement to our old Peak Ones.”

“I wish I were there to help you, Bob. I gave all my extra stuff to the local troupe when my kid was in Scouts.

Doug”

“Your not serious are you. Don't do it.”

“OK, I'll be the first to call this one "Troll!"”

“it's a nice change to see muslim in a tread title and have it not be fuego

as for supplies, i'll check”

“I'll send pictures from out first hike.”

“http://www.eurekacampingctr.com/eureka/

If you are hitting up people for gear money here is a place you need to know about. They are the Eureka Outlet center. They are located in NY but do business all over. They have a number of programs for recycling used but usable tents and such specifically for scouting groups. It might be worth looking into what they can offer. If they know it is for multicultural programs they might be more willing to cut even a better deal. They are part of the Johnson Outdoors group and really have some good stuff.”

“Bob,

Is there an REI near you? Know anybody who works there? From their Corporate webpage: REI employees can nominate organizations, projects, and programs in which they are personally involved to receive funding or gear donations. More info here. Worth a shot for a great cause! Best of luck.”

“Bob, I have some 6.5 Merrills from when BrianSean was smaller. Let me look at other stuff and see what i can find to send to you.”

“This is sad news.”

“bob, I've got a pair of Montrail shoes, womens 9.5 (mens 8.5). They don't look girlie and haven't gotten too much use. Can you use em? Also have a bicycling jacket to send. It's wicking and would be good for hiking. Lemme know about the shoes, please.”

“These guys have $13 running shoes from Big 5 now (plastic, super cheesey), so some decent small sized hiking or walking shoes of any kind would be an improvement. They will probably wear them to school, but they'll get good use out of them.”

“Bob, any diet issues? kosher might be good (same food laws as Hallel).
last edited: 2/28/08 9:47:11 AM”

“Don't know about the diet yet, but I guess I'll find out when we go on some hikes. I don;t know their religious habits either. I guess the Turks lived without indoor plumbing in their home countries, and are pretty good at cooking. The Sudanese kid was treed by a lion when he was 5.”

“How you doing on packs? I got one or two I could send your way. And yes, in manly colors ;-) Hehheh!! No hot pink.”

“No packs yet. I think my troop will give them 5 peak one stoves and steel cooksets, our old ones. I have heard that $$ might be available from REI, and a friend of mine works there and is checking it out for me. The most needed packs would be small ones, but these kids will grow into big kids in a few years, so medium or women's size packs would also be useful soon enough.”

“Okay, how about knives? Does the BSA allow pocket knives/swiss army knives, etc. ?”

“BSA says no fixed blade knives, just folding knives, as in pocket and swiss army knives.

I think I figured out why they say no fixed blade knifes, when I was rummaging around in my pack lid to find a headlamp by feel, and then I thought, want a minute, my Mora knife is in there, and it sometimes slips out of its sheath, and if could slice myself really good if I grab it by accident. I can't think of any other reason to ban fixed blade knives.”

“oops, my plan to give them our troops old Coleman Peak One stoves got shot down. Our old stoves have leaks, and need to be refurbished before they can be used. I'll find out what model they are and see what parts for them cost.”

“Bob,

I've got 3 or 4 Coleman Apex 2 stoves I can send, along with parts and fuel bottles.

We have a clean up and work day scheduled for Sat. I'll get them cleaned up and ready to ship then.”

“Regarding Hallal food restrictions,
my understanding understand that it is similar to Kosher, but the meat must be slaughtered and the blood let out, plus other religious restrictions....(I think the animal has to have its head facing Mecca when slaughtered and other rules like that.)

I understand that vegetarian fare or fish may be an okay substitute.... (I work with students in Dearborn, MI, where the population of Muslims is one of the largest outside of the Middle East.) So, if you can't get Hallal meats and it's an issue, you could probably go with tuna or some other kinds of fish. It really depends on how religiously strict the childrens' families are...

Also, keep in mind...if the students are Muslim, I understand that they have to pray at certain times of the day....

Definitely check on those 2 particular issues prior to camping, so that all of the kids are comfortable with the setting...

Hope you have fun-- what a great thing for you to do! I'm not sure if Thinkbubelz and I have any extra gear, but I'll check and see. If there is anyone else from the Detroit area who might be sending out some stuff, maybe we can join together to save on shipping costs....?

One other question-- would knitted caps be helpful? I am a knitter and might be able to convince a few friends to knit some hats for the boys?”

“I'd like a hat.”

“i found those boots Bob. now i'm going to figure out what gloves BrianSean has grown out of.”

“The Apex stoves would be great, the boots and gloves also. The knitted hats depends on what they like, as young kids fitting into U.S. culture in grade school and Jr. high. I'll find out when we do some activities. Good tips on the food and prayer practices. Thanks to all!!!”

“pertaining to prayers... muslim faith uses a prayer carpet or cloth. The exact details I can not provide you, but depending upon the level of devotion to the faith they will need/want to take such an item with them. It would be well worth the while to invite a local imam or muslim cleric to provide some cross cultural education to the leaders if the kids are practising their faith. Boy Scouts does recognize Islam ain their religious achievement medal, it may be wise to start with those resources.”

“That's the first time I've ever heard a Christian reverend actively trying to spread the Muslim faith.

Funny, this coming from the SAME "Christian reverend" who was so adamant AGAINST Christians demonstrating their faith on the trail.

Wowza.”

“It appears that, once again sarge is showing his ignorance. Boy Scout leaders are specificly prohibited from dishonoring a scouts choice of religious conviction. To do so would be against the scouts own rules. As one who understands the importance of faith positions, regardless of whether I agree with them or not, it becomes important to learn how to honor them. So grow up and get it right. Learn before you open your mouth and prove yourself a fool.”

“Not here please.”

“They actually have a mullah, and he has approved the boy scouts for the boys. Apparently the families are a pretty low key and tolerant kind of Moslem.

I figure they are American citizens now, and very proud of it. At this point, the more exposure they get to Americans the better. I can respect their faith, and I won't try to convert anyone to anything except backpacking.

However, backpacking seems to be a pretty good way to meet people and have a conversation around a campfire. That can't hurt. It might make these kids able to stand up against intolerant Moslems if they ever run into them, because they know old Idaho Bob from their youth was a good guy, so probably most Americans are good guys too.”

“I wonder if they could use Tyvek prayer rugs? (just wondering out loud, not really expecting an answer).

Bob, I've got to find a box and then there'll be some stuff headed your way. My goal is to post it by next Monday.”

“I have a couple of cooksets and thermarest UL's. I have them boxed, but it'll be a few days before I can mail them.”

“Bob... I only spoke up cause I've stepped in more than one pile of crap because I just didn't know what other people took for granted. It can be really easy to to do something that we normally think of as no big deal and have it backfire. I think what you are doing is great. My thing was I could just see somebody saying, "oh you don't need that piece of carpet. It weighs too much leave it home". I like the tyvek idea. For that matter a poncho might serve the same purpose. I don't know, but it is a question I would want to ask someone before I got too far into the packing process.”

“gracias.”

““It appears that, once again sarge is showing his ignorance. Boy Scout leaders are specificly prohibited from dishonoring a scouts choice of religious conviction. To do so would be against the scouts own rules. As one who understands the importance of faith positions, regardless of whether I agree with them or not, it becomes important to learn how to honor them. So grow up and get it right. Learn before you open your mouth and prove yourself a fool.” - ramblinrev

Speaking of fool, I didn't say ANYTHING about dishonoring their faith. Not even close.”

“http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/islam_in_the_us/41772

"if one is traveling and the prayer rug is accidentally left behind, a clean towel will do."

Seems the intent is to make sure the prayer surface is clean. So I would think tyvek would do if it was something reserved for the prayer and not used as a ground cloth under the tent as well.
last edited: 3/05/08 11:14:41 AM”

“Don't forget to drop that unused gear in the mail, folks. Small kids boots would be well used by these kids. thanks!”

“Still hunting for a box Bob. Haven't forgotten, promise!”

“Don't let tiltypoo hear about this.
His brain might dissolve. ;-)”

“Bob, I have two platypus baldders, and I think I have a pair of boots somewhere. They are women's size 7. Would those work? I don't want to pay the shipping if you can't use them.


And I just wanted to say Pppplllttttt to Sarge for saying ramblinrev is 'actively spreading the Muslim faith". He ain't spreading their faith, he's showing tolerance for others. Dangit, aren't Christans supposed to be tolerant?


Bob, let me know if you want the stuff. I'll see what else I have. I think I have some stuff sacks too.
last edited: 3/17/08 4:38:45 PM”

“bob, check with local church or civic groups to see if you can borrow a passenger van or mini bus to take the kids on the trips. There's bound to be one that won't mind a little outreach to a muslim group.”

“Smiley Girl, I'll bet they can use a womens size 7, because they are in all sizes from small 11 year olds, to 15 year olds, and like all kids, growing all the time. If they don't fit now, they will in a month, and they are probably better in support and sturdiness than the $13 running shoes they have now.

The platypus I'm not so sure of, because gatoraide bottles work just fine, and require less upkeep. Your decision about those items.

I've gotten several volunteers to drive them, so when we get a firm calendar we will start getting drivers lined up.

I can't wait to get them to a high alpine lake, and see if a whole new world opens up for them.

Rev, I'll check on the diet and the prayer habits before any trips. I think these guys are pretty easy going Muslims.”