1 In Every 99 Americans Now Behind Bars

“But XL, Clinton did it without killing any innocent Iraqi's.”

“so rosey, at what age should pot be legal. 5yo 12, 15, 17, 18 21?”

“Experience has shown that many murders are committed by people high on drugs.

experience has also shown that many murders and other violent crimes are commited by people drunk on alcohol. are you gonna get behind a movement to criminalize alcohol?

And experience has shown when you legalize drugs, drug use goes up.

say what? when was the last time we actually legalized a recreational drug?

experience has show when you criminalize drugs, violent mob/gang activity increases. what happened when we Prohibited alcohol in the early part of the 20th century? it sure didnt hurt the organized crime contingent”

“ban booze?
I am a very happy drinker. anyone that gets an email or a phone call from me knows this :)
it's all good.

what scares me is this. there has to be well over 100 people that have regestard here on TT. so that means some of you (dare I say) fellow backpackers have been in jail. but yet, for some odd reason I am still willing to go into the woods with you. well if you are going to kill me, bury me deep. I am not into feeding the wildlife ya know!~!
oh and leave my cloths on, the thought of dying naked freaks me out big time”

“Crash Bang asks, " when was the last time we actually legalized a recreational drug?"

Alaska�s tried to legal marijuana in the 1970s, but this led to the state�s teens using marijuana at more than twice the rate of other youths nationally. In 1990, the voters re-criminalize marijuana.

Since legalization of marijuana in Holland, heroin addiction levels have tripled. Zurich experimented with what became known as Needle Park where addicts could openly purchase drugs and inject heroin without police intervention. Crime went up instead of down, and the experiment was terminated. The Dutch police do not enforce drug laws. So addicts flurish supporting themselves by welfare and commiting crimes. The Dutch have not raised one dollar in tax revenue from drug sales, and drug violators account for 50 percent of the Dutch prison population.



You get violent crime with legalized drugs and with illegal drugs. But violent crime goes up more when you legalize drugs than when it is illegal.”

“fair enough. but you didnt answer my other question:

you gonna get behind a movement to criminalize alcohol? after all, if drugs being illegal cuts down on crime, the same should hold true for alcohol”

“crash hush up already about booze. i never hurt anyone. well if you call calling roamaround in the middle of the night a crime.”

“besides, has anyone proved that legalization was the direct cause of the increase in crime? things dont happen in a vacuum. there are always other factors

for example, global warming coincides with global industrialization. doesnt mean one caused the other”

“And yet Holland has lower overall rates of drug use and far far lower numbers of people jailed for drug use and overall crime than America?

also the average age of heroin addicts is increasing, which indicates a degree of success in terms of eduction.”

“currently drugs are illegal and booze isn't. There is no requirement that someone who wants to keep an illegal substance illegal should also have to lead the fight to make a legal substance illegal.”

“There is no requirement that someone who wants to keep an illegal substance illegal should also have to lead the fight to make a legal substance illegal

there is if he wants to be considered consistent”

“anyways, i didnt say "lead the fight" i said "get behind the movement" quite a big difference”

“umm crash are you still a member of the

FIRE FLIES CLUB?”

“So where are all the bootleggers today? � Where are the speakeasies? � It's silly. � I know.... Let's ask someone whose entire career depended on the system to paste something in for us about the Dutch (again). � The U.S. really is so much like the Netherlands except for the drug laws, eh?


But I wonder..... how many innocent people have been put to death by the state? � (in the United States, not the Netherlands) � Shouldn't people who knowingly prosecute an innocent person for a capital crime or give false testimony be tried for attempted murder?”

“I'll ask creek dancers question again, but I know no one will respond because the whole problem with legalizing drugs is what to do about underage use... At what age will be drug use still be illegal under the legalization plan? cana amom and her 10 year daughter do coke in the privacy of their home?”

“I think Prosecutor's approach is symptomatic with what's wrong with the system. Just blindly treating the symptoms while not looking to treat the cause.

Not necessarily saying legalization is the answer - but maybe more realism is needed.”

“Hyway - 21 or 18 - level things off with alcohol. You'd also look at things like punishing the person providing the drugs to the youngster. We draw these age lines all over the place, adding one more isn't a problem.

I mean if you can create a legal framework around alcohol, there's no reason why you couldn't do it for other drugs.
last edited: 2/29/08 8:55:55 PM”

“At what age will be drug use still be illegal under the legalization plan? cana amom and her 10 year daughter do coke in the privacy of their home?��

gee, sorry no one answered your question. maybe no one answered it because its beside the point of the discussion. but to answer, it seems pretty obvious that drug usage age and alcohol and tobacco usage should be similar”

“I don't think that is what most people who want to legalize truly believe. maybe it is, but I'd like to see them say it. Legalize pot for everyone 21 and older. I'm all for that. But I don't think it will reduce crime.”

“BTW, how is the affect on our children of legalizing drugs besides the point of the discussion.”

“��I don't think that is what most people who want to legalize truly believe

well, youre not talking to most people at the moment. youre talking to me

BTW, how is the affect on our children of legalizing drugs besides the point of the discussion

im not going to get into an argument about the argument. i will concede you win at internets”

“crash, creek dancer asked that question early on. I followed up a little later and then asked again tonight. I was not just asking you, I was asking everyone who wants to legalize. What will be their proposed rules for legalization as it pertains to our children. All people want to do is state the bumper sticker slogan, and never discuss the actual nuts and bolts of legalization. "Just give me my doobie man thats all I care"”

“i dont think anyone (on this board, anyway) is arguing for letting ten-year-olds smoke dope or shoot heroin”

“I just heard what the street value is with PILLS, all I can say is OMG we could be rich. zanac goes for $20.00 a pill
vicodin goes for $7.00 a pill

that is insane”

““And yet Holland has lower overall rates of drug use and far far lower numbers of people jailed for drug use and overall crime than America?

also the average age of heroin addicts is increasing, which indicates a degree of success in terms of eduction.”

The thing that amazes me is that the vast majority of crimes committed in the "war on drugs" is a direct result of the "war on drugs". Now stay with me here. Take away the crime and we do away with...

...Overdoses have become a thing of the past (with regulated drugs there is no guessing as to what a drugs strength is).

...police now have 100% more time to chase down truly violent criminals rather than fighting the war on drugs.

...the spread of AIDS (needles are plentiful and no need to share and reuse).

...desperate crime falls off the radar (yes it is still there but because of the drop in price anyone can run down to the corner store for a fix, rather than breaking into the neighbor's apartment).

...Violent crime in the pursuit of drug money has fallen to next to nothing due to the drop in price of drugs.

...half the prison population is reduced at once (the majority of drug offenders in prison are leisure users, not Tony Montana).

....More people now receive proper rehab (paid for with tax money gained by the sale of drugs).”

“Crash, If you want to outlaw booze go for it. I will sign your petition. There is nothing inconsistent about obeying the law.”

“no, bacpac, i'm saying drugs AND alcohol should both be legal.

OR

drugs AND alcohol should both be illegal

otherwise, you have a double standard”

“In this particular case, what is wrong with a 'double standard'?

Double standards are typically a bad thing only because the person with the ds is trying to gain an advantage over somebody else in an unfair way. I'm not sure that's the case here.”

“ok crash, we agree that 10 yr olds shouldn't do drugs. What about 20 year olds? I personally think its stupid that a 20 year can't frink alcohol, but thats the law. So will 20 year olds be too young to buy pot from walmart?”

“The controlled industry has definite advantages over that of the Alcohol: more risk- more reward. Until free market standards are employed , the more of this country will be destroyed.
last edited: 3/01/08 7:07:16 AM”

“Crash, there is a recognized medical benefit inthe moderate use of alcohol.

There is no recognized medical benefit in the use of any marijuana or hard drugs.”

“Pros, I happen to know a man who has AIDS and he uses marijuana for nausea. It's the only thing that works and he wouldn't be able to eat or live without it.”

“Drugs legal or not and all the other things that sit on the fence of legal or illegal should have the same consideration as guns. They sure are nice when they save your ass, but are nasty as hell when you or yours is the victim.

Get practical, the drug war as with the occupation of how much foreign real estate blunders just cost far more than their worth to the few that benefit from them.
last edited: 3/01/08 7:20:05 AM”

“there is a recognized medical benefit inthe moderate use of alcohol.


and only a small fraction take it past the point of moderation, right?”

“Schedule I listing of marijuana is a lie perpetuated by the drug control industry and the morality industry. � Originally it was implemented to control minorities.

Has the disparity between punishment for powder v. crack cocaine been addressed? � Or are minorities still being given 10 times the jailtime as the country club types?”

“There you go again thinking that a white collar is no different from a blue collar or, holy no controlly, no collar at all.”

“I think it has more to do with who has teh money for legal defense than it has with the color of their skin. case in point - OJ has money, OJ walked.”

“OJs color and money combi sprung that turkey.”

“When my wife had cancer the meds were worse than the chemo. Her doctor, "off the record", recommended getting a little pipe and smoking a little marijuana...it worked wonders. It alleviated the nausea and gave her her appetite back. The drugs she was legally prescribed only made things worse.

I have several friends who are doctors and they recommend the same thing. They also say they would prescribe it if the feds didn't make such a "federal" case out of it.

Alcohol is THE gateway drug.

I don't know a single person who has done crank, acid or any other heavy drug that didn't start with alcohol.
last edited: 3/01/08 8:31:09 AM”

“steve, are you saying none of those people smoked dope too? Or if they did, are you saying that alcohol leads to pot?

It was OJ's MONEY, not his color, that allowed him to hire lawyers that could stack the jury, outgun the prosecutors and manipulate the media. If you say it was his color that allowed him to get off then you can't argue that its color that makes the crank laws worse than coke.”

“I'm saying that all those who say pot is THE gateway drug, conveniently forget to mention that every pot user started on booze.”

“The social aspects expose these options and alcohol is the social mixer.

The jury was hired?”

“I can understand the anger of a few TTers toward prosecutors in general.
They do tend to sometimes shut down the small drug businessmen.”

“Well I get what you are saying Stovie, but #1 Prosecutors are paid by the people to enforce the law.....#2 Defense Attorneys are paid by the client (sometime the government) to protect the client.

As Justice Clarence Thomas told me,"The American legal system is complicated, aggrivating, seemingly bizzare at times...and one of the worst experiences many people go through. However if you can show us a better process we will look at it.”

“The FDA has found synthetic cannabis sold as Marinol to have the benefits of marijuana without the detrimental effects. Doctors can and do prescribe Marinol because it is better and safer.”

“Anything to keep it from our gardens. Let's have some synthetic government please it's better and safer.”

“Again, if you grow it in your garden, who is to be held responsible if an underage user steals it smokes it and kills someone while driving stoned?”

“Again, if you grow it in your garden, who is to be held responsible if an underage user steals it smokes it and kills someone while driving stoned?�
hyway

Who would be responsible if an underage drinker steals my beer and kills someone while driving drunk?”

“That's why guns are legal. You can shoot the pilfering punks.”

“I think every ADULT of sound mind should be able to abuse their body with drugs any way they want, just don't be expecting the "gubment" to care for them, later.

Personal Responsibility.”