1 In Every 99 Americans Now Behind Bars

“No prob or is that Noprob no ,just legalize prositution and sell hunting stamps like for dear or is that deer. ie, $33,587.oo plus tax and handling for one OJ stamp.
last edited: 2/28/08 12:48:44 PM”

“NoProb: I can tell.”

“Noncon: I don't think anyone is saying this will alleviate all of the problems that come with abusive drug use. I think it began as a discussion of one way to help alleviate the pressure on our prison system.”

“I don't believe that legalizing drugs is going to cut down on drug abuse, but I am not sure. Does anyone know if the legalization of alcohol increased alcohol abuse, or deceased it for that matter?
last edited: 2/28/08 12:54:03 PM”

“Rape and murder have a victim envolved. Who is the victim of selling and buying a f--king weed--I know the taxpayer that spends trillions on the only war dumber than Iraq or is that Occupation of the most helpless nation.”

“�That is because we arrest people for drugs, which is stupid.�

I just saw a documentary on heroin. In China, the heroin problem was skyrocketing so the government took a hard line on drugs.

They would go to the drug users house and take each member of the household, no matter the age, tie their hands behind their backs, make them kneel and an officer would shoot them in the back of the head. Each body then flopped face down and stayed there until a little peon police officer grabbed it by the ankles and pulled them flat.Each family member would be led out, made to kneel beside the dead one and the process was repeated. In the footage shown on the documentary they shot 8 people out of one house before moving on to the next.

THAT is effective drug control. In the US drug control will never end unless the punishment fits the crime. I am not advocating shooting drug users and their families, but I do think that our laws are so lax it is pathetic. How can a person get 15 DWI's in this country? I do believe that the government could win the war on drugs they just don't want to. Closing the border with Mexico would stop almost all of the drugs coming in to the country. If you don't control your borders, you cannot win.”

“Salebored, the victims are the people who are robbed or killed because somebody needs money to support their drug habit. The victims are the children of users who go without because the parents are spending money on drugs when they should be providing for their children. Same is true for alcohol abusers. Not all users are bad people who kill and rob and put their children at risk, but to suggest their are no victims is just wrong.”

“You have to have a very limited view of the real world to actually believe that drug abuse is a victimless crime.”

“Closing the border with Mexico would stop almost all of the drugs coming in to the country.

Not true. Marijuana is grown in country. Meth is manufactured in country. Designer drugs are manufactured in country. Heroin comes from China. Maybe it would slow the coke trade and some crappy brick weed but that is about it.”

“At best it's a poor allocation of resources based on someone else's morality.

What is 'freedom' or 'liberty' when you have no control over what you put in your own body? (FDA doing a SPLENDID job on the the food safety front, BTW).

You can go on vacation for half a month a thousand miles away from home, but when you return to the job the corporation can make you piss in a jar like a lab rat (we must have that peak productivity at all times).

Is that freedom?

Have we allowed ourselves to become domesticated animals?”

“Dang, I come back an hour later to see if there is a response and we are on page 2 already.”

“"If you want it legalized, it's ok to argue something stupid, but if I do it, I'm sick...."

ProblemO, I didn't say legalize anything, I said take the profit out of the illegal trade.

You need a new name, dude.
You have a huge PROBlem with me.
Go play with yourself and get happy.”

“OK. So how about this. Legalize pot. That would clear out at least a couple of million people from prison and jail.”

“Do you think we should legalize pot for everyone, or just those 21 and over?”

“It would have to be regulated like alcohol. The govt. could make a pretty penny taxing pot.”

“So many of the problems blamed on drug use are in fact effects of criminalization.

The Drug War is Big Business, now.

Incarceration is Big Business.� Private prisons are a growing sector of the Drug War Economy.”

“"It would have to be regulated like alcohol. The govt. could make a pretty penny taxing pot."

That could take the profit out of illegal sales.
The illegal market, for that product at least, might collapse.”

“"Incarceration is Big Business. Private prisons are a growing sector of the Drug War Economy."

One might even say that is a racket.”

“I wonder how many lobbyists they have in Washington these days? � � < WINK >”

“$wise second biggest in lobby Cal.

Showing that sinners will be punished is big time and they hand out in taxpayer funded hideouts with steeples .
last edited: 2/28/08 2:04:27 PM”

“Rosey, after reading your response to my statement I decided to check up on the facts. I have come to the conclusion that you are right and we don't need to close the border with Mexico.

WE NEED TO CLOSE THE BORDER WITH CALIFORNIA!!!!

In one report on Marijuana I saw this....
"California grows the most cannabis, followed by Tennessee and Kentucky."

Then on Meth..
"The reality is that 80 percent of meth comes from Mexican drug cartels operating here, in the rural expanses of Central and Southern California."

And heroin..
"Afghanistan produced more than 90% of the world's opium poppy during 2006, and is the world's largest heroin producing and trafficking country. However, Mexican processors and growers supply a large share of the heroin distributed in the United States, even though Mexico produces a relatively small percentage of the global supply of opium poppy and heroin. Additional intelligence indicates that Colombia is the primary source of heroin used east of the Mississippi River."

As a side note, what other war was fought in a large heroin producing country, using clandestine and special ops forces and has been suspect in heroin trafficking?? hmmmmmm”

“Yeah, I wasn;'t gonna bring that up but yup, Cali is know for HUmboldt County's finest and the trailer trash meth labs up at Clear Lake. Yeeehaw.

I was up in Vancouver a few years ago for the Millenium. The wife and I took a stroll through Land of the Walking Dead Needle Park. Very eye opening. Talked with some of the locals. Word was that lots of junkies congregate in Vancouver b/c of the shipping boats from China unloading massive amounts of heroin. They can get it pure before it's cut and trickled down elsewhere.”

“I would have to say..... Cambodia!

(and the other areas of the Golden Triangle)”

“Here's what this thread is supposedly about: one out of every 99.1 adults is in prison.

So... before we start debating about all the questions we could raise regarding who should be imprisoned for what crimes.. my question to consider is this:

We're talking about LESS THAN 1% of the total population! Do you, philosophically, believe that number to be outrageous? (I can honestly state, that of the last 100 people I've met, I have been more than a little concerned about at least one of them having a terribly negative impact upon society!)

Do you think 100% of the population out there is just fine & will have no negative impact on the rest of us regardless of their drug habits, alcohol abuse, past crime history, etc??
last edited: 2/28/08 2:43:27 PM”

“Who here is advocating amnesty?”

“Who here said somebody else here is advocating amnesty?”

“I give up. Who?”

“I don't know. I was hoping roseymonster would tell us.”

“I am too busy buying crack from the neighborhood crack dealer and contributing to the overall denegration of society's moral fiber to answer right now. Sorry.

Oh yeah, it was a rhetorical question to Wanderer's post.”

“Hmm ... wanderer, were you saying that some on here were claiming amnesty? I must have misread your post.”

“Do you think 100% of the population out there is just fine & will have no negative impact on the rest of us regardless of their drug habits, alcohol abuse, past crime history, etc??

This is the implied statement.”

“I don't think he's saying anywhere in that statement that some people are implying there should be amnesty. It should like he's saying that it seems only reasonable, based on casual observations of his environment, that 1% of the population has done something to deserve jail, therefore we, as readers of this statistic, shouldn't be concerned that there might be an inappropriate amount of people in prison. He almost seems to be saying, there is probably a bunch more that should be, but didn't get caught.

I don't know, what's the deal wanderer?”

““Do you think we should legalize pot for everyone, or just those 21 and over?”
Creek Dancer
4:14:03 PM
2/28/08

This is the most important issue about legalization and the MeFirsers barely even notice it. Should you be able to grow pot in the family garden if you have kids in the household? What if your neighbor kid raids your fields? Should you be held responsible for contributing to minors? Will you be able to buy cocaine at 7-11 or will it need to be from a pharmacy? Plus, how are you gonna tax it if its home grown? What about health issues? Will they have to have labels and warnings like on cigarettes, hamburgers, plastic bags, etc?

On first blush I would like to say legalize it too, but there are a lot of issues involved that just can't be waived away with .”

“My point was what Sarge mentioned, is it unreasonable to suggest that 1% of the population has done something to deserve jail?

That's one out of 100 people... I just don't think it's outrageous to suggest that society mught be better off (or safer!) if 1 out of 100 people might have committed some crime that deserves them being put away... maybe not jailed forever, certainly, but to be put away for some limited time as a result of commiting burglary, multiple drunken-driving convictions, etc., doesn't seem too unreasonable given all the problems we see in certain segments of our society!

Rosey, my statement had nothing ro do whatsoever with "amnesty", I re-read your post 1/2 dozen times & couldn't understand how you interpreted that?”

“Don't most companies do random drug testing? If not why not?”

“They should legalize all drugs.”

“One of the reasons why the U.S. with only 6% of the world's population has 30% of the world's economy is that we imprison criminals. Criminals committing crimes on the street instead of doing time is an enormous drag on our economy from the directs effects of crime and theft, to the indirect effects of private security and insurance rates.

Only about 5 percent of inmates in federal prison are there because of simple possession, most of which have plea-bargained down from major trafficking offences or more violent drug crimes.

Alaska�s tried to legal marijuana in the 1970s, but this led to the state�s teens using marijuana at more than twice the rate of other youths nationally. In 1990, the voters re-criminalize marijuana.

Six times as many homicides are committed by people under the influence of drugs, as by those who are looking for money to buy drugs. Legalize drugs, more murders.

Since legalization of marijuana in Holland, heroin addiction levels have tripled. Zurich experimented with what became known as Needle Park where addicts could openly purchase drugs and inject heroin without police intervention. Crime went up instead of down, and the experiment was terminated. The Dutch police do not enforce drug laws. So addicts flurish supporting themselves by welfare and commiting crimes. The Dutch have not raised one dollar in tax revenue from drug sales, and drug violators account for 50 percent of the Dutch prison population.”

“Good info that should settle it.”

“Nigal I actually agree with the legalization end of the argument IF and only IF we put some strict limits on "what we will do for treatment"

I work with alchoholics and drug addicts in a treatment program and there are some that get it and get straight and turn out to be some of the most dedicated and hard workers you can get. There are others who will play the system and the "Victim" status going for a free ride for life.

I say, three chances at rehab. Thats it. If after 3 you are rushed into the ER there will be a permenant DNR assignment on your record. They will make you comfortable and let you die. Sorry but these are the few leeches in society.

Now as for Tilty's little rant about "companies" requiring drug testing...I know in his little New Castrati society you should be paid and compensated and really not asked to perform...But Tilty I think one you get out of mommy's basement you will find if you go to work for a company (i.e they are paying you) you are contractually obligated to do what they say (within reason)...if you don't like it..LEAVE ...you moron its a FREE COUNTRY.”

“Noncon: I don't think anyone is saying this will alleviate all of the problems that come with abusive drug use. I think it began as a discussion of one way to help alleviate the pressure on our prison system.�
roseymonster
1:49:30 PM
2/28/08


Yeah, I got that, I was just jumping into the fray of legalization vs non. I think it was a ridiculous notion in the first place that our prisons are overcrowded with casual drug users.”

“Minish I am not saying legalize the crimes. Just allow people to use what they want ALL they want. Now if say Bozo gets hammered and is pulled over...nail him. If he commits a crime under the influence NAIL HIM for extra time. Make em WANT treatment. And after three tries, they are (to quote the preacher in Blazing Saddles) "On Your own".”

“I would not have a problem with legalization if it would fix the problem.

One of the reasons why the U.S. with only 6% of the world's population has 30% of the world's economy is that we imprison criminals. Criminals committing crimes on the street instead of doing time is an enormous drag on our economy from the directs effects of crime and theft, to the indirect effects of private security and insurance rates.

Only about 5 percent of inmates in federal prison are there because of simple possession, most of which have plea-bargained down from major trafficking offences or more violent drug crimes.

Alaska�s tried to legal marijuana in the 1970s, but this led to the state�s teens using marijuana at more than twice the rate of other youths nationally. In 1990, the voters re-criminalize marijuana.

Six times as many homicides are committed by people under the influence of drugs, as by those who are looking for money to buy drugs. Legalize drugs, more murders.

Since legalization of marijuana in Holland, heroin addiction levels have tripled. Zurich experimented with what became known as Needle Park where addicts could openly purchase drugs and inject heroin without police intervention. Crime went up instead of down, and the experiment was terminated. The Dutch police do not enforce drug laws. So addicts flurish supporting themselves by welfare and commiting crimes. The Dutch have not raised one dollar in tax revenue from drug sales, and drug violators account for 50 percent of the Dutch prison population.�
prosecutor
5:05:15 AM
2/29/08

I just don't think it would fix the problem.”

“Criminals were under the influence of drugs at the time of offense for 28.2% of violent offenses, 35.4% of property offenses, 36.9% of drug offenses, and 18% of public order offenses. These statistics underscore the fact that drug-related crimes would not diminish with legalization.”

“Thats right minish..but you take the "government FREE MONEY" out of the cycle. Hey if you are healthy and cannot find work...you know starvation is a great motivator.

My only disagreement with legalization is the "innocent victims". I have seen way too many broken homes, and damaged innocent kids from parents on drugs and alchohol.

There are many things I would tie into the legalization. Since in essence they will be wanting to waive their responsibility for being productive...sterilize them. And hold the menfolk responsible. If 14 year old junior knocks up his "geerlfrin" he will have 18 years of $200 a month support to pay (MINIMUM) if he cant' momma loses that much out of her check for him until he turns 18 and then we will FIND him some work.

SOrry”

“Treating illicit drugs as benign would take us back to the late 19th century, before the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906 was enacted, when patent medicines were laced with dangerous drugs. Pharmaceutical manufacturers sold their narcotics through inaccurate advertising at the expense of the general welfare and the poor. Reformers realized then that powerful, addictive narcotics could act as a terrible form of regressive tax -- not only transferring wealth to an elite group of manufacturers but also robbing the poor underclass of the ability to generate income and savings and lead productive lives. Just a little something for the lefties.”

“XL you know that's never going to happen. Hell we can't even make fathers take care of thier children.”

“take the "government FREE MONEY" out of the cycle. That would fix the problem within a couple of weeks.”

“Never going to happen !!!”