Obama Lies

“Mutt doesn't get that differentiation Salebored.

You're either invading Iraq or you're a hippy pacifist.”

“Mutt - I don't paint the cartoonist characterization or you. Your posts do that without any help.”

“but a whole other matter to invade and occupy a sovereign nation to revenge a fathers single term as president

And people accuse me of being a wingnut. Good grief, that's the kind of drivel tilt believes in.”

“FFS Mutt - you've not even been able to stand up that BS first post of yours this morning. Bases.... remember!”

“Are you saying the article is false? Or are you saying there was no liberal outcry post 9/11 about US "imperialism"?”

“I'm not as sure as he about the wonders of that global market either, our own dependence on foreign energy is sharp one finger point in that direction.”

“That's a whole 'nother subject.”

“The PNAC was in reaction to HW's single term, by that time the Reagan tyranny was to has taken over until the last days made a wrap and onto the promise land.”

“So Why2 in your opinion the fact that we are very close to creating a semi democracy in Iraq will not effect the surrounding Dictatorships? (The primary reason they are so damn dangerous is that they are dictatorships).

Good typical thought pattern that has seen the sun never rise on jolly old pod humperland.

But ...lets look at the FACTS.

1. Saudi Arabia is opening voting to women???WHAAAAA?

2. Kuwait is allowing more open voting.

3. Today Iran even announced putting women in the council? How could this be. In Male Dominated Muslim societies they are starting to see the value of allowing ALL CITIZENS to participate.?

So your very tight view of life is damaging your logic. The truth is that Iraq will become a beacon of freedom to other islamic nations....Kinda the way Reagan and Thatcher used Freedom to totally destroy the Soviet Union.”

“XL. Society is changing. The revolution in communications and globalization is changing the ballgame, not just for the US and it's lost jobs, but for everyone.

That is a bigger and wider change than the invasion of Iraq will ever be.

Nothing stays the same. Who knows where Iran would be now had it not has us forced lined up on its borders for the past seven years.

Saudi Arabia is facing a host of demographic challenges that are taking place whether the US invaded Iraq or not.

Kuwait - always been a more liberal regime. Again, we would likely have got there without the dumbass invasion.

You guys seem to look at the middle east as some sort of unchanging monolith. It's changing at a far more rapid pace than the US.

As an example, look how things have changed in China in the last decade. The Middle East wouldn't have sat still even if the US hadn't invaded.”

“There's a difference between y2 and t*ltypoo? The only difference I see is y2 doesn't seem to think he has a right to kill anyone's children that disagree's with him.”

“Dubai and Jordan are progressive Middle Eastern countries.”

“Again, we would likely have got there without the dumbass invasion. - Y2

Yeah, without the invasion, they'd have all cast out their overlords, and the terrorists would've traded their bombs for flowers, and the jews and muslims would be hugging each other in the streets.”

“Yeah, I mean Iranians have never 'cast out their overlords' before have they?

Any anyway. Where has anyone 'Cast out their overlords' since 9/11 you talking about Iraq?

What you smoking there boy?
last edited: 8/17/09 11:39:30 AM”

“LOL...Y2 did you like even ever HEAR of a Political Science Course in school?”

“Y2 talks about all the changing technology in media and communications, but he doesn't understand that it's a double-edged sword, mostly favoring those in power.”

“ohhh, I get it. You're trying to make the idea look ridiculous. God Mutt - you're really not good at this are you.

Quick now, go find that picture and accuse me of having a meltdown. That'll help limit the damage on this one.”

““LOL...Y2 did you like even ever HEAR of a Political Science Course in school?”
theXL400
11:46:37 AM
8/17/09

Yes XL. Taken and passed lots of them.

Can't you relate this to something you watched on the history channel about WW2?
last edited: 8/17/09 11:38:06 AM”

“Yes XL. Taken and passed lots of them.

No doubt taught by the most liberal of liberal professors, with a heavy emphasis on how Western civilization has been the cause of all the world's miseries.”

““LOL...Y2 did you like even ever HEAR of a Political Science Course in school?”
theXL400
11:46:37 AM
8/17/09

Spoken by a man who misuses basic political terms like 'socialism'.”

““Yes XL. Taken and passed lots of them.

No doubt taught by the most liberal of liberal professors, with a heavy emphasis on how Western civilization has been the cause of all the world's miseries.”
Mutt
11:52:39 AM
8/17/09

Will you never get past this Mutt.

If you don't agree with Mutt's naive world view then you're silly liberal pacifist (see where I mentioned this above and you said I have this caricature view of you, but then you post this).

It's time for these nations to stop blaming America for all that ills them - it's an easy get out.

Doesn't mean the BS you post is right though does it.
last edited: 8/17/09 11:44:23 AM”

“Y2 you realize that Revolution does not occur due to oppression but rather due to squelched desires.

Iraq has offered (much like Solidarity did in Poland) a chance at FREEDOM.

And yes the rest of the freaking world does blame the US for every ill. Kinda like the pathetic Leeches of society blame the successful....just makes it easier not to give to relief fund during disasters.”

“Actually XL - historically, economic factors have typically been the main underlying common cause in revolutions.
last edited: 8/17/09 11:55:45 AM”

“If you don't agree with Mutt's naive world view then you're silly liberal pacifist - Y2

Eh, I think you're silly because you think emotionally. Instead of intelligently and rationally arguing something along these lines: "I don't think the Iraq war was worth it overall because [insert logical, valid reasons here]", you're emotionally convinced it was an utter failure, the worst mistake in the history of the US, an unqualified boondoggle. You can't back any of it up when called out on it because it's all emotional nonsense.”

“Jesus Mutt - you really are a tool. What emotional reasons are you talking about? I don't think all wars are bad.

"I don't think the Iraq war was worth it overall because it failed to advance American interests strategically."

It has left America in a weaker position in the world than we would be at in August 2009 than had the invasion never taken place.

I've already said that about a dozen times here and about a thousand times since the invasion. I really can't make it any #&%!$ing clearer and yet you can't comprehend that because you seem to think you're the only 'strategic' thinker.

You seem to think all liberals work off an emotional base so I must be arguing about that as I couldn't possibly suggest that you have got a basic understanding of the facts or the strategy wrong because you have your head stuck up GI Joe's ass.

Mutt = logic
Disagree with Mutt = emotional liberal.
last edited: 8/17/09 12:06:35 PM”

“it failed to advance American interests strategically.

I'll ask again - why?”

“Because two of the central aims of the war were to demonstrate the extent of American military power to enforce change and that change can be sustained through the power of democracy.

When you get bogged down in a war with extremists for the best part of a decade you are showing the limits of American power, not the extent of it.”

“And I'm not sure exactly what 'calling out' you think you've done.
All you've done is pulled a stove stomper and called me a 'sillie libbie'.

And I think you were going to find a list of base expansions with those liberals getting 'in a lather and gnashing their teeth' about. You were weren't you?
last edited: 8/17/09 12:34:03 PM”

“called you out to the school yard did he?........break yo' self fool!”

“Better watch out Mutt. y2 will pull a y2 and tell you to "suck treebeard's dick". He's liberal that way.
last edited: 8/17/09 1:11:27 PM”

“Yet another violent Union thug was arrested at the 'town meeting' of a NC Democrap.

Dims are so stupid.”

“Uh-oh, President Barry has done something a republican would do. What do we do? I know!!

”

“You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, then that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."*

* Adrian Rogers, 1931*”

“
Oink. Oink. Oink.

”

“I dub Tilty ...Squealer...(it kills libbies when you remind them how much they are complying with Animal Farm) (LOL)”

“Your new bible XL?”

“Squealer...(it kills libbies when you remind them how much they are complying with Animal Farm) (LOL)”
theXL400
5:20:07 AM
8/18/09

I thought the reference was more Deliverance than Orwellian.

XL would be the 'squealer' calling out for more as he takes it from corporate America.”

“"takes it from corporate America" ?

Y2...gotta ask the "definition of that. I work for a small company. What exactly is Corporate America doing?

I do know that Small Business is responsible for about 70% of the employment in this nation. I do know that Obama Care will destroy small business. And I know that most of the LARGE Corporations (which I assume you mean as "evil" Corporate America) can pretty much buy off this adminstration to stay alive......SO it would appear that you sir being a pommy little Twit. May I reinterate

"You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts."”

“Well XL - you see what's happening when big healthcare is threatened, we're seeing it now.

The political process has been bought by America's biggest companies. Energy, Healthcare, finance, communications.

And you're there actively opposing anything that seeks to redress some of the power imbalance.

Squeal louder little piggy, squeal louder. Big healthcare profits are at risk.”

“"You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts."”
theXL400
6:58:56 AM
8/18/09

So you're French now huh. Doesn't surprise me.”

“ROTFLMAO..BIG EEEEEVIL Health Care?

Yeah you mean the Health Care system that um we find Canoodians and Pommy little Brits coming over to access when they need "real medical Care"?

or are you talking about the EVIL system that has turned out more Nobel Prize winners?

Maybe you are talking about the EEVIL system that you seem to have no problem supporting by hanging out in this country?”

“Because two of the central aims of the war were to demonstrate the extent of American military power to enforce change and that change can be sustained through the power of democracy. - Y2

The extent of American military power was shown in spades! The massive success of the initial invasion showed everyone on America's sh*t list they could be next. "Shock and Awe" certainly was accomplished. Bush's crazy, go-it-alone cowboy persona also rather masterfully played into their fear. The world saw that America could at the very least effect regime change through force, and there would obviously be little most countries could do to stop it.

Contrary to your assertion, this boosted American strategic interests, and "tribute" certainly poured in after Saddam was toppled, in terms of intelligence, cooperation, and internal crackdowns on terrorists.

You are correct that the resulting insurgency weakened our position and allowed time for other powers around the globe to flex (Russia's war in Georgia, for example). However, that is somewhat ameliorated by the fact that the insurgency did serve as a focus point for AQ jihadists, and there is no doubt whatsoever that we killed them by the bushel, forcing them into shame and behavior that ultimately alienated the Muslim Street. This, even though part of a mixed bag, has boosted American strategic interests, in that our goal of weakening and discrediting AQ was realized.

So yeah, our military is stretched, but you better believe that every tinpot dictator out there has been made aware that an aircraft carrier group or two, as well as 2 or 3 Marine Expeditionary Units could violently effect regime change - even with current deployments- if America so chooses. American policies are volatile and unpredictable, and other nations never really know what a change in leadership will bring. Even if it's obvious that America doesn't have the resources to properly rebuild and democratize, the certainty in America's latent destructive capability cannot be overstated as an overarching strategic constraint on nations around the world. There are no other countries capable of projecting a similarly capable force. Even with our military overstretched and a pushover in the Whitehouse, the iraq war has NOT damaged the fundamental calculus holding together America's global hegemony. It simply was not the decisive disaster you claim it to be. It has, unfortunately, resulted in us having to put up with Russia flexing its muscle, but again, that does not upset the balance right at this point. The fundamentals of our global posture has simply not been diminished.”

“Mutt...ahem that sir...was KICK ASS!”

“If there�s any room remaining on your Summer Reading List�. Ricochet: Confessions of a Gun Lobbyist by Richard Feldman.

There are some Great excerpts behind that link.”

“Ah, the ole bomb 'em into submission tactic. Mutt, you shoulda been born Spanish just prior to the Inquisition.”

“Mutt - you accuse me of painting a cartoonish view of you about the single dimension of your views, but then you come back with this.

You've thought about it only in terms of military power and what can be achieved in terms of military power.

The real problem that's exists now is the fact that America is not run by the Generals. It's a democracy, run by civilians.

As such what has been spent needs not to be looked at in terms of military costs, but in political costs.

You're unlikely to find the necessary political support for America to undertake any new military action for years, unless there is a 'Clear and Present Danger'.

And every 'tinpot dictator' already knew America could knock them down when they felt like it, but it was always a matter of at what cost.

The whole success or failure of this policy relied on the 'cost' factor. It's one thing to knock down a regime in a matter of months, with little cost of lives, it's another to be dragged into a war of attrition with extremists that will last a decade or more.

In military terms Russia is not a threat, China is.

Again we go back to a one-dimensional view, when you outline Russia as a threat.

The strategic threats to America are minimal in terms of military power.

The strategic threats to America are the economic growth of China and the lack of key resources.

You're right to highlight the need for a strong military, but that is there to support broader strategic interests.

America's future will be decided not on whether we build the F22 or whatever weapons system, it will be decided on whether it is able to regain its economic muscle, and whether it can find alternative sources of energy.

Ask yourself this. How did America become a superpower during the 19th and early 20th centuries. There were no big wars to cement it's supremacy. It's armies were for a long time smaller than their European equivalents, it's navy while growing wasn't as large as the British navy until well into the 20th century. And yet when challenged it was able to respond almost instantly and with devastating effect.

The military is there to secure America's other interests. It's vital to secure your interests, but military power is not a goal in and of itself.
last edited: 8/18/09 7:39:31 AM”

“And now


NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!
last edited: 8/18/09 7:38:07 AM”

“I dub Tilty ...Squealer - XL

Did you read where the libbies had to take down their Squealer email line, flag@wh?
*snicker*”

“LOL...Okay so technically there are no "Death panels" in the Obamacare Bill...so what does that mean?

Well lets start with defining a pattern of behavior.

Under the Democrats there was this book issued in the Veterans Affairs (VA) hospitals...."Your Life, Your Choices."
Orignally produced in 1977 written by Dr. Robert Pearlman.

During the Bush admin it was removed from the VA...

ITS BAAAAACK!
So what is so dangerous about this book?

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way aimed at steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political "push poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios and asks users to then decide whether their own life would be "not worth living."

The circumstances listed include ones common among the elderly and disabled: living in a nursing home, being in a wheelchair and not being able to "shake the blues." There is a section which provocatively asks, "Have you ever heard anyone say, 'If I'm a vegetable, pull the plug'?" There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as "I can no longer contribute to my family's well being," "I am a severe financial burden on my family" and that the vet's situation "causes severe emotional burden for my family."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

One can only imagine a soldier surviving the war in Iraq and returning without all of his limbs only to encounter a veteran's health-care system that seems intent on his surrender.

I was not surprised to learn that the VA panel of experts that sought to update "Your Life, Your Choices" between 2007-2008 did not include any representatives of faith groups or disability rights advocates. And as you might guess, only one organization was listed in the new version as a resource on advance directives: the Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as "Compassion and Choices").

AND Who is Dr Pearlman?

Dr. Robert Pearlman, chief of ethics evaluation for the center, a man who in 1996 advocated for physician-assisted suicide in Vacco v. Quill before the U.S. Supreme Court and is known for his support of health-care rationing.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204683204574358590107981718.html”