I'd join this trip, but................. ..........

“i like to smoke and drink abuse substances”

“I've been on a few trips free of substance but never a substance-free trip. Oh well, at least he's up front about the clubs requirements.”

“I have long held that TT trips in general should be substance-free... All that drinking and smoking weed intrudes on the purity of the outdoor experience. I applaud the d00d that runs these hikes for standing up to the conventional idea of what a "good time" in the woods is and trying to draw out what is right and pure about outdoor adventuring. The message this icon of a trip leader presents us is clear: TTers, have your drunken orgies in the woods but do so knowing there is NOW a higher standard.”

“Bawhawhawhaw!”

“O
M
G”

“
And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W's
where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after
committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly
looking people on the bench there. Mother rapers. Father stabbers. Father
rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me! And
they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the
bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest
father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean 'n' ugly
'n' nasty 'n' horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me
and said, "Kid, whad'ya get?" I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay
$50 and pick up the garbage." He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?"
And I said, "Littering." And they all moved away from me on the bench
there, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I
said, "And creating a nuisance."



 Alice's Restaurant (1967)
 Arlo Guthrie

”

“dont say nothin in the trip description about father rapers. i take it they can go but cigarette smokers cant”

“Yep.   'Twould appear so ----”

“Hike your own hike...

LandNavMan only posts trip invitations and trail reports.

The Bushrats have a philosophy and ethic. If it matches ours or we want to experience their way of doing things we are welcome to join them.

Why mess with someone who is so committed to what we all love?”

“because it amuses me to do so.”

“I like a sip of wine in the evening. I guess I am prohibited to go on this trip if I did that openly. But how would they know if I took a sip of wine in my tent? Do they require breathalyser blows?”

“I have to agree with prosecutor. Yes there have been trips where I got inebriated but those a few and far between.

I look forward to a morning cup of joe with a snip of good bourbon. In the evening a cup of green tea spiced with sugar and bourbon is the perfect bedtime elixir.

Looks like I won't be going on any of their trips.”

“Is this the ex-law enforcement guy who also wants to see your packing list and get a signed waiver?

I don't have issue w/ stipulating no drugs or alcohol on trips. I just wouldn't join the trip. I bet there are some who will be more comfortable on such a trip though.”

“I can do without the drinkin if one wishes but iffin you don't like my snuffin you can kiss my arse!!!”

“My cardiologist says that a few ounces of red wine a night is GOOD for my heart.


As to LandNavMan, he has organized a Search and Rescue effort at no pay to look for a missing hiker, and has done some 11 extensive searches in conjunction with the Sheriff's Department.
http://forums.backpacker.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=613107219;t=9991108276

His commitment to service and the backpacking community is exemplary, and he should be praised for those efforts.”

“all hail landnavman! (seriously)”

“If you don't like the terms of the trip, why the need for social commentary? Probably the same people who won't let dogs on a trip.

Thanks crash for trying to save the internet.”

“whaddayoucare?

you dont hike”

“in all seriousness, i respect landnavman, and his trips sound like a blast, but im an adult (my voting card says so), and i can make my own decisions regarding perfectly legal activities”

“I love my 4 dogs yet I don't take my dogs out on backpacking trips! I actually hate dogs on my backpacking trips but I love my friends that have those dogs and therefore would never say anything to those people! I bet every person on this site would give their time for a search and rescue effort and so I don't see the need for special praise there!I don't tell Democrats that they can't come on my trips!!!!!!!!!!”

“The difference being, not every poster in this forum HAS given time in a government sponsored search and rescue. And not very many posters has ORGANIZED a search and rescue effort. Finally, I would bet only one poster has done ELEVEN search and rescue trips in the last three months (being LandNavMan).

So you see, LandNavMan DOES deserve special accolades.

I just wish my cardiologist and LandNavMan would agree on the issue of medical wine.”

“I am so freakin' confused..

Am i allowed to bring my flask of Crown, or will you all frwon upon me?

'32oz”

“Did anyone see his 20 day snow shoe trip to James Bay (Arctic Ocean) he has posted? It must get old pushing that wheelbarrow around to carry his big balls.”

“aw crap.....   not Second-hand Snuff!”

“this is frakin hilarious...i too had the same knee jerk reaction when i read that but had the decency not to start a thread about it ;)...just kidding crash, don't start a nasty thread about me too

but seriously, i haven't really seen the pot thing but i can't remember a trip where someone didn't bring alcohol and i can think of only one trip where someone actually got drunk and it was very uneventful...that's just my 2 cents...not being "allowed" to bring it wouldn't keep me from going on a trip”

“i can see not wanting drunkeness on a trip, but 99 percent of the time on tt trips, people can hold their liquor (lick 'er? ya gotta clean 'er first)”

“i do resent the trip page of tt being used as an "advertising dump" for a trip organized on the backpacker magazine forum.”

“Navman also frequents TT too. Not very much but he does chime in from time to time. Real nice guy.”

“Lizs has advertizes her TT trips on the magazine site in the past.

When the magazine site's moderator was editing my posts over there, this forum was an excellent place to put a post out of his edit power. He is very sensitive to even the mildest of disagreements, you know.”

“He is very sensitive to even the mildest of disagreements, you know.

No WAY! You're kidding! LOL! He's not biased either , is he? I swear sometimes he gets so worked up I think he's about to pull a vaginal muscle or something.”

“hehe i hope he reads this”

“Yeah but this is lizs and we all know she writes her own rules through the force of her will. Amazing!”

“Someday I wanna go on one of those drinking trips.”

“I've only seen 1 person use pot 1x in all of the TT trips I've been on and he was very discreet about it. Is pot really that common on TT trips and I'm just not aware of it? Curious.

I've seen whiskey on lots of trips, maybe even most trips. I've seen it get out of hand once. I've seen people get drunk but not out of hand a few times but these were on basecamp type trips away from bluffs.”

“I've never seen any dope smokers on a TT trip (I did smell some once) and I can only think of one time when someone got outta hand with alcohol and we have not seen em since!!
Amazing, all this talk about drugs and nothing about the fun.
See ya later.
Randall”

“there is no way to know for sure but in my experience it can't be that common an occurrence.”

“Typically, I see folks sipping their beverage of choice while sitting around a campfire talking about the days adventure along with prior adventures. Obviously, this guy can setup any type of trip he wants and the discussion has drifted towards general type trip experiences. Again, I can only recall the one time where a few folks got out of hand to the point of putting themselves in danger. Because of that experience I always put a disclaimer on my trips that sipping is ok, drunkfest is not. This guy may well have had a bad experience too.”

“my personal preference is to coordinate not dictate. "hike your own hike as long as it's my hike" doesn't work for me. i do respect this individuals right to select who he hikes with.

that said, in my mind this approach is one of exclusion rather than inclusion. it defines who CAN NOT participate rather than who can. the same can be said for private trips... private trips basically are trips where nobody can participate unless invited by the planner. so i sort of view this "substance free" trip as a private trip that has been posted publicly. hey... have at it.

one of the more enjoyable aspects of TT trips has been not always knowing who will show up and what they will do once they get there. like backpacking, for me TT trips are about the journey and not the destination. all the chatter leading up to the trip (and reading about the formation of other people's trips) is great fun to read and contributes greatly to this forum. i think some of the best stories around the campfires are of the odd people that have showed up and made their mark on the history of TT.

i do wish he would feel like participating in the forum rather than just dumping an ad on the trip page and then later posting a trip report from behind the backpacker magazine web site. he would have a lot to offer the forum... substance free trips and all... but apparently while we are good enough to invite on the trips (so long as we promise to behave ourselves... naughty TTers that we are) we aren't good enough to hang out with on-line.”

“I have seen a fair amount of "weed" use on TT trips. and not just base camps away from bluffs. I would not describe it as discreet but neither was it advertised. Although for someone coming of age in the 60's it's rather hard to miss some of the signs. I assume I could have joined, but no one offered me a hit. (I'm not complaining there, just noting a fact that my boundaries were respected.) One individual in particular seemed to be the center of the activity, but others joined.”

“Smoking weed is illegal. So is drinking alcohol in some parks.”

“Good point there YogiSan.”

“Laying it out there and not leaving wiggle room probably avoids uncomfortable and potentially trip ruining situations from occurring on the trail. Missing out on hiking with some great folks may be an unfortunate but acceptable consequence of the rule.

I'll skip the weed but gladly share a nightcap with whomever on any TT trips I happen to go on.

When I signed up for this trip I never gave the no alcohol prohibition a second thought, it just isn't that important to me. If I can't sleep (very unlikely, lol) I have benydral in my kit.

It is a hike your own hike question as far as I'm concerned.
last edited: 10/14/08 9:24:17 AM”

“Mountain, meet Molehill.

I won't claim to speak for landnavman, but I'm sure there are safety and legal concerns behind his requests. In the day of endless lawsuits, I'm sure someone would eventually point to a trip organizer in the event of an accident or fatality.”

“I do not smoke dope but I have hiked with a few dopes...”

“Mountain, meet Molehill.

I won't claim to speak for landnavman, but I'm sure there are safety and legal concerns behind his requests. In the day of endless lawsuits, I'm sure someone would eventually point to a trip organizer in the event of an accident or fatality.”
Nonconformist
11:27:28 AM
10/14/08


I had a situation arise that really made me rethink being the organizer on trips. A guy unknown to all of us showed up. It was a strenuous off trail hike. He barely made it to camp. He decided to leave early. He got lost. We got a search going when his car was still at the TH about 30 hours after we'd last seen him. He wrote me a note thanking me for sounding the alarm. I kept the email just in case 8)

You never know who could show up on these and what their capabilities will be.”

“LandNaveMan increases his liability when he assumes control over a trip. With control, he becomes responsible for injuries due to his negligence in failing to anticipate dangers.

Any waivers signed do not necessarily absolve the trip leader from his liability. Some waivers are void against public policy.

Most TT trips are a simple invitation to join someone else's itinerary, without control over how you hike your own hike. No control, no liability.”

“precisely.”

“Good to know.


That reminds me of the waivers we signed on a rafting trip this summer. My wife was going nuts about them. Wanted to know what happens if we didn't sign. They actually said we were holding them harmless for their own negligence. My understanding is that you can't do that and it won't hold up in court so I didn't bat an eye at their waver. I barely got her to sign the damn thing so we could raft.”

“waivers?
I am sooo going to make everyone sign one on my next trip.


it will include, "I promise not to finish mapleleafs wine without her knowing it"



hear that scorch!”