WE SURROUND THEM!

“Mutt, I disagree. Maybe "stupid" is too strong a word, but people in general are impulsive, ignorant, and easily fooled. And politicians know this and act on it. I would bet you that less than half (probably MUCH less than half) of all votes are made with more than the absolute bare minimum of knowledge about a candidate or topic. It wasn't always this way... but in modern society, for whatever reason, people just aren't all that interested in knowing very much about "boring" things like politics and the people they vote for

If the perfect presidential candidate came along, and he had all the right answers for fixing the nation... but he weighed 600 pounds, was ugly as sin, and was a boring public speaker... do you think he'd win?”

“Pepsi, its a lack of education. People like to be told they will "GET SOMETHING".

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville


Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.
Alexis de Tocqueville


and my personal favorite

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville”

“people in general are impulsive, ignorant, and easily fooled... It wasn't always this way.

Bull. There were no good old enlightened days. If democracy was so vulnerable to human psychology, then it would have imploded LONG before now.”

“Remember this from MEN IN BLACK?

Edwards: Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it.
Kay: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.”

“You know, pepsi, you did a great job of discrediting Strat's "we surround them" nonsense. But when all you return with is "people are stupid", well, you deserve some of what you dished out.”

“Pretentious f#cktard is what he is. Very typical Kalifornian.”

“we surround stupid people”

“Very typical Indianian...

8)”

“Very typical Ohioian.


Oh f#ck! I just punked myself!”

“Any sign of the WMD yet?”

“WTF is a typical Ohioan...or whatever? No really what is an "Ohio" Trait? (LOL)”

“no problem, I can take it...

But there were times when voters were more educated and rational. During the Lincoln-Douglas debates (which weren't even for the presidency), they would debate for up to 7 hours (with a dinner break in between) and every person who could possibly attend it would, and would follow every word and, more importantly understand every word. Now, plenty of people based their voting decisions on a series of 30-second commercials with zero actual substance.

I'm not saying it was ever "ideal" - but the concept of democracy is holding faith in the people - and though I certainly would never suggest a government with MORE power, I don't know that the populus as a whole is a very good decision-maker anymore - maybe it never was. One common saying about communism is that it works in practice but fails when you involve people... I'd argue that democracy is being put to that same test and may not fare too well itself (though I'm yet to see Gulags popping up in Alaska... so score one for us there)

And surely that's not the only problem with democracy... my bad on the overgeneralization... but I'd say it's one of the larger ones.”

“I have to agree with you on that Pepsi. During the election I always just wondered exactly what 'CHANGE" meant. But the Republicrats do the same thing.

Buzzwords and slogans do not give an idea of direction.”

“I'd even take you one further - the entire point of a slogan is to incite emotion and action without actually saying anything.

Doesn't the slogan "One people, one nation, one leader" sound like something you could get behind? 30's Germany sure loved it... And yet (if it weren't for the history of the slogan), couldn't you imagine any candidate, left or right, using that or something similar and getting people to really "believe" in it?”

“I just realized that Strat called me Sean Penn. Lol, that totally made my day”

“There was a time when slogans were designed to get the citizen to study deeper into the Canidate. During this election each deep question about qualifications and competence were blocked off by the media.

Sadly I am thinking things would have been just as bad with a McCain Mutiny too.”

“well, and the media itself has become little more than a candied-up informercial. Written media is slightly better, but either way, the "news" is scarcely what's important or relevant, it's what gets the ratings. That's why we can go from a child-rape to a surfing squirrel with only a Burger King commercial as a buffer... it's gotten to be a real search to get relevant information nowadays - ironic since the internet is supposed to make everything instantly accessable.

so, maybe I should revise my statement to "people are kept too stupid by culture & the media to make educated decisions about voting." If I do, maybe Nigal can come up with a new nickname for me”

“i take it back

stupid people surround us

:-)”

“Please CD, I'm not surrounding surrounders am I?”

“Rush Jr sounds like a good nick name for ya. Same elitist attitude.”

“you can do better than that. I think Strat's "Sean Penn" beats that. I'm disappointed”

“Sean Penn's sockpuppet?”

“I still don get this thread. Who do we surround? the confederate flag?”

““Sean Penn's sockpuppet?”

No, Sean Penn's pink sock.”

“LOL@ Imbibelboy.”

“it's gotten to be a real search to get relevant information nowadays - ironic since the internet is supposed to make everything instantly accessable.

Funny, i have no problems accessing quality news.”

“where?”

“Trail Talk, where else?”

“true, TT is the source of all wisdom”

“dood, this isn't about me....at all

It's about quit putting up with the BS

Now...What do you believe in, Pepsi? Don't tell me I'm stupid, just tell me what you believe in. I think we can find common ground....even though I'm a retarded redneck with only 2 teeth and you are....better then all of us....

ok, ok, no I'm sorry,...but really, answer the question.....or else your Sean Penn's doush bag”

“I suppose that's only fair - if I'm gonna snipe from the wings, I have to be willing to take the stage as well... it'll be a bit disjointed because I'm doing this at work between other things, but here goes

I believe in the potential of the individual to be compassionate, humane, rational and decent. However, I have absolutely zero faith in any group of people (organized or otherwise) to have those same qualities. The second people form groups, they begin to think in absolutes while throwing humanity and decency out the window. Democrats think republicans are pure evil and that any democratic politician is completely spotless and perfect, and republicans are the exact same. Pro-lifers can justify murdering doctors, muslims can justify blowing up a bus full of innocent people, and americans can be incited into supporting the invasion of a sovereign nation without really understanding why.

I believe the both parties of the united states government are driven by the same force - that force being big business. Whichever party is in office will always act in the best interest of big business, though which big businesses benefit while others are demonized is where the parties differ. In spite of all the posturing otherwise, politicians don't remotely give a rat's ass about "little people" unless they step out of line.

But because of the convenient division of democrat and republican, people are left bickering about their preferred puppet while raging against the opposite puppet, not realizing the big giant puppet master that's playing them all. If every party-liner stopped seeing things in terms of red and blue, liberal and conservative, and focused his/her effort on combatting or protesting the true oppressive power in this country, maybe something could get done. But, the second any sort of organization toward this mean began, I believe it would fail because of my first point - groups of people, in short, effing suck at actually accomplishing anything.

So, I think nothing can really be done to fix things. I don't believe voting will ever resolve the issue. Though I vote every election, I do it begrudgingly and with the full knowledge that it means less than a mousefart. I think Obama was a lesser evil than McCain, but I'm not nearly blind enough to claim that he's the solution. I know our government is the problem. It is now, it was with the last president, and every other one before that in modern time- maybe eve longer than that. Maybe a couple hundred years of the nation reliably choosing the "lesser evil" might bring about some change, but all it takes is one evil bastard with a catchy slogan to win the office and undo all that work.

If people could somehow be organized against this system, then sure, it might work. But all Americans are beseiged by so much BS, sloganism, and propaganda that we can't seem to find our direction. The Tea Party was a nice idea, but it was brought about by the republicans... it was more of one puppet playing people to hate the other puppet. One of the principles of fascism is to unite the people against a common enemy, and that in hating that common enemy, the people would be kept blind of and obedient to their own government, through countless misdeeds and injustices. George Orwell put forth the argument that the common enemy didn't even have to be real. I think that the American political system has taken that one step further in that it has given us two imaginary common enemies (the democrats and republicans) and allowed us to choose which one we support and which one we hate - so we can sit and fight among ourselves and pretend our imaginary party is 100% good while the other is 100% bad. And you will NEVER be able to break people of that spell - at least in no way I can think of.

Think about it - look at the other posts here - look at the political world. We're fighting about abortion, gay rights, and a maybe-racist-maybe-not comment by a judge - meanwhile families are losing homes, the economy is in the crapper and we STILL have no idea where Bin Laden is. Why are we wasting time with the piddly #&%!$ right now?

My disagreement with you (and I'll admit I've been pretty impolite with it - it's easy to get caught up in the anonymity of the internet and let yourself be a much larger dick than you'd ever be in person) is that, despite your best efforts and overall goal that is, in fact, in line with my own, I feel that your opinion is still being steered by party whores. As long as you take your justification for revolution from Glenn Beck or from conservative newspapers, you're still only seeing half of the enemy. As long as you speak in terms of "liberal" or "conservative", you're still playing into the bipartisan game. And you've said that you know the republican party is just as evil and twisted... yet you take your literature and justification from these republican mouthpieces. It'd be like me declaring war on pet owners, and taking my backup from Cat Fancy magazine. It's a biased opinion, still.

So what is there to do then, since we can't really change the evil and corrupt ways of our leadership? I think all a person can do, since he will never be truly free, is to just try and carve out as much personal, mental, and emotional freedom as one can get from life. Try to see through the BS slogans of advertising, politics, and religion - even though liberation from the haze of mother culture is lonely, it's still better than being imprisoned in it and not even being aware. Live the life you want, not the life Nike, Al Gore or the Pope insist that you want. I'm not anti-consumer or anti-capitalist, but I'm anti advertising and anti-greed. Whenever possible, I avoid supporting large corporations and defer my spending to independently owned businesses when possible (living in L.A., that's hard to do, but I try).

One of the big reasons I backpack is because it offers a near-total escape from this culture. You can get away, even for just a night or two, from all the advertising, inconsiderate drivers, cell phones, television, bills, political noise, bumper stickers and hate - you can find complete silence and peace where, if you're lucky, you might even be able to get your soul-sucking job off your mind for a bit. Out there, out anywhere a few mile's walk from the nearest road, they can't touch you. Out there, it feels like, I'd imagine, life would feel without all these deceptive, dishonest, and greedy politicians, advertisers and clerics always whispering in my ear. To me, the scenery is nice, but it's only an arbitrary destination to justify the walk. It's all I can do. We're all trapped in this #&%!$ty little world while people in high places lie and smile in our faces and turn us into uncaring and cold a**holes (living in southern california, it might be worse here than in other places, but people treat complete strangers worse than I'd treat a dead rat) - the best we can do if try to carve out a corner of it and try to be as free as they will let you.

So in short, I believe that Americans as a people will never be free, but it is possible to obtain maybe just a little bit of individual freedom if you're able to block out the voices of those who lie to us and play us like puppets - if you're able to escape this diseased culture either physically, mentally, or both.”

“My feet fit in every step of that trail, thanks.”

“that's about the size of things i'd say.”

“... and if the people ever decided to start organizing against the real problem, it would immediately begin to splinter because of all the little special interests that people would want included. Someone would want to make sure that, in addition to ending government corruption, extra/special/equal rights need to be given to single mothers or gays or african americans or amputees or the homeless or any other of the million special interest groups which each of us belong to five or six of. You'd end up with the same problem you have now - an enormous spectrum of political beliefs - with each tiny niche hating the other 99% of the people in the political world and therefore being completely impotent to change anything

this has existed since the invention of politics”

“I'm tired of being surrounded by something that isn't warm and wet.”

“That's what you get for living in The Stinking Desert.”

“geesh dood, seems like you'd wanna join me instead of argue with me...”

““I'd never join a club that would allow a person like me to become a member.”
-- Groucho Marx”

“"But what do we mean by the American Revolution? Do we mean the American war? The Revolution was effected before the war commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution."

- JOHN ADAMS, 1818”

“Everybody run, Stratdood's got a gun!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8hxCpAdCJI”

“The last teabagel got lost in an Argentinian, no?”

“Oh,
Give me a home
Where,
The buffalo roam
(everybody sing!!!)”

“Have they figured out who "they" are yet?

They brought be the wrong entree.

They starched my underwear!”

“Starched underwear...thats one that will chafe your willie.”

“That was a little disturbing, but it came from the heart.
I applaud you, good sir.”

“"They" are little old ladies in white tennis shoes.”

“Arkansas? Okay can I bring a significant other who is NOT related to me by blood?”

“As long as she's tha pertiest girl in da whole trailer park and both her teeth are good......”