1 In Every 99 Americans Now Behind Bars

“�The FDA has found synthetic cannabis sold as Marinol to have the benefits of marijuana without the detrimental effects. Doctors can and do prescribe Marinol because it is better and safer.�

I would like to see the side by side comparisons of smoked pot and Marinol with Chemo patients. Actually, I would like to see any comparison of Marinol and smoked pot. Do you have a link?

Note: I agree completely with SS on his comment on personal responsibility.

Global warming can't be happening...Hell just froze over ;-)
last edited: 3/01/08 1:01:07 PM”

“ Who would be responsible if an underage drinker steals my beer and kills someone while driving drunk?”
birch
3:23:46 PM
3/01/08
ignore this user

Do you leave your beer outside in your yard? What if you had a keg on your patio and the neighbor kid came over and drank it then drove. You definitely would be held accountable by the law for that. My question is more about what would be the security requirement for growing pot in your yard”

“actually I have left beer in a cooler on the back patio while getting ready for a BBQ party.Not a keg (I prefer bottles).

If the premise is that pot were legal I dont think you'd need added security. If a kid tresspasses and steals then breaks the law by driving high,, its obvious who the criminal is.
last edited: 3/01/08 1:56:38 PM”

“Actually, under that scenario, I believe you could be held liable under the attractive nuisance doctrine and/or be quilty of contributory negligence.”

“Mtnsteve, a dear friend of mine is battling brain cancer. She is 45 and has four young children. She has stage III anaplastic astrocytoma. There is no cure, but her life can be extended with chemo, radiation and now she is trying hyperbaric oxygen chamber treatment. Anyway, she uses Marinol to combat the effects of chemo. It has helped enormously with nausea, lack of appetite and constipation. I am not aware of a side by side comparison, but I am thankful she has this drug to help her.”

“�I can understand the anger of a few TTers toward prosecutors in general. They do tend to sometimes shut down the small drug businessmen.�

LOL. Made me think.
I've been through it all, I've done about every kind of drug you can think of, with the exception of heron. The hardest drug for me to quit was nicotine, by far. The one that caused the most problems in my life was booze. Neither one illegal.

I haven't done illegal drugs in years, but I know about them. I've helped kids get off drugs because they listened to me and respected me.

I was honest with them. I told them that I missed drugs, Hell, drugs can be fun....but you have to pay the consequences for using them. Addiction, arrest, loosing your job, friends and family aren't worth it, not to mention dying. I asked them if they liked being in control (never had a gang banger say no, LOL) then asked them how they could be in control when the drugs were in control of them. I had one kid tell me he listened to me rather than his parole officer because I had actually won the battle with drugs and the PO just read about the battle.

I didn't fix every kid I worked with, but I know at least 6 or 7 that are now off drugs and have good jobs and relationships. They're not perfect, but I don't know too many of us who are.

Telling kids drugs are "bad" when we live in a society that advertises a drug for every problem, that medicates kids to keep them quite in school, tells kids pot is in the same league as heron, sells booze at gas stations, sells candy flavored chew and keeps our medicine cabinets full of prescription uppers, downers and pain killers, isn't going to convince them.

And parents wonder why the kids don't listen.”

“Creek Dancer...I'm thankful your friend has that option now, my wife didn't. Perhaps Marinol will do all they claim, I certainly hope so.

Your friend is on my good thoughts and prayers list.”

“Thanks mtnsteve. Maggie was diagnosed three years ago. She has lived long enough to see her oldest son graduate high school, and hopefully will see her oldest daughter graduate in June.

Maggie is very straight laced, so when she told me they gave her medicinal pot, I dug out my old hippie beads and headed over there with ice cream, chips and some old time rock and roll!
last edited: 3/01/08 2:27:23 PM”

“Perfect!

You're a good friend Creek Dancer.
last edited: 3/01/08 2:28:36 PM”

“I dug out my old hippie beads and headed over there with ice cream, chips and some old time rock and roll!
last edited: 3/01/08 4:27:23 PM�
Creek Dancer
4:25:20 PM
3/01/08



:-)”

“Actually, under that scenario, I believe you could be held liable under the attractive nuisance doctrine and/or be quilty of contributory negligence.�
Creek Dancer

Seriously?

I put some beers in a closed cooler, in my back yard with 6ft privacy fences, step in the house for a few and the scenario plays out and I am fault? That law is an @ss.

Very well said Mtnsteve.
last edited: 3/01/08 3:03:27 PM”

“Directly contrary to what Ed claims, cancer patients state time and time again that smoking marijuana is much more efficacious than the drug company substitute, particularly in settling nausea from chemo and boosting appetite. � But it's arbitrarily classified Schedule I, so good luck getting any studies done. � It's a self-perpetuating racket.

Yes, the FDA is really on the ball.... with contaminated drugs from China coming into the country by the boatload. � Good grief.

The truly insane part is how current policy guarantees a black market. � If you want more drug dealers and gang activity, by all means support the status quo.”

“libbies agree - government is not the solution to our problems.”

“Um Birch, you didn't originally mention the six foot fence. I would think that factor would change things.
last edited: 3/01/08 3:50:37 PM”

“I would think that smoking marijuana would be worse than the synthetic form for people with lung cancer.

I do think though that the drug in it's natural form would be better than adding yet another synthetic chemical to a cancer patient's body.”

“vapor”

“"I do think though that the drug in it's natural form would be better than adding yet another synthetic chemical to a cancer patient's body.�
Creek Dancer
3:53:18 PM
3/01/08

I agree Creek Dancer.

Once you see what some of the drugs do to people you love, taking a couple puffs off a little pipe is inconsequential.

I remember seeing the difference with my wife after two little "hits". The damn Chemo is almost killing them, you think that two puffs are going to make it worse in the long run? They are worried about making it through the day.
last edited: 3/01/08 4:23:17 PM”

“The truly insane part is how current policy guarantees a black market. If you want more drug dealers and gang activity, by all means support the status quo.�

Too true Tilt!

When the Feds came to Shasta County many years ago and asked the Sheriffs Office to join their Marijuana eradication program, they were turned down. They were told crank is the biggest problem we have, will you help us with that, unfortunately the answer was no.

They went to other county's north of us with their promise of big money. They bought into it.

Now what you have to remember is at the time, in Humboldt County, Marijuana was the biggest cash crop in the north state. Everyone knew it, it was run by mom and pop growers who supported the local community. No violence, guns or dope being grown in parks. The price for pot was reasonable, life was good.

Well Camp changed all that. They busted and drove out all the mom and pop operations. Did people stop smoking the evil weed??? Noooooooo

What happened, is prices shot up. Good old supply and demand. The mom and pop operations didn't want their property confiscated (a new law to teach'em a lesson) so guess who moved in? Gangs from Mexico.

The prices had risen so high for your average plant, that it was now profitable enough to send in a few Mexicans, grow what they could and make huge profits. They didn't worry about losing their property, they didn't own any. The worse that usually happened was they were deported. Prices rose even higher, now they planted where ever they could. Help was cheap in Mexico and land was plentiful in the North State. State and National Parks were perfect locations for growing the evil weed.

Marijuana eradication is now a huge business. I know, I sell harnesses and equipment to the DOJ guys and SWAT teams who are involved. I know these guys and the rest of the guys who fly in and arrest the bad guys (when they can catch them) and bring the weed out to be burned. I hear the story's of the old days when they didn't have to worry about being shot at or booby traps in the fields. Back then they would drive up in their black and white and walk up to the farmers door and politely say, sorry folks your busted.

Now they fly in on long lines, under DOJ choppers, in full SWAT outfits waiting for a gun battle. They do love it and they are great people doing a very dangerous job....

but I have often wondered if all this wasn't foreseen years ago, by a hand full of Feds that knew exactly what there were setting in motion.
last edited: 3/01/08 4:30:26 PM”

“That's good that you were able to help her that way. How is she doing now mtnsteve?”

“dude, I could read to the end of that if I weren't so high, man.”

“She's been cancer free for 14 years this June. Thank you for asking.

I'll never forget that day in the doctors office when we got the results of the biopsy. I was with her for each doctor visit and every Chemo treatment. It was the toughest thing she and I have ever been through.

If the pain don't kill ya it will make you strong. We have been married 37 years now. I'm proud as hell of her.”

“That's so great to hear Steve.

Best well wishes to your friend, Cindy ---


It's crazy that these issues get tangled up like they do.”

“birch, under most states underage drinking laws you would indeed be held responsible, but with the fence around the yard, you might be able to get out of it. An underage drinker can lose their license for a year just for not passing the breathilizer regardless of whether they are driving or not. My coworkers kid just got a citation for underage drinking on the beach (legal for over age people to drink there). I at first told her to not worry because I remember those citations just being a fine and nothing else. But it has changed quite a bit since the age first went up to 21.

I have no problem with smoking pot. Smoked plenty of it myself. Popped pills, snorted coke, licked stamps, etc. (never did the needle thing, though). I have no problem with pot being legal, nor coke, or any other recreational drug. My problem is with people who think we can just pass a 1 sentence law saying pot is legal and thats that.

The notion that you will be able to grow your own then sell it on the shoulder of the road between the guy selling oranges and the guy selling collards is ludicrous.

Also, if on the one hand you say people have the right to intake into their bodies whatever they want, you can't on the other hand expect me to pay for their drug treatment programs when their life falls apart.

Show me a realistic plan to legalize drugs and I will vote for it, but just saying "dude, free the weed" ain't a plan.”

“Make the Steeples pay taxes will give a start. The US government is in desperation mode. We've made so many mistakes trying to police the world and control the behavior of our own that we've totally forgotten the purpose for which this country was formed. Having China pay our oil bill and our hotel bills in Iraq and Afghanistan and now we've decided to have Europe build our military air tankers with a ghost contract with Northrop. We still, Broke as we are, want to build more room for the prisoners of the drug wars. Maybe Bush has the secret, "$4.oo gal gas? Never heard that one before". hehehehehehehehe
last edited: 3/01/08 5:42:33 PM”

“well ... now we know what topic it takes to awaken salebored out of his encephalitis stupor.”

“I have an inlaw that is one of our leading authorities of the subject and not even he has a solution. Failure of the drug war has shown how the opposite result can be achieved by spending trillions when the country allows military tactics against it's own people that are way smarter than any war mongers can assemble. I don't talk much to the proffessor anymore about the subject, he is frustrated by all the hoops that fill his path.
last edited: 3/01/08 6:09:26 PM”

“We ARE WINNING the war on drugs. Overall drug use is down by more than a third in the last twenty years, cocaine use has dropped by an astounding 70 percent, and 95% of Americans do not use drugs, all the result of using the criminal justice system.”

“",,,95% of Americans do not use drugs"

Now thats just a lie.

Unless you made a mistake and meant illegal drugs.

Did you make a mistake Pros?”

“Prohibition creates more problems than it solves.”

“i'm sure ed meant illegal drugs. but even then, i have a hard time believing 95 percent”

““Prohibition creates more problems than it solves.”

Now thats just a lie.

Unless you made a mistake and meant "doesn't".

Did you make a mistake Tilt?”

“People Arrested for Drug Law Offenses this Year... 324,950

Arrests for drug law violations in 2008 are expected to exceed the 1,889,810 arrests of 2006. Law enforcement made more arrests for drug law violations in 2006 (13.1 percent of the total number of arrests) than for any other offense.

Someone is arrested for violating a drug law every 17 seconds.

Yep, were winning.”

“Using that logic, let's stop the war on murders.”

“Like a deer stamp on a hunting License and I could write a long shopping stamp list.

Just use 1920-1932 and alcohol as your guide. The criminal would we live evolved in those years to a strength that will never be stopped, but it is that freedom we have- innocent until found unable afford to defend yourself.”

“Welp, ... salebored cleared that up for us.

What next? Our dependence on foreign oil?”

“So CrashBang, do you think the number of people who do not use illegal drugs is higher, like at 98%? whatever your belief, what is the source of your belief? The figure I used came from the DEA. And that is consistent with the observations I make from my everyday common experiences and knowledge.

As to the number of drug arrests, it is more of an indictment of the revolving door policy of the law enforcement system. In Cook County (Chicago) where I prosecuted drug cases for over two decades, a drug defendant needed about five convictions before being sent to prison. The vast majority of drug defendants never took advantage of the drug treatment programs and just saw them as legal scams to defer themselves from jail or prison time.”

“well, of course the DEA is going to give you high (no pun intended) numbers. i'm surprised theyre not telling us 101%”

“if that 95 percent was drugs other than marijuana, then i'd believe you. but if thats including marijuana, i have a hard time believing it. granted, thats just from personal experience, but i also live in a rather conservative part of the country, so if someone from hicksville indiana thinks that figure is off, imagine what someone from somewhere closer to the norm experiences

and again, i just want to reiterate that the excuse that alcohol in moderation is beneficial is a bunch of hooey. im sure it is beneficial in moderation, but most people that i know or know of drink way past the beneficial phase and into the take me drunk im home oshifer stage
last edited: 3/02/08 4:53:58 AM”

“Half truths and lies.

Pros knows that the Government pads it's numbers to look favorable. He just wont admit it.

I have SEEN one of the big busts where they claimed over a million dollars in marijuana. It was in a pickup truck. They were counting 8" plants the same as if they were 8 feet tall. They have been doing this for years.

Anyone who takes what the Government says as absolute truth is a fool.”

“but but mommy would never lie”

“As to the number of drug arrests, it is more of an indictment of the revolving door policy of the law enforcement system. In Cook County (Chicago) where I prosecuted drug cases for over two decades, a drug defendant needed about five convictions before being sent to prison. The vast majority of drug defendants never took advantage of the drug treatment programs and just saw them as legal scams to defer themselves from jail or prison time.�

Thank you for admitting it's a failed system and you were a part of it.

That took more courage than I had given you credit for.
last edited: 3/02/08 8:19:05 AM”

“Mtnsteve, got any better numbers.

And I am glad you agree with me how drug programs rarely work for criminal defendants, and how they are used as a scam by most. The way to make the system work is to reduce the scamming by screening out most of the bogus requests by arrestees just seeking to avoid jail or prison time. I did my best to object to those seeking to abuse the system so those limited resources wouldn't be wasted on people who really belong in prison.”

“
I can't wait to see the new Drug Wore propaganda show I just saw the commercial for on Spike.

The DEA needs to raid the freakin' FDA ----- or at least crack open some containers arriving from You Know Where.

Flood of drugs, little oversight
by David Greising and Bruce Japsen
TRIBUNE REPORTERS
March 2, 2008

By the time St. Louis Children's Hospital called in its infectious-disease specialist Jan. 4 to diagnose a mysterious spike in allergic reactions to kidney dialysis, it was clear there was a major problem.

Three patients had become ill after taking the blood-thinning drug heparin. One had developed the same reaction during a dialysis treatment in November. Minutes after dialysis needles punctured their veins, the boys' lips and eyelids swelled. Their blood pressure dropped, and their heartbeats raced at dangerous levels.

When infectious-disease specialist Dr. Alexis Elward homed in on the problem -- putting high on her list the drug made by Baxter International Inc. of Deerfield -- she became the first doctor to alert the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It wasn't until late in February, though, that Elward and others learned that no U.S. or Chinese government inspectors had visited the Chinese plant that produced the drug now linked to more than 400 illnesses and as many as 21 deaths across the U.S.


� � � � � Will anyone be going to prison for This?


”

“�Mtnsteve, got any better numbers."

Thats difficult to do when the Government is in charge of the accounting. You and I both know what I stated is true. I noticed you did not deny it.

I agree that current drug programs rarely work. That just reinforces what we have been saying....the system doesn't work. I don't believe you will solve the problem by locking up addicts longer.

When I worked for the hoods in the woods program, we had the highest rate of kids that did not go back into the "system" in the state (at the time). There are programs that can and do work. We had to fight to get funds to keep the program going.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I know that simply locking up addicts and those that abuse drugs won't fix it. It's not the Governments responsibility to tell others what they can do with their bodys. Let folks poison themselves if they want. It didn't work with prohibition and booze, it wont work with drugs.

On a similar note. If I'm not mistaken, since they have made prostitution legal in some states, they have not had a reported case of AIDS transmitted by the working girls. I could be off on that, but thats what I remember. How well has making prostitution illegal worked?

We need to get the Government out of the "personal responsibility" business.
last edited: 3/02/08 9:33:59 AM”

“Tilt, are you the one guy still in the alley behind the bar while the other ninety eight are inside? I can't understand why you insist on picking on those nice guys that brought us,'Lead from a Red'.”

“8% of all E.R. visits related to alcoholism”

“My favorite part of this thread is when the people who know someone who knows someone who read something or did something (along with the people who parrot others holding the same view as themselves) second guess the guy who has twenty years experience.”

“Using personal experience in order to support an argument is a fallacy and makes the support invalid.

Experience does not equate fact.”

“nm :-)
last edited: 3/02/08 3:38:04 PM”

“lol.

But, experience is subjective and biased. While that time you did fall and at the end of it hit the ground hard, not all people who fall 40 and hit the ground will hit it hard. Therefore, can be argued that experience is relative and cannot be presented in any form of support. ;)”