Pending Health Care Reform

“Thanks NonC - another big zero.

You get a little more like stove stomper each day huh. That's something for you to look forward to isn't it.”

“LOL”

“Good to see him trying to reel these things away from conservative fantasy land and back into reality.”

“You get a little more like stove stomper each day huh.

Geezus, stovey and tilt are already almost indistinguishable. Can we take yet another one?

”

“Forgot to switch to your troll, Nigal?”

“Nigal - well I know NonConformist is a bit younger than stove stomper - has slightly less hair, so the one on the left maybe?”

“This is worth a read. Testimony of health care exec on what they try to do.

http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files/PotterTestimonyConsumerHealthInsurance.pdf”

“A LOT less hair. (I'm the one in the middle.)”

“'A LOT less hair. (I'm the one in the middle.)”

You're less Harry than Wendell Potter?”

“In effect, it's the teabaggers that want their grandmothers to die.”

“Too bad there isn't a way to just fry the great-grandchildren of people who talk the coalmining industry line. � Everybody loses, unfortunately.�
Tilt
5:26:43 PM
8/20/07”

“HOUSE PUSHES BACK VOTE TILL LATE SEPTEMBER...”

“Nice shirt.”

“T*ltypoo wants to kill your children.”

“stovestomper, it's not even funny. Go away, you don't hike anymore, no one misses you, you don't contribute.”
OPIE
9:25:35 PM
8/16/09
ignore this user
report this message”








“GOD DAMN IT KEVIN, WHY THE HELL DO YOU HAVE TO F UP EVERY THREAD...F'ING STOP IT! We don't want to hear politics or feugo every time you feel like butting in b!tch
OPIE
5:22:03 PM
8/10/09
last edited: 8/10/09 5:21:51 PM”””””””

“Let him go, he's the right wing tea bagger in a thimble. Y2 is correct(not using right) they all will start sounding like SternO soon.”

“Okay today the news announces Prez is starting to BACK DOWN on some of his ideas...this means there REALLY wasn't a bill to vote on before the recess...Just vote and we will tell you what will happen?

GOOD LORD>”

“Tsk tsk”

“Can anyone decode XL's last post?”

“Did SternO stick a little thing in XLs ear that he doesn't know about, voices....voices.....”

“Can anyone decode XL's last post?�
-Violin


Tbvmn kjvr lvhscb LIBBIES cblwebf lfgrjgjf FEEEEEELINGS vcsvbvb jkwhgflw LOL.”

“Um okay..Vile here we go

Shortly BEFORE the recess we were told how URGENT it was to get the health care bill passed (do I need to reference all the news articles?)

Now we are being told that the PrezBO is considering Dropping some of the ideas for Government Control FROM the bill.

My question was this.

If this was such a great "done deal" (meaning I always thought a law was pretty much thought out before politicians were supposed to vote on it) why are we even now learning what actually was IN the bill?

Wasn't this supposed to be the most Transparent Presidency in History? Wasn't this Elpresidentemaximus supposed to be the guy where EVERYTHING was known about 5 DAYS before it was voted on?

But apparently the SAVIOR of health care didn't REALLY know what was in his OWN FREAKING bill.

SO we must conclude he is either an idiot on a scale that eclipses anything you could say about the previous occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania, or he is a lying duplicitious Socialist who JUST wanted Power....

Its really your choice.”

“OH Cool new program

Cash For Codgers
My friend Pres sent me this.

Democrats, realizing the success of the President's "Cash For Clunkers" rebate program, have revamped a major portion of their National Health Care Plan.

President Obama, Speaker Pelosi, and Sen. Reed are expected to make this major announcement at a joint news conference later this week. I have obtained an advanced copy of the proposal which is named....

"CASH FOR CODGERS" and it works like this... Couples wishing to access health care funds in order to pay for the delivery of a child will be required to turn in one old person. The amount the government grants them will be fixed according to a sliding scale. Older and more prescription dependent codgers will garner the highest amounts.

Special "Bonuses" will be paid for those submitting codgers in targeted groups, such as smokers, alcohol drinkers, persons 10 pounds over their government prescribed weight, and any member of the Republican Party.

Smaller bonuses will be given for codgers who consume beef, soda, fried foods, potato chips, lattes, whole milk, dairy products, bacon, Brussel sprouts, or Girl Scout Cookies.

All codgers will be rendered totally useless via toxic injection. This will insure that they are not secretly resold or their body parts harvested to keep other codgers in repair.
Posted by denny at August 13, 2009 02:36 PM ”

“WOW

August 17, 2009
A doctor responds to Obama's NYT op-ed
G. Wesley Clark, MD
Mr. President, I just read your op-ed in the New York Times. You must either be incredibly ignorant (e.g., pediatricians performing tonsillectomies, surgeons being paid $50,000 for an amputation), or else you believe that Americans are incredibly stupid.


You justify a hasty and massive healthcare "reform" to save money, by spending an additional trillion dollars. You would fix a "broken" and broke Medicare system by adding another 47 million beneficiaries to government programs while arguing this will reduce overall costs.


I've itemized your inaccurate claims, with my comments in italics.


You assert that your healthcare reform will:

�Force insurance companies to insure pre-existing conditions. That's like allowing bettors to wait till after the race has been run, to place their bets. That won't cut costs.
�Eliminate lifetime limits on coverage. Unlimited lifetime coverages must increase premiums to pay for them and will raise total costs.
�Require insurance companies to pay for routine examinations, preventive care, and screening tests like mammograms and colonoscopies. Once again, how can you be insured against a sure thing? The only way my company can pay for a colonoscopy is to add enough onto the premium to pay for it, plus their overhead.
�Make Medicare more efficient, so tax dollars won't enrich insurance companies. Insurance companies do not derive income from Medicare, because it is a federal program. Incidentally, its costs per patient have increased much faster than private insurance.
�Cut hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and inefficiency in federal health programs like Medicare and Medicaid. These programs have been in effect over 40 years -- and I've seen the waste and inefficiency for most of that interval. Did you just find out about the waste and inefficiency now, and why hasn't something already been done about it?


You claim that:


�"If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan." But didn't you just imply this week that Medicare Advantage subsidizes insurance companies and should be eliminated to save money?
�"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." But large numbers of doctors have indicated that they will quit or retire if this plan is enacted
�"You will not be waiting in any lines." Maybe you won't but we will. Your plan will add up to 47 million new insureds, with no increase in the supply of primary care physicians that are already in short supply.


We physicians live with our healthcare system, all day and every day. We care about being able to heal. We hate disputing with insurance companies, and especially with government bureaucrats. Certainly changes in insurance practices are needed, and would have occurred long ago, absent a government record of 60 years of meddling with the market.


As you say, "...let's disagree over issues that are real, and not wild misrepresentations" such as those in your op-ed, "that bear no resemblance to anything that anyone has actually proposed."


And I agree, this is about America's future: whether Americans will remain free, or be ruled by an increasingly intrusive and authoritarian statist government.


G. Wesley Clark, MD

(Doctor Clark is not related to the retired general of the same name) ”

“Triple slam bold reaction there WOG. Why not all caps?”

“http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/08/democrats_choose_their_own_adventurestep.php

Aug 17 2009, 4:07 pm by Marc Ambinder

Health Care: Choose Your Own Adventure

With apologies to Edward Packard and Bantam Books...


The White House is always accusing the media of treating health reform like a game. So..

Step 1. The health care system is broken and needs reform.



If you agree with this statement, please go to Step 50.


If you disagree with this statement, please go to Step 50.


Step 2: If you're afraid that ObamaCare will spell the end of private insurance and be a total disaster, Go to Step 54. If you support -- in general -- the consensus insurance reforms in the House and Senate bill, go to Step 3. If you support a single payer system and are worried that the White House has conceded way too much, go to step 33.


Step 3: If you believe that, even with insurance reforms, health care isn't worth the effort unless it includes a "public option," go to step 5.


If you believe that "consumer protections," combined with some cost-cutting measures, higher taxes on the rich, structural reforms and inducements TBD are good enough, Go to step 4.


Step 4: Congratulations. I've identified you, at heart, as a health care policy wonk with center-left tendencies. Or, you work in the White House. Go to step 6.


Step 5: You're outraged that the White House thinks the public plan is negotiable. Go to step 6.


Step 6: House Democrats say that a conference bill without a public option won't pass their chamber. If you believe their threat, Go to step 8. If you think they're bluffing, go to step 7.


Step 7. All your focus is on getting to 60 votes in the Senate. If you think Sen. Ted Kennedy will be able to return to the Senate and cast the 60th vote, go to Step 8. If you don't think Kennedy will return to cast the deciding vote, go to Step 9.


Step 8: You're focusing on a handful of Democrats and a few Republicans. If you think you should play hardball, go to step 10. If you think you should let the finance committee, messy as it is, reach a consensus, go to step 11.


Step 9: If you think 61 votes is undoable, you decide to take a gamble on the reconcilliation process. Go to step 35. Else, proceed to step 8.


Step 10: The White House fills in the details: reform is a must. It's a clarifying issue. When the American people watch the final, final vote, they're going to view the pro-reform side as being "right," and senators need to get on the right side of history. If you think this is sufficient enough, go to step 14. If you think this is an insufficient threat, go to step 13.


Step 11: Your base approval rating drops another 10 points. If you think this is temporary, go to step 12. If you're worried, to back to step 6.


Step 12: Wait a while. Then go to step 16.


Step 13: You have your chief of staff threaten to cut the balls off of any Democrat who KOs his president's signature item. If you think this will work, go to step 16. If not, go to step 15:


Step 14: You bargain that the polarization of the health care debate will diminish over time, and that appeals to logic and reason are sufficient, and that things will sort themselves out in the end. If you're confident, go step 16. If not, go back to step 8.


Step 15: You resort to bribery and trickery, are arrested, and thrown into jail. Game over.


Step 16: The Senate falls in line, and passes a health care bill that includes a government-funded co-op and no public option. The House passes a bill with a public option. A conference begins.


If you think this is plausible, go to step 17. If you think the Senate won't fall in line and won't pass a bill, go to step 20.


Step 17. Stalemate in conference. If you think the conference bill is reported out WITH a public option, go to step 24. If you think the conference bill is reported out without a public option, go to step 25.


Step 20: Health care is scrapped for the year. If you agree with James Carville that the Democrats should punish the Republicans for killing it, go to step 21. If you think the Democrats should punish the Democrats for killing it, go to step 22. If you think the Democrats ought to remain mute, go to step 22.


Step 21: This works. Go to step 40. This doesn't work. Go to step 23.


Step 22: In January of 2010, The Democrats try again. If it works this time, go to Step 16. If it does not, go to step 23


Step 23: Democrats are wiped out in the election of 2010,. having no accomplishment to show for it. If you think this is a likely scenario, go to Charlie Cook's symposiums. If you don't, turn on MSNBC. Game over. Go to Step 61.


Step 24: The House and Senate pass a bill with a public option. Obama has won. Go to Step 61.


Step 25: If you think House liberals will cave, having been sufficiently, ah, induced, by the White House, go to step 26. If you think they will hold, go to step 27. If you think the Senate Democrats won't support the conference report with a public option, go to step 27.


Step 26. Go to step 24.


Step 27: If you think that a permanent stalemate arises, go to step 20. If you think that a third way compromise can be reached, go to step 28.


Step 28: A third way compromise is reached. If you think that the House and Senate manage to pass a bill and that Obama will get credit by the American people and his base for health care reform, go to step 29. If you think that Obama's "win" will be seen as a loss, go to step 30.


Step 29: Obama, brimming with confidence, ends the year with high approval ratings again. Democrats, sensing the popularity of the president and his bill, have something to run on in 2010. Go to step 40.


Step 30. You convene a conference to figure out what Obama should do in 2010 in order to cast his first year and a half as a success. Public opinion gradually softens over time, and Obama's approval rating creeps up. If you think it will creep up, go to step 40. If not, go to step 32.


Step 32: 2010 opens with Republicans and Democrats on an even footing, but President Obama has lost much of his luster, and struggles to regain the magic. His experiment at political reform -- the Obama project -- has failed. Obama decides to govern as an unreconstructed liberal. If you think this is a plausible scenario, e-mail me. If not, you recruit Joe Lockhart and Joel Johnson to take over the White House. Go to Step 61.


Step 33: If you believe that reform ain't worth the paper it's printed on unless it changes the health care system to single papyer, go to step 34. If you agree that the consumer protections are worth having, even if the rest of the bill totally sucks, go to step 4.


Step 34. The bus to Canada has plenty of open seats. Game over. Go to Step 61.


Step 35. If the Senate parliamentarian is skeptical, go to step 8. If the Senate parliamentarian lets you wind up with a pretty good bill, many provisions sunset within five years, and you're consistently fighting an implementation battle with Republicans. Go to Step 61.


Step 40: Democrats lose, at most, a few seats in the House and one or two in the Senate. It's possible that they pick up seats in both chambers.


Step 50: You have private health insurance. You develop pancreatic cancer. Your health insurer won't pay for experimental treatments. Go to Step 51.


You have Medicare. You develop pancreatic cancer. Treatment is available, but you won't get it for several months. Go to Step 51.


Step 51: You decide that the health care system is broken and needs reform. Go to step 2.


Step 54: You are probably a Republican, or a conservative independent, or a libertarian.


Step 61: Turns out that the White House underestimated costs. Congress approves emergency supplemental of $500-billion and raises Debt Ceiling to $14.5-trillion.”

“
Anyone else catch this? (got Flash?)

�Newsmakers�
C-SPAN
Sunday 08/16/09
6:00-6:31 PM EDT

Karen Ignagni, President and CEO of the industry trade group "America's Health Insurance Plans" talked about the debate on health care, including proposals favored and opposed by the health insurance industry, the content and tone of the debate on health care in and out of Washington and other related issues with Ezra Klein (Washington Post Domestic Policy Correspondent), Jennifer Haberkorn (Moonie Congressional Correspondent) and host (Susan Swain?). After the interview the reporters in the studio discussed her responses with the host.

She's one of the top health insurance industry lobbyists in the country. Incredibly slippery.... I mean, World Class slippery.

”

“From her Bio

....Prior to joining AAHP in 1993,In the 1980s, she Ms. Ignagni directed the AFL-CIO's Department of Employee Benefits. was a professional staff member on the U.S. Senate Labor and Human Resources Committee, preceded by work at the Committee for National Health Insurance and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.


Anyone want to discuss the sweetheart deal the Obama care program will make for Union Thugs?
last edited: 8/18/09 7:23:32 AM”

“Ignorance is obviously bliss in your case.”

“So you are debating the quote from her own bio?”

“She�s definitely not a thug ---- so the entire exercise is outside your realm of understanding.”

“Never ending smudge- day after day ,we spend the time away, writing smudge blotches in the sand.”

“Nothing really new under the Sun, is there?”

“NHP-Nimrods Healthcare Proposal(Short Version Highlights)

Tier 1- All Sicknesses and even Stitches paid out of pocket-(including perscriptions)Sore Throats, sniffles coughs, muscle aches, rashes, bites etc Maybe we need less doctors for this tier

Tier 2-Broken Bones-paid by Government Healthcare Tax Car accidents, fall out of tree, fights, falling into a gorge etc. Emergency Room

Tier 3-Cancer, Organ Failure- Insurance Company Employment Based (like it is now) Its not a RIGHT Hey death will come and you cant give all that health care away by having others pay for it

(The Tier 1&2 people pay for for all this now with inflated premiums)


My problem with this proposal and even the various heath care reform is I would think the Research for new health care break thru's are going to be on the short end of the money and funding. Less new leading Technologies
last edited: 8/18/09 10:14:51 AM”

“If everyone could live ten years longer for ten million dollars each in HC should collectively we pay for that in taxes or insurance premiums?”

“So tilt where exactly did I say "she" was a thug? (LOL)

Keep going we all see where you are following the script.”

“
SHEER Beauty ---- Billionaires For Wealthcare

”

“WOW great reference location there Tilty. You gonna reference Global warming by quoting a Washed up Failed Politican next?”

“Poor t*lty is posting for his bloggs, again.
Sad.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/politicsunseriously/2009/08/billionaires-for-wealthcare.html”

“Mr. President,

I just read your op-ed in the New York Times. You must either be incredibly ignorant (e.g., pediatricians performing tonsillectomies, surgeons being paid $50,000 for an amputation), or else you believe that Americans are incredibly stupid.

You justify a hasty and massive healthcare "reform" to save money, by spending an additional trillion dollars. You would fix a "broken" and broke Medicare system by adding another 47 million beneficiaries to government programs while arguing this will reduce overall costs.

I've itemized your inaccurate claims, with my comments in italics.

You assert that your healthcare reform will:

· Force insurance companies to insure pre-existing conditions. That's like allowing bettors to wait till after the race has been run, to place their bets. That won't cut costs.

· Eliminate lifetime limits on coverage. Unlimited lifetime coverages must increase premiums to pay for them and will raise total costs.

· Require insurance companies to pay for routine examinations, preventive care, and screening tests like mammograms and colonoscopies. Once again, how can you be insured against a sure thing? The only way my company can pay for a colonoscopy is to add enough onto the premium to pay for it, plus their overhead.

· Make Medicare more efficient, so tax dollars won't enrich insurance companies. Insurance companies do not derive income from Medicare, because it is a federal program. Incidentally, its costs per patient have increased much faster than private insurance.

· Cut hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and inefficiency in federal health programs like Medicare and Medicaid. These programs have been in effect over 40 years -- and I've seen the waste and inefficiency for most of that interval. Did you just find out about the waste and inefficiency now, and why hasn't something already been done about it?

You claim that:

· "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan." But didn't you just imply this week that Medicare Advantage subsidizes insurance companies and should be eliminated to save money?

· "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." But large numbers of doctors have indicated that they will quit or retire if this plan is enacted

· "You will not be waiting in any lines." Maybe you won't but we will. Your plan will add up to 47 million new insureds, with no increase in the supply of primary care physicians that are already in short supply.

We physicians live with our healthcare system, all day and every day. We care about being able to heal. We hate disputing with insurance companies, and especially with government bureaucrats. Certainly changes in insurance practices are needed, and would have occurred long ago, absent a government record of 60 years of meddling with the market.

As you say, "...let's disagree over issues that are real, and not wild misrepresentations" such as those in your op-ed, "that bear no resemblance to anything that anyone has actually proposed."

And I agree, this is about America's future: whether Americans will remain free, or be ruled by an increasingly intrusive and authoritarian statist government.

G. Wesley Clark, MD”

“The estimate 47 million uninsured americans is probably under by about 9 million, so it would be about 56 million, which is equal to the sum population of Afghanistan and Iraq. Do you coniberaltives see any pattern in this. LMAO”

“Procedure Denied.

And we regret to inform you, your premium incresed by 15% this month.”

“�Um okay..Vile here we go

Shortly BEFORE the recess we were told how URGENT it was to get the health care bill passed (do I need to reference all the news articles?)

Now we are being told that the PrezBO is considering Dropping some of the ideas for Government Control FROM the bill.

My question was this.

If this was such a great "done deal" (meaning I always thought a law was pretty much thought out before politicians were supposed to vote on it) why are we even now learning what actually was IN the bill?

Wasn't this supposed to be the most Transparent Presidency in History? Wasn't this Elpresidentemaximus supposed to be the guy where EVERYTHING was known about 5 DAYS before it was voted on?

But apparently the SAVIOR of health care didn't REALLY know what was in his OWN FREAKING bill.

SO we must conclude he is either an idiot on a scale that eclipses anything you could say about the previous occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania, or he is a lying duplicitious Socialist who JUST wanted Power....

Its really your choice.�
theXL400





So explain to me how this works... The President writes the legislation and Congress votes on it?

Maybe links to a few news articles would help me understand, if you would be so kind.”

“XL, if before this HC is done and you may need some HC , I'll send you Dr. Conrad Murray's number.

Tilt is selling snake oil, 15% discount, if you call within the next 22 1/2 seconds you'll get a free Grady and some of his loveable nuts. We can't do this all day.”

“Vile did you just ask for references that the Prezbo wanted the bill orginally passed before the recess? Honestly did you say you want reference documents for this? Have you not seen any news since. Oh May?”

“Well we can close this thread. The democrat socialists have changed terminology to health INSURANCE reform. Lol demonize health isurers in accordance with Saul Alinski's best”

“'The President writes the legislation and Congress votes on it?'.

Try, the HC companies write the bills and Congress gets paid to vote them in.”