Which state already has "death panels?" Hmmm ...

“The Texas Advance Directives Act (1999), also known as the Texas Futile Care Law, describes certain provisions that are now Chapter 166 of the Texas Health & Safety Code. Controversy over these provisions mainly centers on Section 166.046, Subsection (e), which allows a health care facility to discontinue life-sustaining treatment against the wishes of the patient or guardian ten days after giving written notice if the continuation of life-sustaining treatment is considered medically inappropriate by the treating medical team.

The law was signed by George W. Bush, when he was governor of Texas.”

“So that law pertains to government run health-care facilities?”

“Where are your Tea Baggers now, senor?”

“So there really are going to be "death panels" in our new government run healthcare system and that's okay because Texas has them? Is that what you're saying?”

“Jeeze, how many in Mexico North will prattle on about the sanctity of human life when it comes to the abortion debate? From the state that by FAR outleads any other state in executions AND wants to take the old peeps and convalescents and bury them in a snowbank? They need to change their state slogan to: Texas, where life is cheap.
last edited: 10/14/09 7:51:17 AM”

“So there really are going to be "death panels" in our new government run healthcare system and that's okay because Texas has them?

NO

The Obama administration is not proposing "death panels"............in spite of what insane mother#&%!$ers like Glenn Beckkk say.

But it sure is curious that the right's hero, Dubya, signed such legislation into law.”

“Are there snowbanks in Texas? Let me guess: climate change?”

“So Dubya signed for government run death panels?”

“Ahhh, the ole playbook...”

“So there really are going to be "death panels" in our new government run healthcare system and that's okay because Texas has them?

NO

The Obama administration is not proposing "death panels"............in spite of what insane mother#&%!$ers like Glenn Beckkk say.

MarkO

You seem pretty sure. What healthcare plan are you reading, MarkO? Will you post it for us?”

“I don't run errands for fools.”

“Uh huh....thought so.”

“hm, wouldn't the continued suggestion of something as absurd as Obama's nonexistent death panels be "dealing in extremes"?

But I thought if we continue to deal in extremes---on BOTH sides - we will not move forward.

uh huh... thought so”

“Yup.........

I think that extremist should go soak his head.

Perhaps then the communists, marxists and death panelists would stop haunting his every waking hour.............not to mention the nightmares about communists, etc.”

“Speaking of extremists, where's that extremely irritating sack, Geobeet?

He comes in here, takes a dump, and then.................POOP!!

I mean....................POOF!!”

“Pepsifraudmosa, show me (or explain in your own words) where I deal or have ever dealt in extremes on this topic.

Then show me (or explain in your own words) where I continue to suggest the existance of "Obama's nonexistent death panels."

Uh huh.....thought so.

Perhaps you didn't understand my original question regarding someone else posting about "death panels." It's okay if you didn't.”

“Of course I could be wrong and your comments are directed towards the person who started the thread and you're just honoring me by using my words.”

“can anybody tell me, does the law in Texas pertain to government run health-care facilities?”

“ah, apologies, Conformist, you didn't actually say there were death panels (you don't actually say much of anything)... you simply derided MarkO for his unwillingness to give you the verbiage that proves there aren't death panels. Of course, it's impossible to prove a negative, but I'm sure you already knew that, smart guy that you are.”

“"The world is not flat."

It's impossible to prove that? Hmmm...”

“You can have a contradictory positive that would prove the negative simply because both positives couldn't exist at once. But you can't prove a negative on its own. Tell me what sort of positive could logically eliminate the possibility of death panels.”

“Yawl better hope they, whoever they are, come up with some greatly needed health for your beggar selves.”

“besides... who says the world isn't flat? All these egghead "scientists" and "astronomers"... and we ALL know that science has a liberal slant.”

“The (#@(*&%$!)%*# quite often (de)rides my ass.

He's always wanting me to "show him" something.

And where TF is Geobeet?”

“So Geo got spanked again.”

“Lick it up.
Lick it up.

Ohhh.
Oh.
Ohhh.

”

“You can have a contradictory positive that would prove the negative simply because both positives couldn't exist at once.

for those that are thick, he's saying you can prove the world isnt flat, by proving that it is round

the concept that you cant prove a negative is very important in our society. that is why in a court of law, the prosecution has to PROVE the defendant is guilty. the defense DOES NOT have to prove innocence, only produce reasonable doubt.

it is also why theists can get away with saying "you cannot prove there is no god"”

“Elderly man kills robber in his home

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20091013/NEWS/91013005/Elderly+man+kills+robber+in+his+home

BREWTON - Police say an elderly man shot and killed a masked robber who broke into his Escambia County home.


Escambia County Sheriff Grover Smith says the man and his wife were in bed early Tuesday morning when the suspect kicked in the door of their home. Smith says the 81-year-old man got his pistol from the bedside table and shot 35-year-old Jeremy Paul McCall in the head.


Smith says McCall had been released from a Nebraska jail two days before he was killed. It was not immediately clear why he was in jail.


Smith says he doesn't believe charges will be brought against the elderly man, who he declined to identify. The sheriff says the man "acted in self-defense."”

““You can have a contradictory positive that would prove the negative ..."

The impossible made possible. ... it's magic!”

“There are laws and procedures that work that way almost everywhere. Right now it works this way - certain procedures are necessary to keep a person alive for a few more days. The insurance company says they refuse to pay for the procedures because they will only prolong the hospitalization a few more days before death. The hospital then is faced with losing money and diverting time to keep someone alive - often in a semi-comatose state - resuscitating them when their heart stops.

Pretty much everywhere they have procedures for over-ruling the patients' wishes. In most states there are ways to over-rule te guardian or healthcare proxy. In some places they procedures are more orderly in others they are less.

Some doctors use comfort care as a loop hole sometimes with the patient's agreement, sometimes without. If you write an order to provide as much narcotics as needed to control pain, disregarding potential lethality - it is not usually euthanasia by law. But it does kill people.”

“lol, Sarge, I liked you a lot more when you were faking your own death to see who'd leave positive comments about you”

“I liked you more when you didn't have to resort to uninformed personal comments instead of logic.”

“awww... you liked me? Shucks!”

“Actually I would think this one is easy to prove. Here's an example:

Government Healthcare Bill A
1) "free" healthcare paid for by the citizens
2) Two-for-Tuesdays on aspirin
3) If your doctor is a hot chick, you have to pay more for your free care
4) Breast enlargements are free, breast reductions are not free
5) No death panels



Government Healthcare Bill B
1) "free" healthcare paid for by the citizens
2) Two-for-Tuesdays on aspirin
3) If your doctor is a hot chick, you have to pay more for your free care
4) Breast enlargements are free, breast reductions are not free
5) Yes, we have death panels

Okay, does program A have death panels? Can you prove it? What about program B?”

“so where in the reform are death panels mentioned? Does it need specific verbiage outlining that there are absolutely NO death panels for you to be satisfied?”

“I mean, Obama has expressly said that the death panels are fictitious, as has anyone else with half a brain. There's no verbiage anywhere stating contrary, and it would utterly defy logic... do you really need more? Do you believe the world is flat because you haven't yet been up in a spaceship to see its curve too?”

“Satisfied? What makes you think I have a need to be satisfied about it?

Wouldn't you like to know exactly what's in it no matter what "it" is? Or aren't you paying for it?”

“Anarchist.

(I don't think it means what you think it means.)”

“not a single bill is or ever has been passed in which you or I or any of us yahoos know exactly what's in it. Welcome to the broken world of American politics”

“lol, this coming from the most conforming nonconformist”

“This is where non tell you to buck up like his family did because REAL men don't need no end-of-life counseling...”

“there it is again! end of life counseling! death panel! death panel! poor poor Trigg!”

“Remind me again: in what ways am I a "conforming nonconformist"? (No fair making things up---we need examples.....in your own words, of course.)


FYI for those that are thick:

–noun
1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism.
2. a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed.
3.a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom.”

“This is where rosey has another emotion-driven childish meltdown and makes sure he has a firm grip on his Junior Woodchuck Handy Dandy pocketknife/can opener/nail clipper/tweezer in case he has to get medievel on someone's can of Ravioli.”

“The proposals in the Obama policy are not the same as those seen in Texas. It's simply counciling concerning a patient's end of life care so they and their family can make an informed decision. In the end it is their choice. Any good hospice worth it's salt already does this. The one I work at does it. This counciling saves the American tax payers 2-4 billion dollars a year.”

“You are wonderful, Nigal.”

“Actually non, when it comes to pasta in a can, I'm more of a spaghetti-os kind of guy. Oh, and I open those with my bare hands.

Thanks for the first-person perspective, Nigal.”

“I have seen the outcome of both instances where patients have chosen to not undergo extensive treatment to stave off the inevitable and those who choose to continue the fight. The latter often lead to a horrible amount of needless suffering. I never judge the choices they make but I do make personal observations and have come to the conclusion that there are far worse things than death.”

“Nigal I agree wholeheartedly. Sadly it is not up to the "industry" to determine, it is a personal choice.

Like you I have seen people choose their time to die. However you are sadly incorrect about this administraion's plan. Advisors from Robert B REIIIICh on down to Rahm Emanuel are frequently quoted as advocating other entities (than the individual) determining when "end of life" will come.

This administration has already shown a propensity to go from "advising" to mandating what they want (ref the bail outs and the related controls on Pay).

I must disagree with the government determination of "life quality" over personal choice. Further I find it totally abhorrent that any health care provider would consider the violation of the "Do No Harm" oath in this manner.

My question has always been,"Who will make the final call?"

Would you be angered if you had a loved one in a severe car wreck and later found out that due to the extent of injuries the paramendics just 'managed the pain" while the patient crossed rainbow bridge?”

“We bought off the Sunnis in Iraq, for a while, and we can buy out the grim reaper for a while, but the expense of buying off the inevitable is unsustainable.”