ecOnOmic Stimulush

“On GDP day, jobs still hog the spotlight

The official unemployment rate is 9.8 percent and climbing. Most forecasters, and the White House, expect it to crest somewhere over 10 percent. It likely will hang there for some time -- maybe more than a year -- for a couple of reasons.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2009/10/its_gdp_day_but_unemployment_s.html?hpid=moreheadlines”

“The unemployment rate has almost DOUBLED under Obama,.......

Tell the truth now!

Our current unemployment is a result of.....

What he said...

"All I'm hearing is a lot of squealing from you boys because America is turning a corner and putting the failure of wrought by conservative ideology behind it."”

“Ten more( five down and five back up) years until we see the real estate prices at this level again.”

“HPD - exactly - conservative ideology really screwed things up. Or are you guys still whining and shirking responsibility on that one.

It was a secret liberal plot right?”

“Obama has conservative ideology?

Oh, that's right. We're still attributing all of Obama's actions and inactions to Bush.

Please tell me when we've left that phase of his governance.”

“No one is saying all our troubles will be over and that we'll soon be back to Clintonesque levels of success. America was really screwed and there's a lot more work to be done. Economic growth will likely not be as strong as this again for a while, but it is a positive thing that the recession is over. Only someone who genuinely wants America to fail would say otherwise.”

“So what were you saying for the last 8 years?”

“Only someone who genuinely wants America to fail would say otherwise.

.....and someone who chooses to ignore recent history because of blind faith in a failed ideology that put our economy in the crapper.”

“HPD you have to remember Y2's home country is slowly descending into the Chaos that followed the loss of the Roman Empire.

Most Brits could care less about anything but picking the carcass clean before they jet off to Switzerland to enjoy their "one time only" Plans”

“It was under Obama that the unemployment numbers tanked.”

“Let's not forget that XL's home state was founded on criminal enterprise by criminals.”

“All the cute fantasy and wishful thinking aside, "failed" (lol) capitalism is what drives us and my guess is it always will.”

“REALLY? Texas was founded on criminal enterprise?”

““Let's not forget that XL's home state was founded on criminal enterprise by criminals.”

Chicken fvckers?”

““It was under Obama that the unemployment numbers tanked.

You really are a silly somebody.

This recession began about a year and a half ago.

Capitalism is the way to go, but it must be properly managed or it will get out of control and eat us.”

“the unemployment #s tanked under Obama, regardless of when any recession began.

"Capitalism" has "failed" BECAUSE of infused socialism. We haven't seen capitalism at work in 80 years. We saw then that overreacting to market corrections with socialism only creates and prolongs economic despair.”

“�Economy grows in 3Q, signals end of recession

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/29/AR2009102900196.html?hpid=topnews�
Y2
8:11:09 AM
10/29/09




The Washington Post, the house organ of the national Democratic Party.”

“Unemployment is ALWAYS a lagging indicator. It lags going into a recession and lags coming out.

What did you think, the problems would be solved by Jan 31. Couple of quarters isn't that long in economic terms.

Oh that's right, you CAN'T accept there may have been degree of success in this because you'd have to question your ideology again.”

“WTF did you espect Obama to do, travel back in time and change failed policy?

The unemployment was coming down the road no matter who got elected last year.

"with socialism" ???
Ha ha ha, you still trying to sell that snake oil?”

“No Lusho...we are the people WARNING about the Snake Oil of Socialisim.”

“I agree Y2 (I'm sure HighPlainsDoucher is thrilled I'm judging your post) about the lagging effects of the Bush admin. But at the same time Obama and his cronies in Congress have full control of the political reins and can pretty much do whatever they want with no need for the republican vote. Yet, still they stagnate.

It must be very disappointing for those who voted for Hope and Change to have yet another do nothing leader.”

“Um Nigal, lets not forget the Government under Bush was more or less a moderate version of Liberal until the last two years of Bush then it went TOTALLY left (Congress that is).”

“Well we'll see Nigal. There is a question of the filibuster blocking the big legislation.

But there are Democrats at fault here too. There's a lot of self-interest in congress. There's going to be some horse-trading going on to secure that health care vote. I'm sure Lieberman is working out what he can get from this.

I think we're seeing a disturbing insight into how money owns congress on both sides.”

“I think we're seeing a disturbing insight into how money owns congress on both sides.

The crux of the problem is the unwillingness of the party in charge to recognize it as bad when they are the ones taking their turn at the trough. Haliburton is fine for republican voters as is Acorn is fine for democrat voters. We may be taking turns getting fvcked but we're all getting fvcked.

Frubals for recognizing the some democrats as the problem.”

“The thing is, you can go back through these threads and find many complaints of excess spending on Bush's part, as it related to GDP, yet Obama did it many times over and they praise him.

He is doing MORE of what they complained Bush was supposedly doing wrong, but now it's seen as a good thing?”

“The conomy shows signs of recovery and all the right can do is get pissed off.

"It's not enough."

"It's not for real."

"Obama's a jerk."

Quite sad, really. This is the whole IRONY here, is that when they shoulda been pissed off, they were completely complacent, and now that failed policy from the past decade has come home to roost, all they can do is blame the guy in charge. Bound to happen, so no surprise there. One thing about Republicans: they're utterly predictable. Stay the course!”

“Yeah Nigal - I think most people are aware that Congress is a mess. But taking that on would mean shelving everything else - and frankly, given the issues we face, tackling those has to be first on the agenda.

I think we will see a reform of congress, but it'll be later, maybe even not before Obama's second term and it can still be easily derailed.”

“Obama's second term. LOL!!!!!!!”

““The thing is, you can go back through these threads and find many complaints of excess spending on Bush's part, as it related to GDP, yet Obama did it many times over and they praise him.

He is doing MORE of what they complained Bush was supposedly doing wrong, but now it's seen as a good thing?”
HighPlainsDrifter
7:28:14 AM
10/29/09

This kinda gets at the heart of the difference between pragmatism and ideology.

If you're a pragmatist you can see that the current deficits have come about as a result of the downturn (loss of revenues) and the collapse of the global financial system. Whether you agree with the policy or not you should at least be able to see the difference between deficits run up in order to attempt to address and economic crisis - and those run up on the back of a 'starve the beast' policy, while implementing tax cuts to the rich, following a period of surpluses, and increased by vast spending on an unnecessary preemptive war. You may also be able to see the argument that reducing spending as a country reaches its lowest ebb may stall the recovery.

If you're driven purely by ideology deficits are deficits are deficits no matter what the circumstances.
last edited: 10/29/09 7:41:21 AM”

“If you have common sense, you see that deficits came about because we spend more money than we make. Spending more money than you make by borrowing money from your enemy is NEVER a good policy, no matter how you slice it. It was wrong when Bush did it, and it's wrong now that Obama is doing it on steroids.”

“for the record, I've always been against that - with Bush too. What happened in our discussions is that the question of whether we should spend on the military came up. I did and do believe military spending is justified. I believe we should have offset that spending (by several magnitudes) by spending less in other areas.

On that note, I now believe the war was illegal, but not because Bush declared it, but because Congress paid for it without authorizing it.”

“Exclusive Excerpt: Fannie and Freddie’s Starring Role in the Housing Debacle

by Charles Gasparino

Despite the few voices of caution, risk and leverage had become a national fixation, embraced both on Wall Street and in government. The SEC and the Fed, the main regulators in charge of monitoring the buildup of risky assets on the banks’ books, together with the rating agencies, were the modern-day equivalents of Nero fiddling as Rome burned.The fire in this case was the massive and rapid buildup of mortgage debt on the balance sheets of the banks; by 2006 it was approaching $1 trillion and heading higher without so much as a peep from the traditional watchdogs.





Still, the risk taking and leverage went beyond the brokerage houses and the banks. The GSEs, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, were in the game as well. By now, Fannie and Freddie had fully and completely conceded their original mandates to the whims of the Washington political class, which demanded “affordable” housing for all, even those who couldn’t afford it. The politicians were giddy with Fannie and Freddie’s conversion from staid mortgage banks to subprime lenders that would make Angelo Mozilo, the CEO of the largest subprime lender in the markets, Countrywide Financial, envious.

It was an evolution that took years in the making. As HUD secretary, Andrew Cuomo boasted in one report in the late 1990s that the new mandates he was imposing on Fannie and Freddie to ramp up subprime lending “could be of significant benefit to lower-income families, minorities, and families living in underserved areas.””

“Strat - man up and accept some accountability d00d. Stop making excuses.”

“I did and do believe military spending is justified.

Not when I argued with you - you were parroting salebored's neo-isolationist claptrap.”

“hmmm, lookie here ...

“key phrase in the article: "fueled by government-supported spending on cars and homes."


That's not a recovery! LOL! That's welfare. That money is already GONE. Is this The Onion?”
HighPlainsDrifter
6:13:46 AM
10/29/09

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/reuters/2009/10/29/2009-10-29T133252Z_01_N29237920_RTRIDST_0_USA-ECONOMY-GDP-SNAP-ANALYSIS.html

Gross domestic product grew at a 3.5 percent annual rate, beating the consensus forecast for a 3.3 percent pace. But two of the biggest contributors -- spending on durable goods and residential investment -- received substantial boosts from Washington's emergency rescue efforts.

"Sure, the economy's standing up on its own legs again, but for how long once the government stimulus starts to fade?" said Chris Rupkey, an economist with Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi in New York. "That's the million dollar question for the nation's unemployed -- all 15.1 million of them sitting idle, through no fault of their own."”

“Mutt, please provide a quote because I do not believe you are correct.”

“HPD - what is a stimulus supposed to be? How does it work, at least in theory, we know you won't agree with the application?”

“A stimulus is SUPPOSED to be a way to spur on the economy by diverting funds from some people, and giving it to others.

The problem (and in here also lies the supposed strategy) is that it only temporarily boosts certain areas. As the economist agrees with me in the article (that I doubt you read in that short of time), that only boosts certain numbers for a temporary time. It artificially inflates the indicators. Meanwhile, it saps resources from other, more productive areas, such as businesses where goods that are actually desired are being produced.

It's a horrid concept of a theory, and is done by politicians to artificially inflate their own self-worth.”

“Yeah Nigal - I think most people are aware that Congress is a mess. But taking that on would mean shelving everything else - and frankly, given the issues we face, tackling those has to be first on the agenda.

I think we will see a reform of congress, but it'll be later, maybe even not before Obama's second term and it can still be easily derailed.�


The only issue we face that can�t (and never should) wait is taking care of our troops.

I agree that we will see some sort of reform and I hope it�s sooner than later. The problem is that when people clamor for that sort of reform they�re labeled as brainwashed, butt-hurt conservative racists. (at least the current crop is; the Tea Partiers) I also agree that the effort to derail it will be like nothing we�ve ever seen before.”

“I didn't read it, no. But I have read stories ahead of the release of the data which said the same thing.

And that's the big question, whether growth will be sustained. Too early to say perhaps, though I said it's a figure unlikely to be repeated.

It IS undeniably a more positive sign for the economy though.

And lets face it - you'd have an excuse for a negative spin on this however good the figures were.

Like I said, the stimulus can't work because you may have to question your ideology, so there will always be an excuse as to why it hasn't.”

“That's why the US needs to claim bankruptcy NOW and sell off the F-22 to the Taliban and the default swaps to AlQaeda. We could send all of our heroine addicts to Afghaniscam and our gun addicts to Georgia in time for next May Day.”

“So thinking about it, what HPD is saying is that he's unable to give a dispassionate verdict on whether the stimulus is working or not because it will always be a failure, no matter what happens, because it is a government program.”

“y2's government has been so great, he's had to flee the country to find work.”

“Good news for America = Bad news for Republicans.”

“good morning Violin.”

“The only issue we face that can�t (and never should) wait is taking care of our troops.

I agree that we will see some sort of reform and I hope it�s sooner than later. The problem is that when people clamor for that sort of reform they�re labeled as brainwashed, butt-hurt conservative racists. (at least the current crop is; the Tea Partiers) I also agree that the effort to derail it will be like nothing we�ve ever seen before.”
Nonconformist
8:55:51 AM
10/29/09

These people are upset that policies aren't going their way. They are little temper tantrums.

They are the ones trying to drum it up as some sort of maoist marxist stalinist hitler-like attack on their freedoms.

Trouble is that there's no basis in reality for that.

Perhaps if they spent more time explaining why their vision is better for America then they wouldn't face such deserved derision.”

“As to troops, we're clearly waiting for the outcome of the runoff in Afghanistan. The right decision in my book because if we don't get the political support we may as well start withdrawals now.”