“You come on here with bumper sticker slogans and whine about the lack of substance?

Do you really think you've sown the seeds for a good discussion? All you've posted are vague generalities and insults.

What is there to discuss?”

“FAIL!

next?”

“HAHAHAHAHAHAHA What a FOOL!!!!!!

Babs Boxer Objects to Protesters Being Too 'Well Dressed'”

“I'd really try to let this thread die. I can't really think seriously about being surrounded by something that consist only of old smoke and dirty mirrors.”

“It's not gonna die till I do. We're not going away, we won't be silent any more.”

“Stovie, isn't Boxer the one making those racist remarks a little while back to Harry Alford?”

“Are you going to encourage higher birth rates to increase the surrounders? Maybe accelerate the onset of end times with their consumption?”

“

In America, Crazy Is a Preexisting Condition

Birthers, Town Hall Hecklers and the Return of Right-Wing Rage

By Rick Perlstein
Sunday, August 16, 2009

In Pennsylvania last week, a citizen, burly, crew-cut and trembling with rage, went nose to nose with his baffled senator: "One day God's going to stand before you, and he's going to judge you and the rest of your damned cronies up on the Hill. And then you will get your just deserts." He was accusing Arlen Specter of being too kind to President Obama's proposals to make it easier for people to get health insurance.

In Michigan, meanwhile, the indelible image was of the father who wheeled his handicapped adult son up to Rep. John Dingell and bellowed that "under the Obama health-care plan, which you support, this man would be given no care whatsoever." He pressed his case further on Fox News.

In New Hampshire, outside a building where Obama spoke, cameras trained on the pistol strapped to the leg of libertarian William Kostric. He then explained on CNN why the "tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of tyrants and patriots."

It was interesting to hear a BBC reporter on the radio trying to make sense of it all. He quoted a spokesman for the conservative Americans for Tax Reform: "Either this is a genuine grass-roots response, or there's some secret evil conspirator living in a mountain somewhere orchestrating all this that I've never met." The spokesman was arguing, of course, that it was spontaneous, yet he also proudly owned up to how his group has helped the orchestration, through sample letters to the editor and "a little bit of an ability to put one-pagers together."

The BBC also quoted liberal Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin's explanation: "They want to get a little clip on YouTube of an effort to disrupt a town meeting and to send the congressman running for his car. This is an organized effort . . . you can trace it back to the health insurance industry."

So the birthers, the anti-tax tea-partiers, the town hall hecklers -- these are "either" the genuine grass roots or evil conspirators staging scenes for YouTube? The quiver on the lips of the man pushing the wheelchair, the crazed risk of carrying a pistol around a president -- too heartfelt to be an act. The lockstep strangeness of the mad lies on the protesters' signs -- too uniform to be spontaneous. They are both. If you don't understand that any moment of genuine political change always produces both, you can't understand America, where the crazy tree blooms in every moment of liberal ascendancy, and where elites exploit the crazy for their own narrow interests.

In the early 1950s, Republicans referred to the presidencies of Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman as "20 years of treason" and accused the men who led the fight against fascism of deliberately surrendering the free world to communism. Mainline Protestants published a new translation of the Bible in the 1950s that properly rendered the Greek as connoting a more ambiguous theological status for the Virgin Mary; right-wingers attributed that to, yes, the hand of Soviet agents. And Vice President Richard Nixon claimed that the new Republicans arriving in the White House "found in the files a blueprint for socializing America."

When John F. Kennedy entered the White House, his proposals to anchor America's nuclear defense in intercontinental ballistic missiles -- instead of long-range bombers -- and form closer ties with Eastern Bloc outliers such as Yugoslavia were taken as evidence that the young president was secretly disarming the United States. Thousands of delegates from 90 cities packed a National Indignation Convention in Dallas, a 1961 version of today's tea parties; a keynote speaker turned to the master of ceremonies after his introduction and remarked as the audience roared: "Tom Anderson here has turned moderate! All he wants to do is impeach [Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl] Warren. I'm for hanging him!"

Before the "black helicopters" of the 1990s, there were right-wingers claiming access to secret documents from the 1920s proving that the entire concept of a "civil rights movement" had been hatched in the Soviet Union; when the landmark 1964 Civil Rights Act was introduced, one frequently read in the South that it would "enslave" whites. And back before there were Bolsheviks to blame, paranoids didn't lack for subversives -- anti-Catholic conspiracy theorists even had their own powerful political party in the 1840s and '50s.

The instigation is always the familiar litany: expansion of the commonweal to empower new communities, accommodation to internationalism, the heightened influence of cosmopolitans and the persecution complex of conservatives who can't stand losing an argument. My personal favorite? The federal government expanded mental health services in the Kennedy era, and one bill provided for a new facility in Alaska. One of the most widely listened-to right-wing radio programs in the country, hosted by a former FBI agent, had millions of Americans believing it was being built to intern political dissidents, just like in the Soviet Union.

So, crazier then, or crazier now? Actually, the similarities across decades are uncanny. When Adlai Stevenson spoke at a 1963 United Nations Day observance in Dallas, the Indignation forces thronged the hall, sweating and furious, shrieking down the speaker for the television cameras. Then, when Stevenson was walked to his limousine, a grimacing and wild-eyed lady thwacked him with a picket sign. Stevenson was baffled. "What's the matter, madam?" he asked. "What can I do for you?" The woman responded with self-righteous fury: "Well, if you don't know I can't help you."

The various elements -- the liberal earnestly confused when rational dialogue won't hold sway; the anti-liberal rage at a world self-evidently out of joint; and, most of all, their mutual incomprehension -- sound as fresh as yesterday's news. (Internment camps for conservatives? That's the latest theory of tea party favorite Michael Savage.)

The orchestration of incivility happens, too, and it is evil. Liberal power of all sorts induces an organic and crazy-making panic in a considerable number of Americans, while people with no particular susceptibility to existential terror -- powerful elites -- find reason to stoke and exploit that fear. And even the most ideologically fair-minded national media will always be agents of cosmopolitanism: something provincials fear as an outside elite intent on forcing different values down their throats.

That provides an opening for vultures such as Richard Nixon, who, the Watergate investigation discovered, had his aides make sure that seed blossomed for his own purposes. "To the Editor . . . Who in the hell elected these people to stand up and read off their insults to the President of the United States?" read one proposed "grass-roots" letter manufactured by the White House. "When will you people realize that he was elected President and he is entitled to the respect of that office no matter what you people think of him?" went another.

Liberals are right to be vigilant about manufactured outrage, and particularly about how the mainstream media can too easily become that outrage's entry into the political debate. For the tactic represented by those fake Nixon letters was a long-term success. Conservatives have become adept at playing the media for suckers, getting inside the heads of editors and reporters, haunting them with the thought that maybe they are out-of-touch cosmopolitans and that their duty as tribunes of the people's voices means they should treat Obama's creation of "death panels" as just another justiciable political claim. If 1963 were 2009, the woman who assaulted Adlai Stevenson would be getting time on cable news to explain herself. That, not the paranoia itself, makes our present moment uniquely disturbing.

It used to be different. You never heard the late Walter Cronkite taking time on the evening news to "debunk" claims that a proposed mental health clinic in Alaska is actually a dumping ground for right-wing critics of the president's program, or giving the people who made those claims time to explain themselves on the air. The media didn't adjudicate the ever-present underbrush of American paranoia as a set of "conservative claims" to weigh, horse-race-style, against liberal claims. Back then, a more confident media unequivocally labeled the civic outrage represented by such discourse as "extremist" -- out of bounds.

The tree of crazy is an ever-present aspect of America's flora. Only now, it's being watered by misguided he-said-she-said reporting and taking over the forest. Latest word is that the enlightened and mild provision in the draft legislation to help elderly people who want living wills -- the one hysterics turned into the "death panel" canard -- is losing favor, according to the Wall Street Journal, because of "complaints over the provision."

Good thing our leaders weren't so cowardly in 1964, or we would never have passed a civil rights bill -- because of complaints over the provisions in it that would enslave whites.”

“How's your SEIU thugs doing, vile?
I've read they have moved on from beating up black guys to old women now.”

“Those damn right-wingers sure seem to have the market cornered on kookiness.”

“Liberal hecklers = grassroots freedom fighters

Nonliberal hecklers = right wing nut jobs

It becomes fairly obvious that one side doesn't have enough validity to their cause when their only defense is marginalizing those who simply do not agree with them.

So Violin, why do you on the left hate open debate so much? Wasn't the lack of debate during the Bush years one of the big sticking points politically? So you are no better than the obstructionist republicans then?”

“Hang on there V, I'm trying to find the shiny obect after the last person used it. Technically speaking, you do NOT have to answer him.”

“So Violin, why do you on the left hate open debate so much? Wasn't the lack of debate during the Bush years one of the big sticking points politically? So you are no better than the obstructionist republicans then?”
Nigal
6:41:47 PM
8/16/09

What do you mean by a lack of debate during the Bush years Nigal? You mean how the politcal system was functioning?”

“We heard and saw how the republicans, having full control, pushed everything through and the democrats on the left would bytch and moan about the lack of debate.

i see no difference in behavior now that the democrats control everything. But that may be a good thing to someone who like me who claims neither party because at least I won't be surprised by anything.”

“Y2 is such a master debater.”

“Well I think if the Democrats were really pushing it thorugh we'd be there now, as the votes are these to do it.

And it's not debate that's the problem. It's the tone of the debate and the lies that are being told. Lets call them what they are. They're lies. They're designed to push some buttons on a particular base, and generate an emotional response. It's also seeminly endorsed by the leaders of the conservative movement from TV personalities to politicians.

I'm not sure Bush 'forcing things through' was a popular complaint as much as a reflection of how business was being conducted on the hill.
last edited: 8/16/09 6:56:41 PM”

“I spoke about the lack of debate, not so much pushing things through. Lies? Good gawd man, that stench your smelling is simply the shoe being on the other foot. All this is still the same old shyt that went on for the last 8 years except the roles are simply reversed.”

“We talking about specific issues or something in particular?”

“It's like a large psychotic amoeba.”

“Too bad there isn't a way to just fry the great-grandchildren of people who talk the coalmining industry line. � Everybody loses, unfortunately.�
Tilt
5:26:43 PM
8/20/07”

“Let's get back to the subject which is that we are on the verge of loosing our Republic. Does any one honestly think that Democrats lie awake at night worrying about peoples healthcare? This is their way of changing the dynamic in their favor for a very long time, which will end in certain distaster. Once they have enough people dependant on Government, they ensure their re-election. They'll say "If you vote for Republicans they will take away your free healthcare".

What's even more troubling is the collection of extremely radical czars and advisors Obama is listening to and has given unaccountable power to. Among them are poeple who want to control the population by putting steralants in our drinking water (Look up the science czar). It's all ties into the green movement. They think we have too many people on Earth. Rom Emanual's brother ezekual keeps coming up and he's got some crazy ideas things too. Please research these people for yourself, don't take my word for it. Also, look at all the YOUTUBS videos of Obama and other Progressive liberals talking about how they want a Govt system only. The proof you need is there.

Don't be embarrased or shy. Stand up for your freedom. Let your senators and congresspeeps how you feel. There are real problems but this madness isn't the answer. Listen to your gut. You feel that something is wrong. Get a copy of this propasal online and read it. It's a game changer. The Government Machine will roll over us all if this passes. They'll go after food next if they pass healthcare. I guarantee it. It may take a while but they will justify it by saying you have top eat what we say if we're paying for your health care. You can't be obese, etc. The implications are profound to say the least. Almost all the people I kopw feel the same way I do about this. Most won't do anything about it thought. They say it won't matter to go to a tea party or town hall. I just don't want to explain to my kids some day why I didn't do anything about it. Around half of the citizens didn't even vote last election. Those are the people who are waking up. The chronically apathetic. Numbed and dumbed by society's distractions and routines. Worker bees who never look up from their little lives are starting to notice that things are getting out of kilter.

Be vigilant, be bold, hold them accountable and insist on nothing less than OUR will.”

“You're crazier than s h i t h o u s e rats.”

“Too bad there isn't a way to just fry the great-grandchildren of people who talk the coalmining industry line. � Everybody loses, unfortunately.�
Tilt
5:26:43 PM
8/20/07”

“Quick - lets all surround Strat and take away his freedom! It'll give him something to talk about at the next teabaggers' convention. LIBBIES UNITE!!!!!”

“I'm stickin' pins in my health care insurance doll right now; corn, corn, keely, corn, corn, dance on gilded splitters.”

“i see no difference in behavior now that the democrats control everything.
Nigal


Really?

The angry mobs shouting down opposing viewpoints at town hall meetings?

These people aren't interested in debate - they're intent on shutting it down.

Remember how Bush's Social Security town hall meetings were carefully screened and orchestrated? They were invitation only and only supporters were permitted to attend. Remember the loyalty oath attendees were required to sign? How people with liberal bumper stickers or t-shirts were denied admission and/or arrested?

You really see no difference? How independent-minded you are.”

“Can you imagine what would have happened if someone had stood across from a Bush event with a pistol strapped to their leg and a threatening sign?”

“LOL - open carry causes violin to piss his pants. Sissy.”

“LOL - open carry causes Mutt to cum in his pants. Wanker.”

“Yes, we'd interfere with The D00d's God-given right to be ripped off by the insurance industry if we could.

Terrible. Just terrible.


And if Pistola Guy pulled that crap on Bush, I think it's a good bet he could've found himself in a very dark place for an undetermined period of time.

As it is, he's in the database now ----

I've heard that before a President goes anywhere, the Secret Service does a great deal of advance work. They might hit town weeks before the event to keep an eye on the known crazies. I've heard that for every agent you see, there are five or seven more that you don't.”

“Why does the prez has to interact with the public so much? What is it they are trying to sell. The novelty of first black should have run it's course by now.”

“I think I've lost my surround!”

“Vile...where exactly do you get your info?

Tilty....(oh boy here we go again) you do KNOW that organized poltical events are one of the things that even permit carry is NOT allowed?”

“Open carry, permit Carry, John Kerry, you're a fairy , Mayor Barry, pop a cherry.”

“You gots a big noisy family dere Rosey. That tatblue arm dude has da statue of liberty on his left arm -Silly Libby”

“I think the title for this photo montage is:

Angry White People Who Are Waking Up to Civics But Don't Know How to Act in a Public Forum.”

““We talking about specific issues or something in particular?”

In general.”

“Really?

The angry mobs shouting down opposing viewpoints at town hall meetings?

WTF are you watching? The meeting I saw they gave the mic to a guy and he spoke about why he was against it. I didn't shout him down. He was then, of course escorted out of the meeting. Sen. Specter' response was that he (Specter) was there of his own volition and he didn't have to be there.

But then again, you always were one for dramatics.”

“Anyone ever notice that these town hall meetins are always schedules at the same time as militia training or range night at the gun club?”