Why Obama won

“Barack Obama morphs into Bill Clinton. How sad

By Yael T. Abouhalkah, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist

Barack Obama was supposed to bring change to the White House. Instead, he's bringing back Bill Clinton's leftovers.

With his first appointments and rumored selections for top spots in his administration, Obama is dipping into the same talent pool that Clinton used during his two terms in the 1990s. So much for "yes, we can" change the culture at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Here are the picks and potential picks so far (even leaving out the biggest potential tie to Bill Clinton -- wife Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State):

-- Rahm Emanuel, former Clinton aide, as White House chief of staff.

-- Eric Holder, deputy attorney general under Clinton, as attorney general.

-- Jacob Lew, Clinton's budget director, as director of the National Economic Council.

-- Peter Orszag, former economic adviser to Clinton, as White House budget director.

-- Rand Beers, assistant secretary of state for international narcotics and law enforcement under Clinton, as Homeland Security secretary or national security official.

-- John Hamre, second-ranking civilian in the Defense Department under Clinton, as Defense Secretary.

-- Raymond Kelly, senior Treasury Department official under Clinton, as Homeland Security secretary.

-- Dan Reicher, environmental advocate in the Clinton administration, as energy secretary.”

“It looks like it would not have been any different if Hillary had won.”

“- I'm not purpoting to explain why Obama won,
last edited: 11/19/08 5:16:32 PM”
Hiker1984
5:24:23 PM
11/19/08

That's fine. My post, which you rebutted, was in response to the title and the initial post of the thread which did purport to explain "why obama won."”

“Your logic doesn't work ped. How much McCain voters knew or didn't know about the issues made no difference to Obama getting elected. If some of them looked into the issues closer and decided that McCain wasn't their man it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Now it would have been possible for the outcome to change if some Obama voters looked closer at the issues and decided Obama wasn't their man.

That was teh point of the thread title”

“How much McCain voters knew or didn't know about the issues made no difference to Obama getting elected

this is true. but, it's pretty obvious that the underlying implication is that democrats are dumber than republicans”

““Wow. � It turns out that Hannity can't tell the truth to save his life....

Tllt
5:20:28 PM
11/19/08

damn somehow the fuego box got checked again
uuuuhhh what I said was sarcasm (maybe I sould've given you more of a hint) and dude you really need to chill. you all do. why such hatred for the other party? niether of them are perfect and they have both done their part of F***ing up this country to the point it's at now, and I'm sure that when Obama's done with his part of the screwing up a new president will be elected to do the same thing until someone with some sort of morals is somehow elected.”

“They voted for the dip in 2004 even though they knew there were no WMD. � Did they wise up that much in four years? � I kinda doubt it.

For most of them it was more like changing the channel on their TVs.

”

“he won fair and square... just like Bush did in 2004 and like Gore did in 2000.”

“HA!”

“I have no problem with saying Obama won. I was just commenting that the thread title was accurate for the point the OP was making.”

“"Because stoopid people voted.”

“The media handed it to Obama””

“Did anyone really doubt that the media and Barack's charismatic cult of personality were the main factors behind Barack's success?”

“Why do Obamaites not light candles in his temple?


He wants to keep his followers in the dark.”

“Obama has invented time travel. We're going back to the Age of Clinton. buddy can you spare some change?”

“Ah, the population on denial island continues to grow.

I thought it was those elites voting for Obama that enabled him to win? Wish you guys would get your whining stories straight.

Maybe, just maybe, the abject failure of conservative policies may have had something to do with it.

No no, can't be that - conservatives don't fail at anything!

Must be the fault of those stupid liberals.”

“Alcohol and Trail Talk will rot your brain.

Trolls who plop off-topic troll posts (from 2004 no less) into the middle of a thread are idiots.



Let's see if we can educate a Kool-Aid drinker who apparently only gets its "facts" from sources that reaffirm its thoughts.

Troll: "I am not a racist." (11/20/2008)

Fact: "I grew up in a house full of bigotry and I overcame it, mostly. A stray thought like that still crosses my mind once in a while..." (Troll, 7/24/2003)

Using Kool-Aid drinking trolls' logic, Troll "lied" and a "fact" exposed the lie. Context didn't even matter.

Try it---it's easy!”

“I thought it was those elites voting for Obama that enabled him to win? - Y2

Not them voting, but rather their large-scale manipulation.
last edited: 11/20/08 6:24:08 AM”

“LMAO - like having Mitt Romney and Rudi Guilliani talking about East Coast elites and the cosmopolitan.

Like the use of Joe the Plumber.

Like running an entire campaign playing on fear and bigotry.

Seriously Mutt - you using some of the meth they like around you while the election was on?????

You lost because conservatives have #&%!$ed up America.
last edited: 11/20/08 6:31:26 AM”

“conservative ideas have lost? yet gay marriage is outlawed in California. maybe it wasn't conservative ideas that have lost but just people don't have stomach for long wars and crooked wallstreet and banking institutions that congress failed to do anything about the last 2 years. people were looking to lash out and the media pointed at Bush.”

“you using some of the meth they like around you while the election was on - Y2

Lol wut? Calm down, Y2, you're



again.”

“Mutt is wrapped waaaay too tight to be a drug user.”

“Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.”

“Oh Mutt, you're a naive little lad aren't you - you like posting that picture every time you're confronted with reality.

I guess if it helps you avoid dealing with reality then go for it. I mean it must be easier than accepting abject failure.

The longer you guys wander around with your head up your ass the better in my book.”

“Just keep stroking your 'gun' and muttering 'stupid liberals' to yourself.”

“we're good. All we need to do is keep the flame of conservatism burning. obama's presidency is going to be like pouring fuel on it.”

“Most people find politics boring. So they don't really look into things and just go with the pop culture man of choice. They voted for a persona, a brand, a cult of personality. The population is ignorant and it's not by accident, it's all part of the plan. Social engineering. Not black helicopters, more like a cute news anchor in a miny skirt.

I wish him well but fear what's in store for this country. Hopefully, the mind numbed robots will wake up before it's too late. You combine fear and hunger and all the rules change.

People are not stupid, they are deceived.
That's why Obama won”

“Oh I have no doubt a few loons will keep the flame alive in the dark corners of the internet, ready to screw things up again should they get the chance.”

“it worked for the liberals”

“It's funny. This country is utterly predicatble when it comes to the voting populous.

Whitehouse blowjob and lying about it=villification, 180 turn, vote for the moron.

Starting a B.S. war and driving the country into the ground=180 in the other direction.

I think if Obama does anything grievous, the swing voters will go 180 and support the next chump running for office. But my guess is you guys are going to have to bear it for eight years and maybe longer after that if the majority are happy with the direction. You can grumble all you want, but it's not going to change a dang thing, kinda like how we all pissed and moaned about George and his blatently poor leadership. Now all you can do is sit there and stew. Enjoy!”

“Now all you can do is sit there and stew

Pure projection. You guys did sit there and stew and moan and cry all through Bush's term, so you think everyone must be as weak and insecure as you.”

“so no bipartisanship then? dang, buddy can you spare some change?”

“�Most people find politics boring. So they don't really look into things and just go with the pop culture man of choice. They voted for a persona, a brand, a cult of personality. The population is ignorant and it's not by accident, it's all part of the plan. Social engineering. Not black helicopters, more like a cute news anchor in a miny skirt.

Yep, that is why these people should leave this country. Start up a new Jonestown someplace.

I disagree Strat...people are stupid!”

“Yes, people are stupid. Trailtalk fuego threads illustrate this point perfectly.

Mutt, what enormous change are going to make? The change has happened. The vast majority of America that cares enough to vote has rejected your conservative ideals. You can't do jack about it. So anything you say about Obama, what he's GOING to do and all of the defensive posturing you exhibit on a repeated basis mean absolutely zippo. Stew!”

“ummm, then why did California outlaw gay marriage. I think you are wrong about what the american people were voting about. I think most of them thought it was a special episode of "American Idol"”

“The vast majority of America that cares enough to vote has rejected your conservative ideals.

??????????????????????

No wonder there's only crickets responding to the other thread.”

“Pure projection. You guys did sit there and stew and moan and cry all through Bush's term, so you think everyone must be as weak and insecure as you.�
Mutt


+1”

“California voted FOR Prop 8 for a multitude of reasons, including that they, like Obama, outspent the oposition about 4 to 1; we have a large Latino population that while liberal on many issues, still remain hardcore on conservative Christian values.

It's funny you guys are now having to eat the same crow that the Dems have been digesting for the past 8 years. Sucks to be the losers, doesn't it.”

““Your logic doesn't work ped. How much McCain voters knew or didn't know about the issues made no difference to Obama getting elected.”
hyway
7:35:12 PM
11/19/08

No hyway. This is basic research methodolgy you can't make conclusions about effects without a comparison group. You can't conclude Obama won because Obama's voters were ignorant, unless you can show that that Obama's voters are any more ignorant than people who voted for McCain. If the ignorance was evenly distributed, then you have no evidence to support the idea that voter ignorance favored Obama.

It is true that if McCain voters were equally ignorant or more ignorant, it wouldn't prove that ignorance was not a factor.

Lets try some analogies. Lets say that we could show 80% of Obama voters had credit card debt amounting to more than 3 months pay. Does that show that personal financial problems was the reason Obama won? Well, it wouldn't if 80% of McCain voters had the same financial problems?


Here's another. Lets say we looked at adult male rapists and could demonstrate that 80% of them had looked at hard core pornography. Could we conclude that hard core pornography caused rape? Well, we would have potent evidence it was a major factor if only 10% adult males who didn't rape had looked at hard core porn, but if 80% of all adult males had seen hard core c=porn, its back to the drawing board.”

““Pure projection. You guys did sit there and stew and moan and cry all through Bush's term, so you think everyone must be as weak and insecure as you.�
Mutt


+1”
Nonconformist
9:44:18 AM
11/20/08

-9

Petitioning the Bush administration for redress of wrong-doing and dishonesty is hardly "stew, moan and cry"-ing.
It is the right and duty of citizens of good conscience.
last edited: 11/20/08 8:54:04 AM”

“This is basic research methodolgy - pedxing

You two are answering two different questions.”

“
� It's simple, really.



Reverse Evolution

(and the resulting political freefall)


Present-day Republicans are some of the most unbelievable #&%!$ups of modern times. � By some miracle they were voted out before the United States began to resemble Somalia.

”

“Ped, the point is that Obama voters have a skewed view of reality. Democrats have to lie to get elected.

The fairness doctrine will be the final nail...”

“The Republicans were sent into the corner to think about their actions. That's the reality.”

“I think they should put you in charge of things in the GOP Strat - they need to listen to views like this.”

“This was Dubya's Secret Plan all along, � ROF”

“Ped, the point is that Obama voters have a skewed view of reality

and what everyone is trying to pound into your head and getting exasperated because you dont get it is:

theyre no more skewed up than anyone else”

“If only Lee Atwater had survived!
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/atwater/”

“Strat - Yep, the Obama campaign spun some BS as did some of his supporters and a lot of people who voted for him were misinformed, uninformed or close minded. I bet some of them even made up their minds who they were voting for and ignored pretty much everything that might make them doubt their choice. All of its true. As a bonus, I'm willing to admit that my s--t stinks.

Now if you want to tell me that McCain and Palin and their campaigns didn't spin BS and all their voters were very well informed, go ahead. You'd have an easier time convincing me that your s--t don't stink, and that Chanel and Revlon are in a bidding war to synthesize and bottle your farts.”

“Atwater was a scumbag.”