sleeping pads

“btw stovie... i saw spamalot in vegas a few years ago... lmao!”

“Santa baby, slip a hammock under the tree, for me
I've been an awful good girl
Santa baby, and hurry down the chimney tonight

Santa baby, a internal pack too, light blue
I'll wait up for you dear
Santa baby, and hurry down the chimney tonight

Think of all the fun I've missed
Think of all the fellas that I haven't kissed
Next year I could be oh so good
If you'd check off my Christmas list
Boo doo bee doo

Santa honey, I wanna titanium pot and really that's
Not a lot
I've been an angel all year
Santa baby, and hurry down the chimney tonight”

“refrige--and I've been a VERY good girl this year!

Thanks Yogi, very kind of you to say. Hope all is well on that front.

Div that is the coolest!
last edited: 9/16/09 5:14:30 PM”

“I have both the BA and the Insul Mat...they are incredibly comfy but man I get cold. I finally started taking this 1/8"" pad with me to use as a thermal break...WORKS great.”

“i have the downmat (short) and it's the bomb for winter camping. that close cell foam is a huge improvement over any air mattress.

there are really three forms of thermal heat loss: conduction, convection and radiation.

there isn't a lot of convection between you and the ground. convection is when heat moves from one location to another like the flow of water or the blowing of hot air. the hot air actually moves. convection is VERY efficient heat transfer mechanism.

conduction is when two objects touch and heat transfers from one media to another. there is no movement of the media (water, air, etc). it's a fairly effective transfer mechanism.

radiation is when heat energy in the form of light energy. it's the least effective mechanism of heat transfer.

the sun, for example, is a giant nuclear fusion convection engine however the heat it produces is transferred to earth via radiation (there is a vacuum between the sun and the earth so conduction can't take place).

in an mattress you have little convection and a little radiation. what you mainly suffer from is a lot of conduction. air is a terrible insulator, not much better than sleeping in direct contact with the ground.

i still don't buy the whole neo-air "reflected body heat" business because even though one might be able to recover some of the radiant energy one would lose to radiation, your conductive losses would not be offset in the slightest and conduction is a huge reason you get cold sleeping on the ground... far more than radiation.

the numbers from cascade designs back me up on this. the neo air has an r value of 2.5, which is very low and on par with most air mattresses. r-value would be a measure of how much insulation the pad would give you, mostly from conduction.

i think, however, we all agreed this isn't a winter camping mattress. i am just point out some thoughts on the topic. some day i'll try one and see what i think. i can't knock a piece of gear i have never used and so many people i trust seem to love.”

“like yogi's saying - it's prolly not great for winter use, but given the packed weight and size - i'd say it's awesome for summer time!

I covet the downmat for winter camping.... i might have to treat myself to one this year.”

“Yay, some are trying to make it out to be something it isn't. I will use my NeoAir for summer, nicer weather trips given the low R-value.”

“I have a question that will probably be construed as a stupid one. Why is the trapped air in an air mattress a poor insulator when the air trapped by lofted down is a great insulator? I may be wrong but I was always under the impression that down worked because it trapped small pockets of air.”

“Here's a somewhat of an answer for you:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071222111403AAvLJpk”

“Thanks,

I guess I had the answer to the question in the SMALL pockets of air comment.”

“You're smarter than you know!”

“It's kinda the same thing that makes a very clear night cooler than a cloudy night.”

“Has anyone found a backpacking sleeping pad more comfortable than an InsulMat blow up pad?”

“nope”

“The Exped Downmat 9 might be your best bet. It is 3.5" thick and has a R-Value of 8.”

“Big Agnes Insulated Air Core. Probably the same as the InsulMat.”

“Yep, that's almost the same.

I wish they made the 3/4 size with insulation.”

“I've used both the InsulMat and the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core. I now use the ThermaRest NeoAir, and it is by far the most comfortable blow up pad I've ever used. Also, the lightest and the warmest. The only down side is the very high price, and that there are almost none to be had out there, so you may have to wait til next spring to get one.”

“REI had the Neo in stock as of last week but available thru on-line orders only.”

“I've been trying different combinations and the last one seemed the best: Thermarest Z-rest on top of a Big Agnes blow up pad.”

“Non, I got hold of a 1/8th" thick solid core pad that weighs NADA works great for a thermal break.

I have the full length big agnes and the 3/4 insulmat. Truthfully BOTH work great.”

“I tried a Z underneath a BA a few years ago when the temps got down around -1 or 0 F. Felt the cold from below, I should have tried it the other way around like nonconformist.”

“I have used 5/8" Twill Tape Ribbon from the sewing area of Wal-Mart to make a loop to hold two pads on top of each other. Use one loop for each end. The flat twill tape does not abate the pads like a string would.”

“so, any new thoughts on the NeoAir? Im thinking about springing for one. The packed size and weight are huge to me.

Does anyone know how well this will work in a thermarest camp chair setup? My other thought was a thermarest prolite, but hell theyre almost as much.

Ive heard good things about the Big Agnus but never used one. Will those work in the camp chairs? I love my camp chair :)

For reference, ive been using an older Thermarest prolite 3/4 length pad that recently bit the dust.”

“For the money, I would not want to use my NeoAir in a chair.

My small NeoAir kept me plenty warm on a early Oct. trip in the southern Sierra, temps on a couple nights were in the single digits, however, the ground was not frozen yet.”

“i hear ya there. thats how i popped my prolite. It has three holes in it. Set up after dark and found out in morning i was sitting on briars.

thinking about patching it. At the weight and size of a small Neo, I could probably justify bringing both. Use the patched prolite for the chair and both for sleeping.”

“who has the best price on the neo right now?”

“I have the neoair and like it. I had it out last weekend and the temps got down in the low 30s. I had no problems with it. I do however use a 3/4 ridgerest under it. I use the ridgerest around the campfire.”

“Basegear.com

20 percent off and free shipping if you sign up to receive their emails. You can cancel that at any time. that puts a small at 96 + tax or a medium at 112 + tax. Bout the best Ive found.”

“Correction, no tax and the 20% is good for the stuff sack too.”

“Get a after market stuff sack and save a little more. I snagged a Granite Gear stuff sack at the small local bp store where I got my NeoAir.”

“If you-re interested in the NeoAir, you have to be interested in losing ounces from your pack. Lose the stuff sack and go with a rubber band to keep it together. if you-re worried about puncture in the pack, just pack it amongst your clothes, or better yet, in the stuff sack with your sleeping bag!”

“No room in my sleeping bag stuff sack, some advocate no stuff sacks. To each his own. My pad goes in an outside net pocket, so it needs the stuff sack for protection.”

“I got the OK from the wifey to upgrade after 15 years with the same thermarests!

Please weigh in! What's everyone like these days? NeoAir? Big Agnes? I haven't researched the specs yet but want to head off in the right direction. Anything else I should consider besides these two mattresses? I want light and comfi!”

“My NeoAir fits that bill. You can normally get it at leat 20% off with a little patience.”

“I need a new one too, mine has a slow leak somehwere and I've tried to find it and cant!”

“Spirit have you put it in a bathtub? (you probably already know that putting each section under water with a little extra air pressure will usually locate the leak).”

“won't that get water into it if it's a clossed cell foam type?”

“I got one bag night with my new BA. It is great!”

“SC - air it up real tight - the air escaping will prevent water entering, just don't let it empty of air and you'll be fine.”

“I will always love my classic therma rest. perfect thickness and durability. Has held up over fifteen years.

I bought the Therma Rest Pro-Lite 4 and hate it. Too thin and cold.

I have the BA Insulated Core Pad that I really like now. Leave it slightly underinflated for a really good nights sleep.”

“I have one too Sandyann, and I love it! Very comfy and warm.

I have one of those 3/4 length thermarests, but I can't stand using it. My feet always hang off the end and get cold.”

“So, I dug around a litte bit on REI. These pads seem like the clear contenders for weight, durrability and comfort:

Exped Synmat UL7
BA Insulated aircore

Anyone use these? Based on reviews at REI, I ruled out the NeoAir. Durability, noise and the fact that Therma doesn't include a patch kit or stuff sack seems sorta chintzy. I'd maybe consider the Therma Trekker as it has a fabric top, but has a low insul value (R2) vs. R3/4 on the other two pads.

More opinions?

Thanks, all.”

“The Exped mats are top of the line. A friend of mine has one of the 'down-mats' from them and it's wonderful. Heavier than most, but meant for full-on winter use.”

“I guesss no one is selling mine any more..

Insulmat max thermo. It's an insulated air core that is lighter than the exped, not as warm either, but still compacts down to about the size of a 12 ounce can.

http://m.sierratradingpost.com/mobile/insul-mat-max-thermo-sleeping-pad-long~p~89151/?r=www


Never had a leak in either of mine and they are 6 or 7 years old.”

“Was using a BA insulated air core with a thin, closed cell foam pad on top for insulation. Switched to the Neoair last summer and saved some weight. It works fine. I only use my air mattresses in the tent to protect it from punctures or embers. I use my foam pad with the chair kit.”

“I hear ya Phil. The lighter weight the stuff gets, the more fragile. I thnk I will miss the days of getting into camp, fishing out the thermrest and throwing it down wherever to relax. I guess I'll just have to be responsible and put a tarp down first...”