Humans Almost Went Extinct 70,000 Years Ago

“Human beings may have had a brush with extinction 70,000 years ago, an extensive genetic study suggests.

The human population at that time was reduced to small isolated groups in Africa, apparently because of drought, according to an analysis released Thursday.

The report notes that a separate study by researchers at Stanford University estimated the number of early humans may have shrunk as low as 2,000 before numbers began to expand again in the early Stone Age.

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"This study illustrates the extraordinary power of genetics to reveal insights into some of the key events in our species' history," Spencer Wells, National Geographic Society explorer in residence, said in a statement.

"Tiny bands of early humans, forced apart by harsh environmental conditions, coming back from the brink to reunite and populate the world," he added. "Truly an epic drama, written in our DNA."

Wells is director of the Genographic Project, launched in 2005 to study anthropology using genetics. The report was published in the American Journal of Human Genetics.

Previous studies using mitochondrial DNA � which is passed down through mothers � have shown that all modern humans share one female ancestor (out of thousands), the "mitochondrial Eve," who lived in Africa about 200,000 years ago.

The migrations of humans out of Africa to populate the rest of the world appear to have begun about 60,000 years ago, but little has been known about humans between mitochondrial Eve and that dispersal.

The new study looks at the mitochondrial DNA of the Khoi and San people in South Africa, formerly known as Hottentots and Bushmen, who appear to have diverged from other people between 90,000 and 150,000 years ago.

The researchers, led by Doron Behar of Rambam Medical Center in Haifa, Israel and Saharon Rosset of IBM T.J. Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights, N.Y., and Tel Aviv University, concluded that humans separated into small populations prior to the Stone Age, when they came back together and began to increase in numbers and spread to other areas.

Eastern Africa experienced a series of severe droughts between 135,000 and 90,000 years ago, and the researchers said this climatological shift may have contributed to the population changes, dividing into small, isolated groups which developed independently.

Paleontologist Meave Leakey, a Genographic adviser, commented: "Who would have thought that as recently as 70,000 years ago, extremes of climate had reduced our population to such small numbers that we were on the very edge of extinction?"

Today more than 6.6 billion people inhabit the globe, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

The research was funded by the National Geographic Society, IBM, the Waitt Family Foundation, the Seaver Family Foundation, Family Tree DNA and Arizona Research Labs.”

“and now we're like a virus with shoes”

“During the Jurassic period CO2 was four times higher than it is today. Dang polluting dinosaurs.”

“Timeline and other unknowables aside.... I would agree with the premise that humans almost went extinct. It is not at all implausible. But of course I would place the cause of the near extinction with the "flood". Just my 2 cents. Not worth flaming me IMO.”

“youre funny”

“hehe crash... I do find it interesting tho that science shows a massive drop off in the species. I'm not going to offer it as proof of anything but I do find it fascinating. Just as mitochondrial DNA suggests a single common female ancestor.”

“except the biblical flood and the garden of eden supposedly only happened a few thousand years ago, seeing as how the earth is only 6 thousand years old if you read the bible literally”

“crash... while I will admit to being a young earth adherent, I do acknowledge that the times lines are in fact unknowables. There are objective reasonable arguments for both. And this is my last notation on the issue as I had no intention of getting involved in a flame war.”

“youre funny”

“Thank the Gods for genetic mutations huh?

Dodged a big ole bullet there. Way to go humans!”

“flood / drought ... I can see how one could be confused for the other”

“it was all george bush's fault.”

“interesting story”

“I find it interesting that I have not belittled your beliefs, in fact I have acknowledged some level of credibility to them, yet you find it required to belittle mine. Oh well.... guess that's par for the course.”

“1. According to biblical scholars (which I am not) the great flood occured in 2304 BC... the date comes from Genesis 11:10 where it is stated that Shem was 100 years old 2 years after the flood finished. This is about 4,000 years ago.

2. The event the scientists are referring to occured 70,000 years ago.

So according to the Bible this "mitochondrial Eve" could not have been the product of the great flood.

...actually... according the biblical scholars (which I am not) the Earth itself is less than 10,000 years old. So a 70,000 year old "mitochondrial Eve" is actually 7x older than the Earth itself.

Yes, something is wrong here...
last edited: 4/24/08 8:20:45 PM”

“I have acknowledged some level of credibility to them

thats because theyre very credible.”

“the great food?”

“that would be the mitochondrial twinkie”

“Correct the Mitochordial eve is not a product of the flood. Nor doe the article say the mitochdrial eve is a product of the extinction. In fact it says exactly the opposite. So that's a wash.

One last ocmment... without primary documentation we are left with interpretation of observed evidence. Since neither side has primary documentation, we are left with unknowables because interpretations are fallible. So folks.... credibility is in the eye of the beholder.”

“ID'ers and young earthers have not presented one WORKING THEORY involving the creation of the universe, earth or man. that is why they have no credibility. all they have is "goddidit", and poking at the gaps which science has not filled yet”

“hmmm... I was not aware that I was required to present a theory for your approval. The gaps that science "has not yet filled" may be unfillable gaps as well. So again, it is a wash. I'm done.”

“I was not aware that I was required to present a theory for your approval.

if new earthers/id'ers want their ideas to be taken seriously, then yes, they have to present a theory. thats how real science works

. The gaps that science "has not yet filled" may be unfillable gaps as well

they are unfillable only because we will probably get to the point where its all too much for even the sharpest of us to understand. every answer we find raises 10 more questions. but because something is incomprehensible is in no way leading to the conclusion that "goddidit".

so, no, its not a wash
last edited: 4/24/08 9:03:01 PM”

“respectfully, there is a huge difference in these two positions.

science is based on useful theories that make predictions that can be verified. even if you miss seeing the pebble dropped into the pond you can look at the expanding rings it caused and see where it struck the water, estimate the size of the stone, estimate it's trajectory, etc, etc. then you can drop a pebble in the water and see if you can get the same pattern of rings that you just observed and gauge how accurate your estimates were. if you got it wrong you can revise your theory and try again. that's science.

religion is all about faith... the acceptance of that which can not be verified. you can say that the rings in the pond just appeared on their own and nothing caused them to come into existence. there is nothing to prove. the theory makes no predictions. so while there is nothing WRONG with the theory it's not very USEFUL because it doesn't make any predictions. that's why science doesn't make theories like this.

for example: scientists have developed an understanding of mitochondrial DNA such that they can empirically predict that the human race was almost wiped out. there is no reason to expect that our understanding of mitochondrial DNA is in any way linked to the information contained in the geological record. yet the geological evidence supports this claim... verifies the theory that the human race was almost wiped out by showing that there was a great drought that occured at the same time.

of course you can say that one day 10,000 years ago god said "poof" and the earth was created much as we see it today. you can believe that the grand canyon was created 4000 years ago by the receding waters of the great flood. you don't have to prove ANY of this because you accept them as a matter of faith.

when, however, you accept these articles of faith as a matter of scientific theory then you have the burden that every scientific theory must bear: the predictions they make. so, for example, the geological record offers a lot of observable evidence that the grand canyon was created gradually over millions and millions of years, not in a few years by a great flood 4,000 years ago. another example: we just read that scientists can trace mitochondrial DNA back 70,000 years yet the earth is supposedly only 10,000 years old...

the lesson here, as i see it, is that religion and science don't mix because religion requires faith while science denies it.”

“"When you eliminate the impossible... whatever remains.. however improbable... must be the truth."

Sherlock Holmes

And frankly crash, hyway and the rest.. It is immaterial to me whether you take my beliefs seriously or not. It matters not and was never part of this thread. My first posts here were all in 1st person "I" language. If you choose to reject them I could not care less. But I do have the right to express "my" statements without your permission or approval.

Incidentally spindlette, except for the plural gods, I think I can agree with your observation. :?)”

“the reason that some christians cling fervently to a literal interpretation of genesis (and therefore deny evolution) is twofold. one makes somewhat sense, the other is purely visceral.

the first reason is that if they question 1 part of the bible, then that leads them down the slippery slope of challenging any and every part of the bible, which is something they absolutely do not want to do. i'm not just speculating, either. there are christians who have said this. in a way, i dont blame them. wrestling with the question of the fate of your immortal soul is profoundly terrifying

the other is a revulsion to the idea that we "evolved from monkeys", and are therefore just another animal, and not Gods Special Creations
last edited: 4/24/08 9:22:36 PM”

“But I do have the right to express "my" statements without your permission or approval.

yes, you do. whats your point? no one is trying to shut you up.

as much as you have the right to express "your" statements, we have the right to express what we think of your statements

and you have the right to express what you think of what we think of your statements

and so on and so on”

“But I do have the right to express "my" statements without your permission or approval.

i wholeheartedly agree. for as much as i WISH people wouldnt bring creationist nonsense into serious scientific discussions, it would be wholly wrong to ban their freedom of expression”

“"There is nothing as deceptive as an obvious fact� - Sr. Arthur Conan Doyle”

“oh, and sherlock holmes was a fictitious character and a cocaine addict... ;)”

“Sad to say....humans are cancer...everywhere we spread to...we destroy. :o(”

“Stanlee... The Matrix refers to humanity as a virus.”

“yogisan... I rather like how both the Holmes statement and the Doyle statement can actually be used by both sides of an topic like this.

i WISH people wouldnt bring creationist nonsense into serious scientific discussions,


I guess I owe people an apology if that is what I was perceived as doing. My comment was intended to express _my own_ interest at the findings. They were not intended to challenge the findings of the study, nor open the debate over evolution and creationism.

But I find it fascinating when studies like these show up. That's all I intended to do. Express my own fascination.”

“the reason that some christians cling fervently to a literal interpretation of genesis (and therefore deny evolution) is twofold.

You have to remember, I live in small town Pennsylvania. We cling to religion cause we're bitter.”

“Lmao. Damn well done rev!”

“LMAO rev...


theory....it's all theory!!!”

“Worst Than Cancer....
�Sad to say....humans are cancer...everywhere we spread to...we destroy. :o(�
stanlee
12:56:01 AM
4/25/08



Oh brother. I hope you're not another one of "those people" ashamed of being a human or an American.”

“Or even worse.... Canadian!”

“Rev, I wasn't making any comments on your belief system, just found it amusing that you took a study that said a Drought nearly killed off humanity and changed it to a story about a world wide flood. Eerily similar to the style of "accurate reporting" that passes for journalism these days :).”

“It could happen hyway.

In my area, it hasn't rained in about 2 weeks, yet all the rivers are at or near flood stage. We need rain to help prevent the wild fires that have been springing up, but if it does it means everyone needs to head to high ground. Isn't spring weather fun.”

“hyway... re-read the article...

Eastern Africa experienced a series of severe droughts between 135,000 and 90,000 years ago, and the researchers said this climatological shift may have contributed to the population changes, dividing into small, isolated groups which developed independently. (emphasis added)

Paleontologist Meave Leakey, a Genographic adviser, commented: "Who would have thought that as recently as 70,000 years ago, extremes of climate had reduced our population to such small numbers that we were on the very edge of extinction?"


If the droughts were between those dates then it took 20,000 years for the verge of extinction to be reached? Sounds rather vague to me. I see no problem is re-interpreting some of the data. There is certainly evidence of global droughts and famine in the Biblical record. No question about that. Again, I am offering no "proof" of anything. By the same token, I see no "proof" of anything either, except the massive decline in the population. Which I would concur with.”

“Do you get snowmelt runoff in the Adirondacks or is that coming from rain upriver? I am not sure what parts of the country accumulate their snow all winter long then dump it out in the spring. I am a southern boy who lives on the coast. IF we get snow its gone in a day, and even in the North Carolina Mountains the snow doesn't stay on the peaks very long.”

“There are only two statements in the article which I would have a "factual" disagreement with. (Timeline being granted as an unknowable for the lack of primary documents.) 1) that a drought caused the near extinction. 2) that the dispersal of the people groups happened before the extinction and was a contributing cause.

The drought connection is tenuous at best in my view. Further in a drought situation widely dispersed peoples would seem to have a better chance of survival as there is less stress on the resources.

I find it more plausible that the dispersal happened after the near extinction as the population was re-established. On that point... the article would seem to agree placing the migration at "60,000 years". Again, timeline being granted as an unknowable. Other than that, I find the article to be fascinating and highly persuasive.”

“Further in a drought situation widely dispersed peoples would seem to have a better chance of survival as there is less stress on the resources.

Exactly, the people who were already situated away from the high population zones survived, while the people living in populated areas died off from natural drought related causes or killed each other for resources leaving only a handful of people left who stayed as far from other people as they could possibly get.
last edited: 4/25/08 5:43:19 AM”

“The same is also true in the event of a flood. And in the case of the Biblical flood, it would have been impossible for any but the eight to survive. So in reality I am suggesting a much closer brush with extinction than the article is.”

““Do you get snowmelt runoff in the Adirondacks or is that coming from rain upriver? I am not sure what parts of the country accumulate their snow all winter long then dump it out in the spring. I am a southern boy who lives on the coast. IF we get snow its gone in a day, and even in the North Carolina Mountains the snow doesn't stay on the peaks very long.”
hyway
8:14:48 AM
4/25/08

It's because of snowmelt. It was an average snowfall year, but the snow never really melted away this year until a few weeks ago. There are still areas in the peaks that have 2-3 feet of snow still.
Here's a video of a local Dam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZPlKxBSuYI
2006 was the last time water went over the top of the spillway.”

“Or even worse.... Canadian!�
Reverend Truth V Wicked
7:12:43 AM
4/25/08


I shudder at the very thought!”

“LZ, thats a lot of water. I'd love to feel the power in the air around that spillway.

Rev, my point is not whether or not a flood could wipe out humanity, it is the humor that you took a story about a drought and inserted a flood in its place.
last edited: 4/25/08 6:46:01 AM”

“Yeah it is. The good new is the lake behind the dam has dropped about 8" since Monday when that video was taken.”

“Does it look like that every year or is it more powerful because of the late thaw?”

“it is the humor that you took a story about a drought and inserted a flood in its place.
last edited: 4/25/08 9:46:01 AM”
hyway
9:44:18 AM
4/25/08

hehe... Hyway... I think we've milked this one for about all it's worth and the cow is well on to mastitis. I "heard" sarcasm in your original post and for that I will take full responsibility.

only about 8% of what we say is conveyed by words alone and that's all we got on here. So I'm done with the brush with extinction and glad there is snow pack up river from us. Cause we need some rain. Looks like we may get it this weekend. Shazzbot.... but the bright side is, maybe it will help keep the turkey hunters out of the woods on opening day tomorrow. My orange pack is officially retired.”