ecOnOmic Stimulush

“The freedoms to attribute to this country are no longer up for debate.”

“Pure projection as always, lol. (as well as proving my point)
last edited: 10/29/09 10:48:13 AM”

“Y2, couple things...In this country dissent is supposed to be accepted by The Law, its our Constitution that was developed originally to protect us from the Failure of the Royalty system.

Second BOY HIDEY I am glad in 1940 political 'support" did not play a part in our involvement in the initial stages of THAT War.”

“REALLY? Texas was founded on criminal enterprise?”
theXL400
7:52:28 AM
10/29/09

I was talkin' about the Great Slave State Of Georgia, Sweet Pea.”

“we're clearly waiting for the outcome of the runoff in Afghanistan.

oh brother”

“No one is saying they can't oppose XL. But the trouble is they're overplaying their hand in that their accusations are too wild and just not true.

They scream this and that accusation and eventually people stop taking them seriously and the derision starts.”

““we're clearly waiting for the outcome of the runoff in Afghanistan.

oh brother”
Mutt
10:50:45 AM
10/29/09

Yes Mutt.... p o l i t i c s .... something beyond your toy soldiers.”

“Y2..Toy Soldiers? So Birch is a TOY soldier to you?

WOW..that ought to be a fun hike.”

“Y2 - don't get me wrong, I know that's what has been said by the Obama admin.”

“ok, now think about this XL.

Was Y2:

A) attacking all members of the armed forced as 'toy soldiers'.

B) suggesting Mutt is an individual with a child-like fascination with military solutions to the exclusion of the bigger picture.

C) [include any insulting additions directed at Y2 here]

Come on, which do you think?
last edited: 10/29/09 11:14:36 AM”

“Come on Mutt, if you think Obama and his team are sitting there wringing their hands with indecision over what to do in Afghanistan then you're a fool. I think perhaps you need to step away from the conservative blogosphere if that is your view.

This is not just a review of tactics, but a review of the broader strategy.”

“wringing their hands with indecision

I've been saying for MONTHS that they've avoided it. Only now after tremendous publicity and political pressure are they trying to throw something together. The "wait until the runoff" thing was merely to buy time.
last edited: 10/29/09 11:22:13 AM”

“Why are they delaying it? What does that get them? Especially after already committing 20k plus more troops soon after taking office?

There's just no logic in your argument at all.
last edited: 10/29/09 11:29:28 AM”

“There's logic in y2's namecalling? LOL”

“If after 9/11 a little hand wringing and applying some logic may have kept us from letting the military industrial complex from doing what the end of the Cold War couldn't.”

“We're off topic, Y2. If you're truly curious for my answers, post in the Pakistan thread.”

“Ah, I'm not.”

“http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMNoef6xDenBbHWO0Im6rIjDmAgAD9BKQRQ00


Woops!

STIMULUS WATCH: Stimulus jobs overstated by 1,000s

An early progress report on President Barack Obama's economic recovery plan overstates by thousands the number of jobs created or saved through the stimulus program, a mistake that White House officials promise will be corrected in future reports.”

“we paid $24,000 per car

http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/28/autos/clunkers_analysis/index.htm”

“Economy grows in 3Q, signals end of recession :o)”

“y2, did you ever read that other article that I posted that explains why your "signaling end of recession" is wrong? No?”

“Yep. Answered that further up.

Economy grows in 3Q, signals end of recession”

“did you read the part where I said you were unable to judge whether this was a good thing or not as you need it to fail so you don't have to question your ideology?

How about the part where I said you can't really judge if the stimulus has been a success as it will ALWAYS be a failure to you because it was a government action?”

“And I know it's probably coming across as what you see as a personal attack, but there is a wider issue here.

When people paint themselves into ideological corners it makes it impossible to judge events in a pragmatic and to try to judge them even a remotely dispassionate way.”

“or maybe I ascribe concrete objective reasons, such as putting us further in debt (a standard that you used to believe in), or how it affects employment, or, and here is the biggest gauge, how it either adds or removes to our freedoms, something you never believed in)”

“Yep - you're a market fundamentalist.

Just as the committed communist turns to Marx for all his or her solutions, you turn to the market. Just as the communists painted themselves into a corner and failed so have the market fundamentalists.

Both refuse to accept reality because it contradicts with their ideology. Both are doomed to fail in the long run by their refusal to adapt their 'set-in-stone' views. Of I guess as you said above, your 'concrete objective reasons'.”

“ironic you accusing me of failing to see reality on the economic stimulus thread

When people paint themselves into ideological corners it makes it impossible to judge events in a pragmatic and to try to judge them even a remotely dispassionate way.”
Y2
4:50:49 PM
10/29/09

Both refuse to accept reality because it contradicts with their ideology. Both are doomed to fail in the long run by their refusal to adapt their 'set-in-stone' views. Of I guess as you said above, your 'concrete objective reasons'.
Y2
8:17:54 PM
10/29/09

---
Wait for it ... pay attention to the date here ...

“Yep - but they may only represent short-term value as the policy makes don't want to seem to tackle the underlying problems.

I find it funny that they seem to want to borrow and spend their way out of a crunch built on too much borrowing and spending.
last edited: 1/30/08 11:39:03 AM”
Y2
11:30:20 AM
1/30/08”

“ah, thought so. Took a little finding but here we go.

We were talking about the original 'stimulus' handout.

The point was that handing out free cash wasn't going to solve the underlying problems.

So having helped to shift the balance of power to the ultra rich they are now scrambling to hand out $800. That'll solve the fundamental problem here ..... obviously.

Having ignored the plight of most of the population for so long, suddenly their stock portfolios are at risk so the President and congress suddenly decide they can work together.”
Y2
3:52:59 PM
1/19/08

The point was that this was happening in isolation. That just handing out $800 wasn't the answer.

Now, I'm sure you can go find a thread in fall of that year where I'm supporting the bank bailout. I did.

And this is where you just don't get it do you. Circumstances change. We went from a stumbling economy to the collapse of the global financial system. Basically things got a lot worse.

And this stimulus is coming with wider reforms, with 'change'. Healthcare reform being one, energy policy being another. Much of the spending is going on infrastructure and education, not just giving free cash away. Sure there's elements of that though, but there's certainly a wider plan.


Who is this Sarge guy btw?

“If the economy was going downhill as much as the libbies have said, each week, since Bush took office, we'd be standing in line for toilet paper by now.

Isn't it the libbies who are adamant against fear-mongoring?”
Sarge
8:40:18 AM
1/22/08

Yeah, those damn liberals and their complaining huh.”

“And I'll help you out some more.

There's also been a break-down in proper risk-mangement in the scramble to make more money. Wall Street has to take a good deal of responsibility for this, as does the lack of interest from at Government level - Greenspan repeatedly ignored the warnings that this was going to happen and did nothing.

I don't think the people should be hlped to be honest. It's a bitter pill, but helping them out now does not solve the longer-term problems.”
Y2
11:46:26 AM
1/30/08

At the time I didn't think we should do too much, but then the point of systemic failure arrived.

We got there, it failed, the system broke and was going to collapse until governments all over the world stepping in.”

““If the economy was going downhill as much as the libbies have said, each week, since Bush took office, we'd be standing in line for toilet paper by now.

Isn't it the libbies who are adamant against fear-mongoring?”
Sarge
8:40:18 AM
1/22/08

Um ... the economy never got that bad. Were you standing in line for toilet paper? I think you misread what I wrote. The point was every since Bush took office, the libs and media said each week things were getting worse. At that pace, we'd be a 3rd world country by now. We never became that under Bush.”

“We would have done had we not propped up the financial system. They were all going down.

Even Goldman, what is it they're claiming now, a $20bn hedge. What's that worth if everything else goes down.

Or are we pretending that wasn't going to happen?”

“so if you believe that y2, and things ARE so much worse than they were under Bush, why are you claiming everything is going to be ok?”

“Half of the half glass of water has evaporated while yawl empty-full it.”

“I'm not HPD. I'm saying we're getting positive signs. Some stability in financial sector. A slowing of the job losses, a return to growth, stock market recovery.

It's a long process turning around the mess that was created, we're seeing the stats for only the second quarter in now.”

“Fair enough. So what has changed about how everything works in our government that you feel we are heading down the right road? I don't mean next year, I'm talking about 5 years, 10 years...”

“I am hearing that the "rebound" will be significantly miniscule compared to the Reagan Revolution....but hey, the libbies will have more victims to cater to (LOL).”

“That we're approaching the problems with a sense of realism rather than an ideology.”

“Ok, but what specifically has changed for the long-term betterment of the country?”

“meanwhile, I am going to eat some betterment gum”

“Well HPD..in Y2's opinion we are starting down that slippery slope of socialisim that made his Mother Country the gay boy prison #&%!$ of the third world.

its not that things will get better but at least the Poor Pathetic Brits will have someone in the same plight.”

“The reforms of healthcare are essential to keep America competitive.

Energy policy that will start to turn us away from a reliance on a commodity we don't have enough of. Be interesting to see how Kerry-Boxer comes out.

An investment and focus on education.

Increased financial regulation dependent on what legislation emerges, we're already seeing the campaign against that.

A broader realization that we have to tackle the problems of America as a whole and not just look after a tiny number of people in the hope that things will 'trickle down'.

The realization that the markets are the source of our future prosperity but that there are no perfect markets out there.

But it's early days yet. It'll be interesting to see what happens when healthcare reform is passed.

How about you HPD - what has you convinced that the path being taking is not right for America?”

“You have only mentioned "realizations" and "hopes" and "dreams". I am asking you, what HAS changed?

How about you HPD - what has you convinced that the path being taking is not right for America?

Solutions that are proven to not work, and not effort to expand freedom rather than impede it.”

“Put it another way, you are claiming things ARE changing, yet, you only list things on a todo list. How could things be changing in reality if these things aren't checked off yet?”

“No - I've referred to specific things going on now that have either taken place or are in the direct process of taking place. Healthcare reform should come in the next few weeks, then, from what I hear, Energy policy will come soon after with one version of legislation likely to be passed in early 2010.

Schools are already receiving investment as part of the the stimulus.

Various forms of legislation is currently being considered in terms of regulation of all areas of finance from banking to commodities and commodity derivatives.

These things alone are turning us away from the fundamentalist approach that helped bring down the economy.”

“How about you HPD - what has you convinced that the path being taking is not right for America?”
Y2
7:54:13 AM
10/30/09

Now you know I suggest that you never put forward any idea of your own, that you somehow think you're above that and that you just like to tear down the views of others.

Lets hear you views with some specifics.”

“No - I've referred to specific things going on now that have either taken place or are in the direct process of taking place. Healthcare reform should come in the next few weeks, then, from what I hear, Energy policy will come soon after with one version of legislation likely to be passed in early 2010.

Schools are already receiving investment as part of the the stimulus.

Various forms of legislation is currently being considered in terms of regulation of all areas of finance from banking to commodities and commodity derivatives.


Ok, let me ask this again.

“Put it another way, you are claiming things ARE changing, yet, you only list things on a todo list. How could things be changing in reality if these things aren't checked off yet?””

“What "idea of your own" have you put forward, Y2?”

“�The reforms of healthcare are essential to keep America competitive.

Energy policy that will start to turn us away from a reliance on a commodity we don't have enough of. Be interesting to see how Kerry-Boxer comes out.

Y2 as usual misses the point that we have MORE THAN ENOUGH Domestic Fuel Supplies in shale, and offshore to supply all our needs. The Problem is we can't drill here and drill now...if you want we can provide references.

An investment and focus on education.

The increasingly incompetent Department of Education was created under the similarly incompetent JIMUH CATAH since that time TRILLIONS have been spent to "improve educatino" the only result is that education has dropped faster than a school boy's pants at Buckingham Palace.

Y2 thats like saying, "What WE NEED is more openings in the Titanic's Hull to let water out."

Increased financial regulation dependent on what legislation emerges, we're already seeing the campaign against that.

Regulation...with the concident control by "special members of Congress" Like the SLOBBERING Barney Frank and Chris Dodd? You mean so that we can put the people in MORE control of screwing up MORE of the Finanical Industry?


A broader realization that we have to tackle the problems of America as a whole and not just look after a tiny number of people in the hope that things will 'trickle down'.

No we are starting to see the TRICKLE UP of Socialisim as more and more people join the dependency class.

The realization that the markets are the source of our future prosperity but that there are no perfect markets out there.

So we will turn the Control of the Market over to the wizards who run the POST OFFICE? AMTRAK? and MEDICARE?

Please tell me one of those that even is close to success.

But it's early days yet. It'll be interesting to see what happens when healthcare reform is passed.

ANSWER...total destruction of the Health Care Industry.

How about you HPD - what has you convinced that the path being taking is not right for America?�

JUST about everthing you have written is Socialist Pie in the Sky crap that most of the non Academia people see is CRAP, like pretty much everything. Y2 if you like everything you just wrote...why don't you still live in England?


Y2
7:54:13 AM
10/30/09”

“So, using your earlier argument, have things changed or haven't they? Or are they just ideas?

I guess it's no surprise that we differ.
last edited: 10/30/09 8:43:51 AM”