Survey: Requirements for an improved st ove

“Hey,

First, let me say I'm new to thebackpacking.com

My name is Ethan Greer, and I am from the Engineering Design and Development class at Union-Endicott High School in Upstate New York. As part of this class, my partner Spencer Scott and I are developing a portable food cooker and warmer which will be easily transportable, reusable, and durable enough for camping and backpacking. The device will also be safe to use indoors and in a tent.
I am currently conducting a product requirements survey to help determine additional requirements of this device. I'm hoping to get feedback for backpackers such as those here.

Please feel free to contact me at any time with any questions you may have regarding this project, or suggestions for this product. My contact information can be found below.

--BEGIN SURVEY--

1. On a scale of 4 to 0, with 4 being the most satisfied, how satisfied would you say you are with the current range of products designed to allow one to heat and cook food while camping or backpacking?
4 3 2 1 0

2. Out of the following options, would you say the combustion used by traditional camp/backpack stoves, and the associated smoke, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide is…
____ Always a problem
____ Occasionally a problem, but more often a problem than not
____ No opinion, or neutral opinion
____ Usually not a problem
____ Never a problem

3. Out of the following options, how would well would you say current camp/backpack stoves serve their intended purpose?
____ Extremely poorly
____ Somewhat poorly
____ Neutral
____ Somewhat well
____ Extremely well

4. What's the most you would be willing to spend on a backpacking stove?
____ $10-20
____ $20-30
____ $30-40
____ $40-50
____ $50-60
____ $60-70
____ $70-80
____ $80-90
____ $100+


5. What is the maximum weight you would consider tolerable for a backpack stove?
_________________ ounces (without fuel)
_________________ ounces (with fuel)

6. While on an average camping or backpacking trip, how many times do you typically use your camp or backpack stove?
_______________ times

7. While on an average camping or backpacking trip, how many times do you expect to have to go to a store to purchase more supplies?
_______________ times

8. On a scale of 4 to 0, with 4 being the most valuable, how valuable would the ability to easily use a camp or backpack stove in the rain, wet conditions, indoors or in a tent, or in high winds be to you?
4 3 2 1 0

In the process of developing this product, I may be interested in further feedback from those knowledgeable in the field of camping and backpacking, such as you. If it would be alright for me to contact you in the future regarding this project, please let me know.

Thanks you again for your time. Please feel free to contact me at any time with any questions you may have about this project. My contact information is as follows:


Paper Mail, please send to:
Dr. Timothy Netwon
c/o: Union-Endicott High School
1200 East Main Street
Endicott, NY 13760

Phone: 607-757-2120
Fax: 607-757-2592

egreer@team2053.org”

“First, let me say I'm new to thebackpacking.com

LOL, so new that you got the site's name wrong

my answers:

1. 3
2. Usually not a problem
3. Somewhat well
4. $30-40
5. 10 oz with out
6. 5
7. 0
8. 4”

“Camping stoves and backpacking stoves can be very different in type, size and how they are used. My opinions on camping stoves are very different from my opinions on backpacking stoves. Having said that, I use an alcohol stove for backpacking and my answers are based on that.

4
usually not a problem
extremely well
$10-20
1 ounce
twice daily
0
4”

“1. 3
2. Usually not a problem
3. Somewhat well
4. 40 to 50
5. 10oz (sounds good)
6. 4 (maybe 5)
7. 0
8. 4”

“1. 3
2. usually not a problem
3. Somewhat well
4. Open depends on wt vs benefits
5. as little as possible
6. 2-3
7. 0
8. 4
last edited: 11/12/08 9:57:52 AM”

“did someone say stove?

http://www.steepandcheap.com/steepcheap/sac

'32oz”

“The device will also be safe to use indoors and in a tent.

Most backpacking tents come with a warning, explicitly saying not to do this. CO and flame issues put the user at too high a risk. Even a chemical-based flameless device might get hot enough to melt a hole in a backpacking tent. I suggest that you drop this requirement as unworkable.
last edited: 11/12/08 11:34:24 AM”

“Taking Bitpusher's thought a little further...

Leave no trace ( http://www.lnt.org/ )and common sense suggests you cook away from your sleeping area.

Cooking in a tent infuses your shelter with the smell of food and greatly increases the chance of an unwanted human/animal encounter.

In bear or wildcat country this could get a camper harmed or killed and habituate the animal to human food, lessen the animals fear of man and create a problem animal that will need to be relocated or most likely killed.

That requirement needs to be dropped.
last edited: 11/12/08 11:53:23 AM”

“First, let me say I'm new to thebackpacking.com
~ethan

LOL, so new that you got the site's name wrong
~thriftyhiker

Strike one.

I'm hoping to get feedback for backpackers such as those here.
~ethan


Strike two.”

“1) 3

2) Usually not a problem

3) Extremely well

4) $100+

5) 16oz, 32 oz

6) 4

7) 0

8) 4

5)”

““Camping stoves and backpacking stoves can be very different in type, size and how they are used. My opinions on camping stoves are very different from my opinions on backpacking stoves......

Good point. I also answered as if I were using a backpacking stove...”

“Is this thing methane powered? I think you have probably stumbled on to the right demographic. Loads of hot air around here...

That said, excellent points made by the critics :)”

“Questions: With the aforementioned Alcohol Stove...

1) How well does that work in cold weather camping?

B) How do you control the heat?

iii) How do you "turn it off" when you're finished?

4) How quickly does it run out of fuel (i.e. do you have to re-fuel in the middle of use)?


Thanks :)”

“Found this (does it match your experience?):
________________________________________________

Disadvantages

Reduced Output - about half the heat output per ounce compared to other liquid fuels (white gas, butane, etc) and not appropriate for groups, long treks (greater than a one to two weeks without refitting) or melting snow



Invisible Flame - refilling with fuel or handling the stove can be dangerous to those that depend solely on the sense of sight for evaluating dangers



Cold Sensitive - most setups depend on vaporization of fuel and may not work well in frozen environments



Lacks Brand Name - North Face wearing, Mountain House eating, Starbucks drinking, Honda Element driving "outdoors people" will refer to you as "ghetto" and/or "trailer park"



Durability - if you step on your stove made from pop cans, you might have to say goodbye to hot meals for the rest of your trip



DIY (Do It Yourself) - Many of the stove designs out there require you to fabricate your own setup which can prove to be challenging or inconvenient for many”

“Questions: With the aforementioned Alcohol Stove...

1) How well does that work in cold weather camping?

B) How do you control the heat?

iii) How do you "turn it off" when you're finished?

4) How quickly does it run out of fuel (i.e. do you have to re-fuel in the middle of use)?


Thanks :)”
ickyma

Not sure, but I think these questions were directed to me.

1. I have used my alcohol stove down to 15 degrees outside without any problem. I had to warm up the fuel somewhat by keeping it against my body, but I have had to do that with canister fuel as well.

2. You can't control the heat. I do freezer bag cooking so it's basically just boil water and pour. Although I have read that you can use some type of metal cover over part of the top that works to reduce the heat down to a simmer.

3. You can't turn it off. You have to let it burn out. There usually isn't much left to burn out though.

4. No, I don't have to refuel in the middle of use. I know how much I need to use based on what I am cooking.
last edited: 11/12/08 12:48:58 PM”

“Found this (does it match your experience?):
________________________________________________

Disadvantages

Reduced Output - about half the heat output per ounce compared to other liquid fuels (white gas, butane, etc) and not appropriate for groups, long treks (greater than a one to two weeks without refitting) or melting snow



Invisible Flame - refilling with fuel or handling the stove can be dangerous to those that depend solely on the sense of sight for evaluating dangers



Cold Sensitive - most setups depend on vaporization of fuel and may not work well in frozen environments



Lacks Brand Name - North Face wearing, Mountain House eating, Starbucks drinking, Honda Element driving "outdoors people" will refer to you as "ghetto" and/or "trailer park"



Durability - if you step on your stove made from pop cans, you might have to say goodbye to hot meals for the rest of your trip



DIY (Do It Yourself) - Many of the stove designs out there require you to fabricate your own setup which can prove to be challenging or inconvenient for many”
ickyma


Output - not sure about the output. It boils and that's all that matters to me. No, it is not good for groups. Depending on availability of fuel along the long trek, alcohol may or may not be a good idea. This would be true of any type of fuel.

Invisible Flame - this is correct. You cannot see the flame well under certain circumstances.

Cold Sensitive - I haven't had any problems.

Lacks Brand Name - who cares? not me

Durability - no problems here. My meals are plenty hot.

DIY - I didn't make my own, but the one I bought was home made. I use the WhiteBox stove.”

“Thanks!”

“You can "turn off" an alcohol stove, depending on which one you use. Just snuff the flame. I do it all the time with my trangia. then you just screw on the lid and use the left over fuel the next time. But as mentioned, usually, you know how much fuel is needed to do the job (boil a 1/2 liter of water, etc.). There's also a simmer ring that blocks the jets. These are the main reasons I like the trangia over a soda can stove. Also the durability. Weight is the sacrifice for these features.”