Gas cannisters and winter camping

“So, I am going on a winter camping trip next weekend, a two nighter. I am taking a greenhorn with me, so will use the iso-butane cannisters rather than having him mess around with white gas for ease. Temps are not expected to get below 20F at night.

Considering melting snow for two, how long do you think one of the bigger sized fuel cannisters will last?

Anything else I should keep in mind about performance? This is going on a primus stove that has a braided line and doubles as a white gas stove. I have heard you need to put these cans in a pan of water for the cold.

Much thanks, peeps.”

“How long they last depends on how high you run them Rosey...(Not trying to be a smart ass). If you run the flame low and add snow gradually, they will last longer than if you pack a pot with snow and blast the pot on high...

Water works well, one thing I've found that works is to heat just a little water with the stove working poorly due to cold, then pour the hot water over the cannister to warm it up...you'll be amazed at the result.

During the night, throw the cannisters down in the foot of your sleeping bag...then store the cannisters in the stuff sack for the bag when you pack up to move on, that'll insulate them somewhat...alternative is to put the cannisters inside your parka while you hike and keep them warm with body heat...
last edited: 3/01/09 9:08:36 AM”

“You can put a stick-on chemical toe warmer on the concave under side of the fuel canister before or after carrying it inside your clothing.”

“Yes.... if you overexert a bit on the hike and begin to perspire, sticking a cool canister in your armpit will fix you right up,   < G >”

“melting snow eats up a lot of gas and time. snow melts best when primed and fed a bit at a time.

without any other parameters it's impossible to guess how many tanks you may need. without knowing anything else, i'd say bring at least 1ea. they aren't that heavy.

also, don't expect 20F, expect 5F.

why not start this greenhorn off in the summer? winter packing/camping takes a lot more then anything in the other 3 seasons. winter isn't really the time to experiment/gamble.”

“have fun, take one fuel can, u should be fine.”

“Thanks for the input, folks.

The Primus canisters say four season but I guess that means nothing?

Thanks for the concern, offtrack. He'll be OK and is geared out for comfort. Actually, there are 12 of us going on this outting, so I think there'll plenty of xtras if something fails.”

“oh cool and sorry about my comment but i tend to overfactor safety. :)

definitely have fun.”

“Good ting, Rosey.

There are enough of y'all to carry out the body in relay teams.”

“or you could just use kero or wht gas and not mess with the butane”

“white gas is simple and foolproof in the winter - and totally safe if you know how to work your stove. the canisters are fussy at best in cold weather and at worst just don't work.

One smaller bottle of white gas will be plenty to melt snow and cook for two nights.”

“OK. I'm just gonna go white gas and save myself $18 anyway because dang, those canisters are exensive and I have a half-gallon in the basement. He'll figure it out.

Tried and true. Forget that newfangled convenience factor. It's funny. For the Primus Himalaya Multifuel, the owner's manual HEAVILY pushes the gas cans. Check out the fuels section (page 7) and envision this bozo gushing about canisters, like that is what this stove was meant to do (http://www.primus.se/Archive/Documents/Primus%20Dokument/Manuals/Instruction-3288_3278_Multi-and%20Varifuel.pdf). Bozo. It has a fully cnc machined pump mechanism for the bottle. It's a white gas stove.

Thanks for steering me back on track, Roam.
last edited: 3/01/09 6:56:57 PM”

“I think this should be obvious to experienced winter hikers, but...

No matter the heat source it makes a world of difference if you have about a cm. of water at the bottom of the pan before applying heat. The simple thing is to just poor it in from your day's hiking supply. Then add snow a hand full or two at a time.

You should have already painted the pot black(stove/grill spray paint) to save fuel anyway. Black absorbs excess radiant energy, silver reflects it. So, if you've got a sunny day and a bit of daylight left just fill the pot with snow, put the black lid on too, and set it in the sun before setting up camp. You would be amazed how much heat that black paint will soak up from the sun. It won't melt all the snow but, chances are, it'll give you enough water in the bottom of the pan to get a good start. You still have to get it on the stove by sunset or you'll have snow with ice on the bottom. May not work depending on weather conditions(windchill, etc) but if it does you look clever and if not you still saved a bit of water in your blatter/water bottle to prime it. Take most of the snow back out of the pot before heating either way.

I know that offtrack mentioned priming but this was for the folks reading this that didn't get his meaning. I also agree with SuperTroll about the fuel savings of low and slow to save fuel in this case. When my friend and I did comparisons the winner seemed to be a combination of the two . By the way, put a full pot of snow on high heat you can actually 'burn' water. That is you'll get a caron taste in the finished product and a black mark on inside bottom of the pot(unless the pot and snow are surgiacally clean). We tried this with aluminium and stainless steel pots, I don't know how much different the conductivity of titanium is.

The idea is that snow is a great insulator(why snow caves work) so it takes a lot of energy to get that first bit of snow melted but water is a great conductor.

Hope that makes sense to those new to winter camping and thanks for the patience of all the snow owls that just said a collective "Duh!".
last edited: 3/01/09 8:46:47 PM”

“I use two nested pots (dbl boiler) for melting snow. One has the boiling water at a simmer and the other for scooping, melting and pouting off water. I think my setup is made by gsi... Aluminum. Have fun!”

“I can only get the smaller, 11 oz. MSR white gas bottle to last one morning and evening snow camping solo, although in the morning, I let it run until my gear is almost packed up to warm my hands on as needed.”

“huh, i never thought about a 'double boiler' setup for snow melting. I'll have to try that sometime.

crow makes a really good point about starting with a little water in the pot. Makes a big difference.”

“In cold weather a bit of fire paste helps get a gas stove going quickly. At 20 degrees it may by no problem, but if its colder, it helps a lot. For melting snow, white gas is way better than compressed gas, no doubt.

On a sunny winter day, putting snow on or in a black plastic trash bag can generate a lot of water from the snow. A lot more than snow in a pot.”

“That's a neat idea idaho bob, even the most extreme ultra-lite folks can't complain about one extra plastic bag. I'll have to file that away for my next snow trip.”

“http://www.basegear.com/gsi-hard-anodized-double-boiler.html

here is the setup i have but mine is an older model. on sale too...”

“lol, also "Not Available"... sorry but you get the point”